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eligal
Noobie
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: HB]
#5313632 - 02/18/06 03:13 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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we were born to kill. how can we ever stop?
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
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minesstudent
Who knows?
Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 400
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: eligal]
#5313813 - 02/18/06 04:06 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Cold War, in my opinion, didn't go nucular(sp?) because of the notion of Mutually Assured Distruction. Pretty much meaning that if you nuke me I'm going to nuke you to hell. Kept people from using them. Nowadays with religous fanatics who view death as an honor, MAD doesn't factor in there desision. Kind of scary to me. And if the Apocolypse starts over cartoons I'm going to be extremely pissed of. Peace
-------------------- "The universe is the way it is because if it wasn't we wouldn't be here to talk about it"
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: minesstudent]
#5313835 - 02/18/06 04:13 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jeez Wic I hope you are wrong! We're not anywhere near so trigger happy over here. Did you know that..."we" Don't use d.u shells anymore (at least as artillary weapons) because Italy and France(?) pressurised us to stop. Italian soldiers were developing lukemia! So we quietly stopped. Ofcourse official statements (of which there was probably only one) state that we have stopped but do not give a reason.
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
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gregorio
Too Damn Old
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,837
Loc: Classified
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: minesstudent]
#5313887 - 02/18/06 04:35 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
minesstudent said: Nowadays with religous fanatics who view death as an honor, MAD doesn't factor in there desision.
That is the scary part of the who;e thing which is precisely way they should prevented from obtaining them at all costs.
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Demonichildren
unknown
Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 108
Loc: CA
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Silverwolf]
#5313888 - 02/18/06 04:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Damn that was exciting reading. Did the Americans have multiple warhead ICBM's? From what I have read and researched, American Polaris and Polaris 2 missles were single warhead. Looks like the Russian's would have won. Well the Russia's won the space race with the exception of the moon. Well thank god it didn't happen since Russia's nuclear missles were superior to American ones.
-------------------- questions of the unknown
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Simisu
taken by gravity
Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 5,435
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Demonichildren]
#5313960 - 02/18/06 05:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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i'm much more scared of france then iran
-------------------- Shrmery Visit & Support Free Spore Ring Earth Please help spread live Salvia Divinorum
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Simisu]
#5313978 - 02/18/06 05:18 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, the French are some sneaky bastards, with their napoleonist views and all.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 10 months, 13 days
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Asante]
#5314328 - 02/18/06 07:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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You know, I am an enthusiast about all of the following:
~The cold war ~Explosives ~Nuclear weaponry ~thermonuclear war
And yet the length of that article is still so intimidating that it seems to outweigh my curiosity
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,230
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Demonichildren]
#5315706 - 02/19/06 06:33 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Did the Americans have multiple warhead ICBM's?
Look up the MX missile, the LGM 118A which held 10 warheads of 300 kT (1.25 petajoule for geeks) each.
Quote:
Looks like the Russian's would have won.
Nobody would've won, not even Uganda The war indeed probably wasn't fought because of M.A.D, Mutually Assured Destruction. A good 1980s movie on the subject (featuring a virgin Internet) is "Wargames".
Basically the USSA does a first strike, and while the missiles are flying the USR launches theirs. The missiles cross eachother over the North Pole and half an hour later a nuclear holocaust (claiming 1-3 billion lives, it would not wipe out humanity) would unfold.
Quote:
Well thank god it didn't happen since Russia's nuclear missles were superior to American ones.
Actually, not exactly. When you want to hit a target it helps if your ICBMs actually hit them. The technology of the US rockets was better. The Russians, pragmatic as they are, simply screwed on a larger warhead so even while it near-missed its target it would still destroy it.
The biggest of all bombs was the Tsar Bomba
which had a power of 50 Mt, which literally is the explosive force of a hundred million large aircraft bombs, or five million times the explosive force of the Daisycutter, the largest conventional bomb ever.
It originally was intended to be packed in an uranium case which would make it a 100 Mt device, but the Russian scientists decided to use a Lead mantle for the test because the fallout otherwise would be catastrophic. The Tsar could render New York city as smooth as a salt lake, and destroy or heavily damage the population centers surrounding it.
It might have been a good thing the Russians unleashed that 10km/7 mile fireball, because it's apocalyptic size drove the point home that there would be none but losers in a full-scale nuclear war.
Movies that shaped public opinion durting the Cold War were:
Dr Strangelove The Day After and to a lesser extent Wargames
These three are mandatory downloads, and while you're at it grab the magnificent documentaries:
Trinity And Beyond (best documentary about nuclear weapons and tests) The Atomic Cafe (best documentary about the social climate of the early Cold War)
I feel that it is VERY important that people have knowledge about nuclear weapons, as extensive as possible, because knowledge among the population is the best way to prevent use of these monstrous weapons.
Most think of nuclear weapons in terms of blast, but it is important to realize especially with the bigger bombs that they are in essence heat weapons.
At 50 miles distance to the Tsar Bomba your clothes may catch fire and your synthetic sports sneakers get reduced to bubbling blobs of tar. In this condition you have to wait a full three minutes for the blast to arrive, and it may not even be lethal, but merely fan the flames. If you compare this to a conventional bomb which will knock you unconscious with the same blow that deals lethal injury it is clear that atomic bombs are an excessively cruel weapon even by warfare standards.
The only use I see for nuclear weapons is in outer space engineering. If you want a large comet crushed which will otherwise destroy the earth, the Tsar Bomba will deliver it's crushing blow in 1/10.000 of a second and save the earth.
Atomic bombs are just too big for this world, and this is especially true for the radiation pollution following in it's wake.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Asante]
#5320974 - 02/20/06 06:06 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Atoms in space? No way! The only concievably "good" nuclear missile is one full of waste we no longer produce heading for the heart of the sun!
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
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Boom
just a tester
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Asante]
#5320995 - 02/20/06 06:10 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've close enough to NYC that it'd be over quickly
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oDin
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 5,789
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Boom]
#5321842 - 02/20/06 09:20 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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hmm well my memories
i grew up in rural Wyoming. we were surrounded by minute man missile silos. they were underground. every 50 miles or so there was a guarded complex that was usually in the middle of nowhere. many times when rounding up cattle for the neighbors i would ride past a silo or complex on my horse. rumor had it that they could tell if a rabbit or tumbleweed crossed either of those places.
the USSR and eastern bloc were all evil enemies according to the US government and US culture at the time. it was always in the background. i can remember waking up with having had nightmares that we were about to be evaporated by atomics. many of the old timers i grew up around would say "if the Russians set off the missles I'm going to go park right by a silo to make sure my family and i die instantly". however the USSR wasn't all that accurate from what many said, so i believe their strategy was to pepper the areas that had US missiles in them, that scared me too. most of the US arsenal was in the rural west and mid west. when the USAF would drive out to work on the silos some men would guard the front gate.....a few times i found alot of beer cans right near where they parked...not sure if it was them,,,but makes you wonder
the Olympics was always a big time for the two sides to compete and show how good they were.
i remember when they began to decommission the silos, i was riding to town and saw them doing so...a smile crossed my face
i was happy when the cold war ender however it seems the Russians at least had some honor compared to our current enemies.
Edited by oDin (02/20/06 09:26 PM)
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Hanky_discontinued
ĦōłұĞħosŦ
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 6,080
Loc: Fatty Bread, fatty bread.
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Silverwolf]
#5321864 - 02/20/06 09:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silverwolf said: Atoms in space? No way! The only concievably "good" nuclear missile is one full of waste we no longer produce heading for the heart of the sun!
Good until it blows up just after launch, bury that stuff.
-------------------- Teragon said: Shine off you fucking twat! Liz said: I recently deleted my 37 gigs of horse porn so I have none to post Phumfeinz said: Jesus fucking Christ, put on your tin foil hat and climb in the microwave, dickhead.
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Hanky_discontinued]
#5327869 - 02/22/06 12:28 PM (18 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
madweed420 said:
Quote:
Silverwolf said: Atoms in space? No way! The only concievably "good" nuclear missile is one full of waste we no longer produce heading for the heart of the sun!
Good until it blows up just after launch, bury that stuff.
Sure we gonna be able to leave it buried for hundreds and thousands of years?
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
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mediman0078
Stilllooking.....
Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 1,379
Loc: Here, there, EVERYWHERE
Last seen: 18 years, 10 days
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Silverwolf]
#5328099 - 02/22/06 01:35 PM (18 years, 29 days ago) |
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I remember in 1989, when the pressure dropped on the possiblity of being vaporized. We had a few of those drills when I was young, but i remember my dad telling me that I might as well watch, since hiding under your desk would be about as useful as hiding in a cardboard box when the blast hit. My great grandmother had a big bomb shelter under her house that I went down into a few times. I remember thinking that it'd probably be worse to be stuck in there, dying from radiation, than to just be blown up. It was a spooky place to go in to anyhow... i don't think I'd have stayed down there for very long, even if there was fallout.
I DO think that some crazy fanatic shithead will eventually manage to sneak a nuke in somewhere and detonate it. I know that we have satellites (i used to work with SATCOM in the military) that can detect very small amounts of radioactive material, but there's even ways around that... consider the reactor shielding in a modern Nimitz class aircraft carrier. That effectively blocks out all radiation signatures emitted by the core within 20 ft. So it could be done. It'd be a very bulky thing to hide though, to shield a 5" sphere of hot uranium. I believe that WWIII would be almost immediately started after it happens though. You think what we've done since 9/11 is drastic? Wait 'till it's a body count in the hundreds of thousands.... the US will become one very pissed off maurader with a whole lot of angst, willing to roll over and destroy anything that even farts like a terrorist. No reconstruction, no liberation, no fucking mercy...
-------------------- ........someday I'll find it.
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Silverwolf
sandtrout
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1,108
Loc: Darkover
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: mediman0078]
#5346696 - 02/27/06 07:07 PM (18 years, 24 days ago) |
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A friend of my half-brother's was in The Royal Marines and gave me a "Noddy" suit (chemical and nuclear warfare protection garb) made of a kind of paper. We had a coal cellar in our semi-detached house on the outskirts of London about which as a teenager I fantasised as using to survive a nuclear war. I was never really happy about either the suit or my fantasies however and I remember the inner-sigh of relief I felt when one day I consigned both it and my fantasies about surviving a nuclear war to the dustbin ("of history").
S
-------------------- "Odrade read the word silently and then aloud. "Arafel." She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources. "Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,230
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Silverwolf]
#5854755 - 07/13/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Bumpety bump!
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician
Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Asante]
#5854772 - 07/13/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is a valid thread now, except perhaps the word "memories" should come out of the thread's title...
Perhaps "The realities of nuclear weapons" would be sufficient.
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syzygy
transdimensionalmarmot
Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 10
Loc: Ga
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: Microcosmatrix]
#5857157 - 07/14/06 06:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Great find Wiccan, I love nitty gritty details. Makes me think of T2: Judgement Day with John's mom at the playground fence, yelling at the top of her crazy lungs, busting that classic bodymelt pose before the shockwave fucks all.
As far as the nukembomb future is concerned, I think we'll definitely have some decimating detonations before 2010. Fucking jihad.
Last time I quit smoking weed I had 3 or 4 really intense nuclear nightmares that had me always jerking awake sweaty right before I melted. But my great aunt was a carny palm reader. So I'm building a bomb shelter, equipped with a french whore and a tigershark aquarium, and hey, I could grow weed in it. Bivitchin.
-------------------- --"Does the Pope shit in the woods?"
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dickdeadly
rælity
Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 5,672
Loc: in my mind
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: The realities of nuclear weapons and our memories of the Cold War [Re: syzygy]
#5858139 - 07/14/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
syzygy said: But my great aunt was a carny palm reader.
I don't understand the relevance of that one statement.
-------------------- Character is how you act when you think no one is watching
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