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OfflineDruginduced
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Witchcraft
    #5312580 - 02/18/06 01:53 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Last week I found out a girl I have a few classes with at uni claims to be a witch. This got me interested in all sorts of new things, like wicca, and witchcraft and spellcasting. Anyone have any personal experience with spells?


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OfflineMcGaggy
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Druginduced]
    #5312706 - 02/18/06 03:40 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I am a pagan (a Druid, actually). What questions do you have? Pagans are not satanists (Satanists are atheists). We are polytheists for the most part. We worship nature as the face of God and Goddess. Wiccans follow the rede "harm none."


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: McGaggy]
    #5312783 - 02/18/06 06:13 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Druid here also. Small world :smile:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Druginduced]
    #5312839 - 02/18/06 07:39 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It's out of print, but Stewart Ferrar's What Witches Do is my favorite book on witchcraft (I bought a second copy through www.BN.com out-of-print books). Ferrar admits himself that witchcraft is a "low brow" path. This book is about the now legendary Alex and Maxine Sanders, and their coven. Alex was a ceremonial magician, which is a 'high brow' path requiring much study. Simple witchcraft entails both verbal spells and handcrafted spells. The God and Goddess couple in witchcraft often reflect Celtic traditions, but some use ancient Egyptian or other divine dualities. Sanders had a Kabbalistic model for his magick - Supernal Father and Supernal Mother. One needs to know what is Ultimately Divine to understand someone if you want to understand her (hint: if you want to impress her  :wink:)

Ray Buckland's books are also very instructive (I met Buckland when he was trying to recruit new witches at my college in the early 70s. He took along a beautiful petit blonde dressed in tight balck, with a gold pentagram around her neck. I wanted to see this girl 'sky-clad,' but witchcraft was not to become my path. Best wishes (with the girl).



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5312849 - 02/18/06 07:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It all goes back to Gardner, Valiente, and Crowley.
Nuff Said,lol.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: FungusMan]
    #5312861 - 02/18/06 08:04 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

True enough, but Sanders simplified and popularized. I always dug Maxine, and now Fiona Horne keeps me at attention  :grin:


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: McGaggy]
    #5312868 - 02/18/06 08:09 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

McGaggy said:
Wiccans follow the rede "harm none."




Thanks again to Crowley,lol. From his "Book of Laws".


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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5312874 - 02/18/06 08:12 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Could you go into more detail about Ray Buckland? Years ago I had read one of his books called "Scottish Witchcraft" I think it was, and I wasn't too impressed with it at the time. R.J. Stewart seemed to strike closer to something authentic in the tradition (although his concern was not witchcraft per se), but I may have misjudged Buckland.


--------------------

"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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Re: Witchcraft [Re: AislingGheal]
    #5312879 - 02/18/06 08:16 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Buckland, IMO is a great asset to newcomers of the craft. Especially his book" The Book of Witchcraft"(I think thats the name,lol,sleepy).


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: AislingGheal]
    #5312892 - 02/18/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I could almost swear that a ritual I once improvised based on Buckland's Practical Candleburning actually worked. The love magick actually did bring this Amazonian goddess to my dorm room the week before we graduated, and she was ready to give me the farewell f**k I had long fantasized about, but I chickened out!! Too much womanhood for me at the time! :banghead: But she WAS the object of the ritual.

On the other hand, it once seemed that God was trying to shortcut my attempt at ceremonial magick on Halloween, by having another fair beauty show up at my door a few hours before my roommate and I were going to summon Asmodeus, demon of lust. The girl, Linda Rubin, took THAT moment to ask me for a driving lesson - to learn to drive a stick shift! I kid you not, but I never even thought it might be a sexual come-on, so I sent her away - curves, strawberry blonde hair, freckles and all! But I digress.

http://www.controverscial.com/Raymond%20Buckland.htm

http://raybuckland.com/index.html


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinesoylent_green
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: McGaggy]
    #5312946 - 02/18/06 09:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

McGaggy said:
  Pagans are not satanists (Satanists are atheists).





satanists are satanists, atheists are atheists.
they are both VERY different things

:smile:


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: soylent_green]
    #5312960 - 02/18/06 09:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

No, they are not! Go up your own arsehole, believe in something that is the anti-thesis of spirituality.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (03/10/06 06:27 PM)


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Silverwolf]
    #5312977 - 02/18/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hell, Satanists dont even know what they are. One minute they say they beleive in nothing more than self gratification and self preservation, the next minute they are reading "canons" from ol Antons Book of Satanic Rituals. LMAO!!!!!


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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5314636 - 02/18/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks Marcos for the links, I see I knew very little about Buckland though my instincts about the Aidan Breac thing may have been correct.
You've lived a very interesting life Marcos  :yesnod:. Makes me want to try out some candle burning rituals myself  :wink:.


--------------------

"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Silverwolf]
    #5314736 - 02/18/06 09:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yes they are different.
Satanist whorship satan. he is their leader
Atheist are non-whorhipers and non-believers of someother kind of force.
And to be true, a part of them can believe in a higher force, but they sustain they are atheists because no religon stisfies them and their beliefs and they can't still come in touch with the God they feel, another part of them are so because some rebelion, need to be different, and so on.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinemrsautoman
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Druginduced]
    #5316429 - 02/19/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Druginduced said:
Anyone have any personal experience with spells?




For me the casting of spells sits somewhere in between the prayer of my Christian youth and the meditation of my Buddhist flirtation.

I think the focused mind can accomplish anything. Spells (for me) are rituals for the focusing of my intentions and desires.

Also, in a way, casting a spell can signify that I have stated my case to the cosmos for their consideration.

The only advice I would give about casting a spell is to be aware of two main things:

1. Be careful what you wish for.
2. Be careful whose help you are enlisting.

For instance: If I feel I have been wronged by someone, it seems to be more constructive to frame my spell as "take away my bitterness and replace it with understanding" instead of "here's hoping that person really gets what's coming to them".


--------------------

~I was born of a voice untimely,
the so-called echo of a man's ordure~


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: mrsautoman]
    #5316461 - 02/19/06 01:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

satanists dont believe in satan. they are pretty much athiests that are obsessed with blasphamy.

regular athiests dont even bother with bullshit like that


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineDruginduced
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: mrsautoman]
    #5316792 - 02/19/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting stories Marcos; and thanks for the link. Where can I get more information on the specifics of casting spells? There was a bit of information in the link you supplied Marcos, but I require specifics if ya know what I mean =).
Thanks


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Druginduced]
    #5317004 - 02/19/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry, I grew out of that phase 30+ years ago.
After one learns to withdraw the projections, and stops perceiving reality in terms on one's embodied ego and everything else, then the magick circle along with all of the symbolic Instruments of the Art become internalized (after all, that's where they're from in the first place: imagined and then constructed out of physical material).

Magick gives way to mysticism (one can see both aspects in Aleister Crowley, for example, but he is not a model for anyone to emulate, just one from whom mistakes can be learned. He was a miserable bastard to women and animals, a hater of Blacks and Jews, and despite his claims for having achieved 'samadhi,' his nasty-assed personality never approached Compassion).

When the 'getting' of magick gives way to the 'giving' of mysticism, one receives back from the universe. 'Cast one's bread upon the water...' Spell-casting, once withdrawn to the inner being, morphs into 'petitionary prayer.' One no longer requires props, and the illusion that one's ego somehow was responsible for bending the will of the gods (or God), or that magickal implements and herbs are fetishistic power objects in their own right, ceases to be believed.

Not what you wanted to hear, but this is what I have learned based upon where I have been. Helping another is called 'intercessory prayer,' spontaneous ejaculations of appreciation for being alive and healthy and being in no want is called 'prayer of thanksgiving.' Meditation is called 'contemplative prayer.' It is all within. The Absolute is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart.

Peace.

-MtG


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Druginduced]
    #5318898 - 02/20/06 08:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Not quite witchcraft but magic nonetheless:

Grant Morrison on sigil magic:
http://www.grantmorrison.com/mag.htm
Easy magic that non-magicians can experiment with in the privacy of their own home.(I know; that color scheme is bad for the eyes)

My personal experience with this stuff: Inconclusive (which is better than the clear 'doesn't work' which I expected going into this), but then I haven't delved very deep into it.

Interesting board on related topics:
http://barbelith.com/forum/6


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Re: Witchcraft [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5320655 - 02/20/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You also forgot to mention Crowley was a heavy heroin addict. LMAO!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: FungusMan]
    #5321378 - 02/20/06 07:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Couldn't care less about his self-destruction (unless he was jacking old ladies for smack money). It's his legacy that has sucked in so many magickally-fascinated individuals that has caused harm. The only reasons I'm reading his autobiography is 1) to get residual fascination of his character out of my system (which seems to be working) and 2) Will Parfitt who wrote an awesome little book on Qabbalism, stated that 'whatever else one might think of Crowley, he was a knowledgable Qabbalist.'



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: Witchcraft [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5322826 - 02/21/06 02:27 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Magickly, I have to admit that he was an overachiever. I only recently got obsessed with him cuz of that damned Ozzy song, lol. I love the Cradle of Filth version more. But, like alot of great thinkers, he lead a shabby existence. Hell, Einstein was an addict. Now Im starting to feel a slight Edgar Cayce obsession coming on,lol. Back to reading....

Mr. Crowley, what went on in your head
(Oh) Mr. Crowley, did you talk to the dead
Your lifestyle to me seemed so tragic
With the thrill of it all
You fooled all the people with magic
(Yea)You waited on Satan's call

Mr. Charming, did you think you were pure
Mr. Alarming, in nocturnal rapport
Uncovering things that were sacred, manifest on this earth
(Ah)Conceived in the eye of a secret
Yeah, they scattered the afterbirth

Solo

Mr. Crowley, won't you ride my white horse?
Mr. Crowley, it's symbolic of course
Approaching a time that is classic
I hear that maidens call
Approaching a time that is drastic
Standing with their backs to the wall

Was it polemically sent
I wanna know what you meant
I wanna know
I wanna know what you meant, yeah!


Edited by FungusMan (02/21/06 03:01 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: FungusMan]
    #5325134 - 02/21/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Einstein was an addict to what, mathematics?


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Re: Witchcraft [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5326039 - 02/21/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Either opium or heroin, I cant remember.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: FungusMan]
    #5326043 - 02/21/06 09:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think you are mistaken.


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OfflineDruginduced
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: koppie]
    #5330137 - 02/22/06 11:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hey thanks Koppie, the sigil magic is definetly something easy to get started with... hehe. I made my first sigil today. This is sure to be a momentous occasion of my existence.


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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Druginduced]
    #5360806 - 03/03/06 06:59 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Many people conflate "witchcraft" with wicca. Wicca is a dualist religion in which "God" is replaced by "The God" and "The Goddesss". Not really all that different from mystical christianity. A significant number of folks who use the name witch are animists; they believe All Things are alive, aware and responsive. There is an unexamined bias in modern mysticism assuming that the most evolved perspective is unity with "The One". I think more important is awareness of "The Many".

As I've said to folks many times, it's all about relationships. Lots of practicing witches use shamanic tools to become more aware of relationships or potential relationships. I also lean heavily on Buddhism and the concept of "mutually dependant co-arising". Are you living your relationships with the human, nature and spirit realms in alignment with your values?

Isn't it interesting that many shroom users percieve something called an entelechy (sp?) which I've seen described as a multitude of beings who are also One. Like light being a particle and a wave Mystery is both and probably also something else we don't have the concepts to envision.

Sometimes magic is defined as "altering consciousness at will". I believe magic is "altering relationships with will".

I'm a big fan of the Reclaiming tradition of witchcraft and the intensive teaching camps local communities have around the world. Just too much fun! But not very focused on the dusty British Trads...


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5386909 - 03/10/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Yes they are different.
Satanist whorship satan. he is their leader
Atheist are non-whorhipers and non-believers of someother kind of force.
And to be true, a part of them can believe in a higher force, but they sustain they are atheists because no religon stisfies them and their beliefs and they can't still come in touch with the God they feel, another part of them are so because some rebelion, need to be different, and so on.




I'm very catholic on this "Stanism" is "Atheism" because it's logical conclusion can only be self-contradiction.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


Edited by Silverwolf (03/10/06 06:44 PM)


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Tsinaglou]
    #5386974 - 03/10/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tsinaglou said:
Many people conflate "witchcraft" with wicca. Wicca is a dualist religion in which "God" is replaced by "The God" and "The Goddesss". Not really all that different from mystical christianity. A significant number of folks who use the name witch are animists; they believe All Things are alive, aware and responsive. There is an unexamined bias in modern mysticism assuming that the most evolved perspective is unity with "The One". I think more important is awareness of "The Many".

As I've said to folks many times, it's all about relationships. Lots of practicing witches use shamanic tools to become more aware of relationships or potential relationships. I also lean heavily on Buddhism and the concept of "mutually dependant co-arising". Are you living your relationships with the human, nature and spirit realms in alignment with your values?

Isn't it interesting that many shroom users percieve something called an entelechy (sp?) which I've seen described as a multitude of beings who are also One. Like light being a particle and a wave Mystery is both and probably also something else we don't have the concepts to envision.

Sometimes magic is defined as "altering consciousness at will". I believe magic is "altering relationships with will".

I'm a big fan of the Reclaiming tradition of witchcraft and the intensive teaching camps local communities have around the world. Just too much fun! But not very focused on the dusty British Trads...




"Dusty British Trads"? Hmmpphhh....


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: Witchcraft [Re: Silverwolf]
    #5386998 - 03/10/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I invite anyone interested in generally serious discussions of the occult to www.occultforums.com, where I am a mod. We have forums on wicca, ceremonial magick, satanism, chaos magick (the sigil stuff) and more.

And as a historical point AC was prescribed herion as a cure for asthma (as was a common practice in those days) and that was how he became addicted to it.


--------------------





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