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InvisibleSinbad
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The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd
    #5303311 - 02/15/06 04:07 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Mental afflictions and diseases are the plague of this generation, and possibly the fate of the next. The human mind is obsessed with many kinds of useless things - with worries about this and that, with doubt, with anger, vindictiveness, jealousy, fear, dullness and stupidity of various kinds. We have obsessive minds that are obsessed with things that cause us pain and lead us into difficulties in life. Our society has taught us how to fill up the mind, jam it full of ideas, prejudices, regrets, anticipations and expectations -- its a society for filling up vessels.

Just look at the internet, filled up with all the information you could possibly want to know. We can fill our minds by watching TV, going to the cinema, reading newspapers....Thats a good way to fill up your mind up- but look at whats printed in the newspapers! It appeals to peoples lower instincts and drives - all about violence, wars, corruption, perversity's, and gossip.

All this has an effect on the mind. As long as our minds are obsessed with facts, symbols and conventions then if we stuff more into it, it becomes jam-packed full and we have to go crazy. We can go out and get drunk - its a way of letting go! What do you think pubs are for? There we can dare to say all the things we want to say but don't have the nerve to say when sober. We can be irrational, be silly, laugh and cavort, 'because i was drunk, i was under the influence of alcohol'

When we don't understand the nature of things we are suggestible. You see how our society works on teenagers. Now its the MTV generation - everybody in that generation thinks of themselves and associates themselves with a certain kind of group . Fashions are all suggestion - for women you are told that you are not beautiful unless you have a certain figure and dress in a certain way. Movies suggest all kinds of delights to the senses, and we think maybe we should try that, maybe we are missing something if we aren't experiencing.

Its not so bad now that nobody knows whats beautiful or ugly anymore. Somebody says that harmony is cacophony, and if you don't know, and are still subject to suggestion, you believe that. Even if you don't believe at first, it begins to work on your mind, so you start thinking: 'Maybe it is that way, maybe immorality is morality, and morality is immorality.'

Respect your mind, so that you can be more careful what you put into it. If you have a nice house, you don't go out and pick up all the filth from the street and bring it in, you bring in things that will enhance your home and make it a refreshing and delightful place to live.

if you are going to identify with anything, then don't identify with mortal conditions. See what identification is - investigate your own mind to see clearly the nature of thought, of memory, of the senses, and of feelings as impermanent conditions. bring your awareness to the slower things, to the transiency of bodily sensation. Investigate pain and see it was a moving energy, a changing condition.

Observe and Discover the truth of how things are, as this is the wisdom we need for our lives, to put an end to all conflict.

May you all discover the limitless depths of your hearts and minds. :heart:


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (02/16/06 06:30 PM)


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Sinbad]
    #5303535 - 02/15/06 05:24 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting, but discovering the limitless depth of _our_ hearts and _our_ minds will lead us down the loveless path Europe has set the world before.

Dis-covery (that is _true_ truth) will come in a depthless understanding of things as things. This is far from a predisposition to problematize objects (which you've mentioned), the mentality of shieling oneself for the puprose of self-assertion, that reigns. Let us venture into the Open.


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5303620 - 02/15/06 05:43 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

the emotional mind can be pretty obsessive and conditioned.
and i guess the rational mind too.

the intuitive mind though.....seems different....or more independent...
should we "listen" to that mind more? the intuitive mind can be pretty faulty though.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: TameMe]
    #5303698 - 02/15/06 06:02 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

it is not a matter of which mind we should listen too it is a matter of shutting up society dictating our minds contents.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: blaze2]
    #5303715 - 02/15/06 06:10 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

does society act on our intuition?

i'm thinking intuition acts on things but isn't acted on.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: TameMe]
    #5303748 - 02/15/06 06:30 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

nice post


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Deviate]
    #5303795 - 02/15/06 06:48 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

intuition is a 'sixth sense' of a sort. its the realtime reasoning of the unconscious mind. everything you put into to your brain is imprinted on the unconscious mind, this will influence the accurcacy of your intuition depending on similar past experiance. When someone says "I feel out of place" what they really mean is that their intution is off, because things are new, and all the things one expects can be thrown off.

instinct tells us to shake hands when we meet someone, it tells us to ask for change, to watch a shady customer around the candy racks, to walk on sidewalks, to flinch away from a fist flying at your face, to throw a punch back after you dodge.

It could be thought of as context clues(thats what they called them at my HS). When you dont know a word in a sentence but because of the rest of it it can be discerned. its a leap of faith, but based on known truths. its not always correct, but the more experianced you are in an activity theh more one comes to trust his instinct. A fencer(sword fighting) doenst think where to swing the sword next, HE KNOWS.

Our minds are filled with piles of crap about HOW we shoudl behave, and act, by society. We have lost God, because we are even told how our God is for us. The worst part is that this is no accident of our culture or technology, this is intentional. there are people who are using this deluge of information we recieve daily to plant little seeds in peoples minds. in effect they pollute our intuition. Its like a computer virus.

Man that took a while. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


Edited by blaze2 (02/15/06 08:36 PM)


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Sinbad]
    #5304047 - 02/15/06 08:11 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Great post. Thank you.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: dorkus]
    #5305382 - 02/16/06 03:51 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

TameMe: What's a mind?

blaze2: Your liberal individualism is naive. Which society can avoid conditioning its members?

Quote:

intuition is a 'sixth sense' of a sort. its the realtime reasoning of the unconscious mind. everything you put into to your brain is imprinted on the unconscious mind, this will influence the accurcacy of your intuition depending on similar past experiance.




This isn't science or philosophy, this is some personal opinion references folk psychology and myths about the mind that you've picked up. I know this, because I've heard them before; I know they're not correct, because I've studied the sciences of the mind.

Quote:


instinct tells us to shake hands when we meet someone, it tells us to ask for change, to watch a shady customer around the candy racks, to walk on sidewalks, to flinch away from a fist flying at your face, to throw a punch back after you dodge.




instict can be wrong.
fear tells us things to too. it tells us to fear shaking hands, it tells us to fear change, to watch a shady customer around the candy racks, to walk on sidewalks, to flinch away from a fist flying at you...

Quote:


Our minds are filled with piles of crap about HOW we shoudl behave, and act, by society.





Precisely. Where did you get your ideas about "instict" and to "know"?

Quote:

We have lost God, because we are even told how our God is for us. The worst part is that this is no accident of our culture or technology, this is intentional. there are people who are using this deluge of information we recieve daily to plant little seeds in peoples minds. in effect they pollute our intuition. Its like a computer virus.




Where has this not happened before?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Sinbad]
    #5305973 - 02/16/06 10:54 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:

When we don't understand the nature of things we are suggestible. You see in out society works on teenagers. Now its the MTV generation - everybody in that generation thinks of themselves and associates themselves with a certain kind of group . Fashions are all suggestion - for women you are told that you are not beautiful unless you have a certain figure and dress in a certain way. Movies suggest all kinds of delights to the senses, and we think maybe we should try that, maybe we are missing something if we aren't experiencing.

:heart:



I tried to figure out what the solution could be. Why people try so much to be like the others. But I came to the conclusion that nothing is to blame. And I'll tell you why. Humanity has to learn from it's own mistakes. And humanity should have the right to make as many mistakes as possible. Mistake= experience. Learning from mistakes = wisdom. So that's the only viable formula I could come up with. In order to become wise and strong we have to go though experience. We should avoid times interdictions. As many interdictions we have - and one of the them war the inquisition period - as much we regress. We must have the chance to choose from a million things. And that counts the MTV "movement" as well. Doesn't matter if it's good or bad. Like Timothy Leary said, we must create our world from chaos, and by chaos we understand a multitude of choices.
It's kind of modern natural selection. The strongest and the best will survive, and human kind will evolve. We must confound this things, not avoid them.
So my idea is to live life at it's infinite possibilities.And then we'll find our true selves. And be able to face our fears and obsessions.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5307061 - 02/16/06 03:36 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Sinbad said:

When we don't understand the nature of things we are suggestible. You see in out society works on teenagers. Now its the MTV generation - everybody in that generation thinks of themselves and associates themselves with a certain kind of group . Fashions are all suggestion - for women you are told that you are not beautiful unless you have a certain figure and dress in a certain way. Movies suggest all kinds of delights to the senses, and we think maybe we should try that, maybe we are missing something if we aren't experiencing.

:heart:



I tried to figure out what the solution could be. Why people try so much to be like the others. But I came to the conclusion that nothing is to blame. And I'll tell you why. Humanity has to learn from it's own mistakes. And humanity should have the right to make as many mistakes as possible. Mistake= experience. Learning from mistakes = wisdom. So that's the only viable formula I could come up with. In order to become wise and strong we have to go though experience. We should avoid times interdictions. As many interdictions we have - and one of the them war the inquisition period - as much we regress. We must have the chance to choose from a million things. And that counts the MTV "movement" as well. Doesn't matter if it's good or bad. Like Timothy Leary said, we must create our world from chaos, and by chaos we understand a multitude of choices.
It's kind of modern natural selection. The strongest and the best will survive, and human kind will evolve. We must confound this things, not avoid them.
So my idea is to live life at it's infinite possibilities.And then we'll find our true selves. And be able to face our fears and obsessions.




Yes i agree, but what if our mistakes are never pointed out? Or worse if we live in a society that promotes mistakes as being fashionable and the corect way to be? This is why spiriutal traditions exists, to point out the habitual mistakes we've been collecting since birth, and take the individual out of the misery of the self-created cage of ignorance. All spiritual traditions have some way, some method of cutting through our dualistic notions. or pointing out the mistakes of delusion and correcting them.

The main method used for the realization of non-duality has been used for centuries by Chiristians, Hindus, Sufi's, Sifu's, and Guru's who generally practice either a thesitic or non -theistic tradition.

Through devotional prayer and taking refuge in an all-pervasive omnipotent consideration ones subjectivity is disolves into the objectivity of an all-pervasive, omnipotent principle, which also disolves upon the dawning of insight. Seeing clearly that both subjectivity and objectivity are illusions created through our distorted views, we no longer produce or project them. In stopping these projections we also stop creating our limited considerations of objective reality.

Understanding onesses of the universe becomes much easier through an act of loving surrender or devotional service. Buddhists maintain many different methods for cutting through the common human disorted dualitic views. both buddhist and hindu paths contain many structured ways of pointing out, and cutting through the self-perpetuated mistakes of delusion, hatred,and greed, lighting up the way to sanity and integration with the all-pervasive oneess of the universe.

As all things are naturally perfect, may all beings recognize the perfect non-duality beyond conception, and never again stray along the path of misery.


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (02/16/06 04:20 PM)


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Sinbad]
    #5307147 - 02/16/06 04:02 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

lake fingers you are naive one one I'm afraid. Society has always influenced its people, did I say otherwise, nope. Its just at a point in this age of communication that it becomes overwhelming.

I got my notions from my brain(and sure its been polluted too, but honestly I have my own original ideas/opinions on just about anything. My mom used to say id argue with a doornob. Not saying I'm right just that its all from my head.)

Of course instinct can be wrong, and fear telling us to fear things is instinct telling us to be afraid. Instinct is the "rational" emotion if you will. Sure its not science man, I never said it was. Through my own personal experiance this is the nature of instinct/intuition. You may have a shitty instinct, and as a result just dont listen to your gut, and as a result dont believe in it at all. Does that mean everyone else experianced it the same? no. You are Naive to possibilities of things outside of your own knowledge/experiance. and in your mind they must be crazy or lies. whatever floats your boat man. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Sinbad]
    #5307863 - 02/16/06 07:15 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

You're right to some point. But occidental philosophy is very different from the Buddhist one. And we can't change that. We can't just point out to the people which choose to live their life by a pattern and tell them not to. Cause it only does more harm than good.
And anyways, learning from our own mistakes will be for sure a very long-termed thing to realize, nevertheless a sure one. It will take time and will have a lot of victims. That's why I said it will be like a modern natural selections, cause only few of the mass will beat it. But that's the only way for us.
And maybe, within generations, human kind will fell more and more drawn to meditation, self-discipline and self-motivation.
But this will only happen with tiny tiny steps. We just have to be patient and still have some good examples around us. Which will happen. It always does. We just have to be able to get them.
Humans are not born to lose, we just get so depressed some times, that we only see that way. Humans also have great qualities, which won't just disappear. And when the time will be right, they will show up for sure.
Until then, let's hope that as many positive thing as possible Will be around us, just to remind us that we are able to do incredible things, and that it's all up to us.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlineob1kinsmokey
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5308974 - 02/17/06 12:03 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

i dont have time to respond to this very good thread right now, but i would like to give much respect over to sinbad.

your thoughts are reinforced more than you can imagine, and through that may a positive outcome become imminent.

may you and yours be brought into light and love, and may it collectively conquer all. much respect


--------------------
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan

I took a walk in the woods and came out taller than the trees - Henry Thoreau

Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.

I really love butts.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Sinbad]
    #5309380 - 02/17/06 02:54 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:

When we don't understand the nature of things we are suggestible. ...
.
.
if you are going to identify with anything, then don't identify with mortal conditions. See what identification is - investigate your own mind to see clearly the nature of thought, of memory, of the senses, and of feelings as impermanent conditions.




well, we are always suggestible (until alzheimers or S.T.mem.loss sets in), but that just means capable of being conditioned. which is not bad at all - though it has some pitfalls.

and the issue of identifying is core to the whole issue of being separated. this approach is in the direction that builds the dream of ego.


being calm is basic to observing the conditioned and conditionable mind - loving what you discover is the way to influence the conditioning process. it is all process, dharma.


--------------------


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: Sinbad]
    #5309406 - 02/17/06 03:31 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

We are so deep. Let us embrace the ten thousand forms we take, give or take a few :wink:

Great post, nice to see someone who cares. I am there with you brother.

Everything is connected, this is something that applies to so much, yet is expressed in so little.

Yeah Redgreenvines, you can embrace it or reject it. Free will is as real as you choose to make it for yourself! :thumbup:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Re: The Obsessed & Conditioned Mnd [Re: mecreateme]
    #5309482 - 02/17/06 06:02 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Hey all,

I am truly enjoying this thread. I especially liked the metaphor about having a house.

About just letting people make their mistakes, I think you are right. Mistakes definately can teach you new things,by opening your mind to a bigger picture.

If we disagree with it, I see speaking out against it as the best option as opposed to trying to force it away out control these mistakes. Spreading positive messages like the ones given by the OP and others in this thread is a way to make a difference.

Just like the negative seeds that can be planted, the positive ones can also be planted - and grow out just as strong. Pilot your vessel well.


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