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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: CandyLand]
    #5282995 - 02/09/06 09:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

you miss the point entirely.

but considering your sour disposition i think i can live without
your contributions to this thread.
go handle your insurance and leave this discussion to people who care about the subject.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5283022 - 02/09/06 09:08 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think the problem is your definition of people who care only applies to those who agree with the same methods as you, regardless of a common goal.


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OfflineCandyLand
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5283168 - 02/09/06 09:46 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Vertigo6911 said:
you miss the point entirely.





You're right...my experience with the psychedelic ghetto is besides the point. And no doubt there is sourness related to that day-glo mess...(You would not believe the stuff i've witnessed!...whoops, sorry, there i go again)

psychedelics are both underated and overated in my experience. They are certainly neither the panacea or scrouge their more vivid promoters and distracters make them out to be. IMO. OK also beside the point.  :rolleyes:

However...

I am interested in hearing some of your idea's of how mimosa can be kept legal (if you have any) But all you've done is blame alot of other people for the situation, well offering nothing construtive beyond alot of macho posturing about being willing to put your ass on the line for your belief, and other Vagaries...so i why should view you as anything more then a loud-mouthed poser?

OK wait a minute, i recalled you suggested that we stand up and say 'hey, we use these drugs, and their not the devil' Like leary did shortly before lsd was scheduled, like leary did, which was the main reason lsd did get schedule...not that i'm opposed to leary for taking this stand, i'm not...but it had the opposite effect of what your suggesting...and that's a historical fact.

Also like NORML does with pot, and pot remains illegal 30 years later, Oh well, it doesn't hurt to try (only sometimes it does) but go ahead and try anyways (as i once did) knock yourself out, more power to you. But don't be too surprised if you eventually become sour, like me.  :laugh:

To tell you the truth, it was your attitude in your first post that got me going...you know..the one were we are all protrayed as a bunch of sleeping passive losers. Not fair..we all have different battles to fight.

Peace on you, I don't feel like bickering with you anymore, was kind of fun for a while, but now i've had my fill. Good Luck!


Edited by CandyLand (02/09/06 10:44 PM)


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: CandyLand]
    #5286164 - 02/10/06 04:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I think the problem is your definition of people who care only applies to those who agree with the same methods as you, regardless of a common goal.




im just getting annoyed at lary being blamed for 100% of the perception of the general public.

my point is that if there had been others, more responsible people
speaking up and showing the non hedonistic aspects of entheogenic plants he would have never had such an impact on the general public.

my point is that to be passive is the same as being active, with equal possibility of bad results.

im trying to say that alot, if not all of the power the war on drugs has is derrived from our silence.

dont u guys get it? no war can ever be won without the support of the
general public.
remember vietnam?
were loosing this war because we lost the general public.
as long as they support the war on drugs we are powerless.

face it people, there is only one way out of this and that is by changing peoples minds.

as for my reaction to this last dude:

Quote:

As for me i can take or leave the stuff, it's not my church, i have no church..i have bigger and smaller fish to fry...stuff you have no idea about. grown-up stuff like cancer and health insurance.




right here hes saying he doesent give a shit and has better things to do.
so WTF is he posting for other then to feed his ego?

also, why would he post this when we had just resolved that very point before he posted other then to feed his ego at the cost of the flow of this thread.

attention whores piss me off...


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OfflineCandyLand
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5286389 - 02/10/06 05:51 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Vertigo6911 said:
my point is that to be passive is the same as being active, with equal possibility of bad results.





That's your point now, wasn't to begin with..so your beginning to see my side of the argument...good! Your coming to your senses. And your welcome.  :laugh:

As for not my church and all that...well i do care about the freedom to alter my own Conscience, but there are many ways to do that, and if one is takin away, then i'll just use another...plus there is always the black-market  :wink: And as far as better things to do, well not nessaraly better... but more pressing, in that they directly pertain to my survival-and thus take priority.

As long as i can score me a bottle of cough medicine, i'll be doing just fine!  :grin:


And besides, my points are valid, and your above waffling on your original stance seem to indicate that even you are aware of this...So clearly my contribution holds some validity, or else why did you modify your stance to incorporate my perspective into your own? Which you did, that is as plain as day to any non-biased observer, thou your not likely to see it yourself, being the sort of jerk that you so obviously are.  :laugh:


Attention whore? pretty strong language, but that's ok, cuz we're all attention whores to a degree, even you, thou i don't expect you'd be able to cop to that.


Edited by CandyLand (02/10/06 06:10 PM)


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: wang_chung00]
    #5286577 - 02/10/06 06:51 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

yes that was my point to begin with, its been my point for last 3 months...

your an attention whore for draggin up a point that was just finished
just to tell us what were talking about isnt important.

as for non action being action, well your passive (conviniant) actions
have led to the current situation, and we already agree it leaves to be desired...

anyways for the rest of you:

i had this thought the other day that the more drugs are schedualed the more the powers that be will need to stretch their resources.

anyways i want to make another point:

the fact that we tried nothing means that we dont know jack about wether anything would work or have a bad effect or whatever.
we dont know.

sure u can mention leary, but i would hardly consider him the limit of what we as a community are capable of.

so what im tryin to do here, as ive been trying to do for several months now is get a discussion going and figure out where we realy stand in this.

there is no way in hell that we are as powerless to do anything as you all seem to think.

dont you guys realise that theres millions of us?
hat some of those are brand name celebrities?
that some of them are geniuses?
that together with the resources the internet has to offer we are capble of understanding the whole of the situation better then any person, group or whatever before?

these are statistical facts people, powerless is something we are not,
unless we chose to be...


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5286620 - 02/10/06 07:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

oh yeah, i never mentioned what i was doing before.

i had this idea that we would insert ourselves into the mainstream media in opposition to irresponsible vendors.

the market is growing and its attracting alot of new online vendors.
some of them will be irresponsible and market their products in undesirable ways.

we could make an effort to oppose these vendors and in doing so attract the attention of the media.

for the first time average joe would see us not as cheech and/or chong but as people with concerns similar to joes...

the way i see it the wors that could happen here is that we fail...

now im sure u can all come up with arguments why this wouldnet work,
but it illustrates my point that we should be capable of coming up with ideas that do work and still wont end up hurting the situation.

especialy if u agree that there are people smarter then myself on this forum...


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5286660 - 02/10/06 07:07 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I like your idea Vertigo, but it needs to be completely elaborated and sketched out fully before action is made.


I want to know what people think of the points I made in my last post. I considered the idea of putting something similar onto a posted for people to download, print off and spread around. It'd have to go through many idea and wording filters first tho.


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OfflineDrone
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5286685 - 02/10/06 07:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

you know what.... if gays, fat people, minoritys, etc, are getting all of this tolerence attention lately, why not drug users? its my life choice, wheres the tolerence for us?


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Edited by Drone (02/10/06 07:16 PM)


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OfflineDrone
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5286696 - 02/10/06 07:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Vertigo6911 said:


dont you guys realise that theres millions of us?
hat some of those are brand name celebrities?
that some of them are geniuses?
that together with the resources the internet has to offer we are capble of understanding the whole of the situation better then any person, group or whatever before?

these are statistical facts people, powerless is something we are not,
unless we chose to be...




major TV ads need to be run. Only way anybody on the other side will see anything..


--------------------



Edited by Drone (02/10/06 07:23 PM)


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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Drone]
    #5286993 - 02/10/06 09:12 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not holding anything against leary personally. He did what he believed is right. Like I've said, it's easy to realize what might have worked better now that 40 years have passed. I don't blame him for his decisions made in the moment. To me, they were all morally right to do.

But it's important to see something besides the nobility of his cause, in hopes for the future, and doing things in a more productive manner. Dissolving the barrier between the counterculture leary created, and the main culture is an important step in my opinion.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5289013 - 02/11/06 05:12 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I have some mh rootbark for trade if anyone is interested. I also have a very few psychotria viridis berrys from my bushes.


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5297516 - 02/14/06 01:34 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I did write that petition to vendors awhile back and never got any comments on it. I don't know if a list was ever made of the 'sketchy' vendors but I think the MHRB goes beyond that issue.  I do think the fliers would be good for festivals though.

'The Petition to Keep Salvia Divinorum Legal'

It has been brought to our attention that there is a great threat being posed to this sacred plant. Numerous websites are advertising this alley as a party-drug and showing video clips of people acting in an irresponsible manner. It is our belief that should these activities continue, then Salvia Divinorum will be scheduled and no longer available for use as an entheogen. By boycotting vendors who sell in an un-ethical manner and do not provide the safe information regarding this plant, we will keep this little miracle available for future generations to come. If you have not already been aquianted with a plant in your home or church, and you are wishing to meet this spirit; please consider one of these reliable vendors working for the cause.

Sagewisdom
ShamansPalace - when they discontinue the flavours :wink:
IamShaman
BouncingBear

Thank you for your consideration in this manner, long live the Sage :tongue2:

(Could use some editing)

Margret Mead said:
 
Quote:

Never think that a small group of people can't change the world; its the only thing that ever has.




I'm kind of sitting on the fence as to whether 'no attention ~ good attention' or if we should in fact 'come out.'

ONe way about it may be to write editorials in small town newspapers across the states, basically saying that responsible use of plant/drugs in the right setting has many benefits and have long histories of safety.  This would hopefully get the word out younger children to discuss with their parents and friends so they can make their own beliefs and something to get the 'general public' thinking about besides the 'jumps out of window' stories that go around.

If anyone writes a paper please submit for peer review first =)


Edited by namaste (02/14/06 01:58 AM)


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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: namaste]
    #5297752 - 02/14/06 02:38 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Apparently a major vendor who had trouble with shipments will be restocked in less than 2 weeks.

Don't panic just yet.


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5297774 - 02/14/06 02:45 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

hehe, just throwing out ideas, now see what would have happened if we freaked out?  (sets down pipe) :grin:


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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: namaste]
    #5297805 - 02/14/06 02:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It doesn't mean we need to chill out and let the inevitable happen anyway. I just mean... this rumor spread across each and every forum. It was originally started at drugs-forum. Someone claimed to know some pilot guy involved in customs. It was real dirty 3rd hand information that was never verified. The vendor with the shipment issues was the only real grounds this thing had.

I'm not an entho vendor, but I assume all of them have had a customs issue or two in their history.


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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5298484 - 02/14/06 11:26 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Do you like my newspaper editorial idea?


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OfflineGrok
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: namaste]
    #5301346 - 02/15/06 01:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Influencing public opinion is simply not enough when it comes to legalizing ceratin plants/substances. If you ask most people they think that marijuana being illegal is somewhat ridiculous, and yet the laws don't change drastically.

I'm sure you could convince a lot of people about the plus/neutral sides of psychedelics, but it is simply of no concern to them to put forth any effort to change the way they are handled legally. How many heterosexuals get really involved in the push to legalize gay marriage? There needs to a large motivating force, like some drastic injustice which the public would not stand for. Its just democracy and that's what were stuck with.

I think the main problem is with people dying from 'illegal drugs'. This leads to public views that illegal drugs kill. It does not distinguish meth from dmt. They are both illegal and presumably were made that way because they kill or make users a drag on society; this is what the public is lead to believe. I have older family who subscribe to this despite past drug use.

Running TV ads would be though. I doubt any network would really want to broadcast pro-illegal drug information. People don't like their kids seeing/being told that sort of stuff. It would not be good PR which is bad economics which means its very unlikley to happen. There's way too much anti-drug crap on the air anyway and people have been buying it for awhile.

I don't mean to be a pessimist. Making these sacred substances tolerated would be absolutly wonderful. I just don't see a way, but I am young and lack perspective. It's been tried before, and I think we can learn from that, but we have to be careful and thoughtful for a new approach to gain any ground. It would take a tremendous amount of legal work, we would need an army of lawyers and standing politicans on our side which means $. Ill check again but my wallet wasn't exactly overflowing with the stuff last time I looked. Sadly the same is the case for most drug users I know. Its a tough, uphill battle, but greater feats have been accomplished by smaller groups of people.


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: Grok]
    #5302295 - 02/15/06 08:49 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the response, but I still think influencing/educating the public would be a good start. We need to nip those "They are both illegal and presumably were made that way because they kill or make users a drag on society; this is what the public is lead to believe." ideas in the bud. My mom's argument was always "drugs are dangerous because they aren't regulated." I think it would help if people knew that psychedelic dosages are easy to control and (most) don't pose any physical dangers. Maybe some people would be outraged that these medicenes aren't available or at least we'd get some more numbers on our side...


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OfflineGrok
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Re: mimosa hostillis availability [Re: namaste]
    #5302596 - 02/15/06 12:23 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I have met some people that just can't get their head around using for anything besides legitimate medicinal use...any recreational drug use would not be tolerated by these people, because "drugs are bad/illegal" and therefore you shouldn't take them. You should listen to the government because *obviously* they know best.

Getting the public educated would be a good start, but it would have be a more broad education than "psychedelics are alright". I think, though, as our generation grows older there is a possibility for some progress. Many older people just don't understand or care and they make up a large part of the vote.

I'm pretty mad that psychedelics aren't legally available to some extent, but our numbers are small. We have been allowed to see things the way they are and not how American media paints the world for us. Unfortunatly so many people are comfortable in the latter world they would rather not give a shit. I have friends that get nothing out of psychedelics...its just another method to get "fucked up", and this keeps perpetuating their illegal status.

I think the situation is still a parallel to the Spanish conquerors and the native South Americans. The indians were happy eating mushrooms and drinking aya, the Spanish saw this as some sort if hocus-pocus witchcraft and did all they could to end it. Most of our country is religous and wouldn't readily buy into people having "hallucinations" for spirituality.


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