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Offlinefour_winds
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the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear
    #5301085 - 02/14/06 09:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)


I've set my ring on the stove till it was piping hot and tried to burn a hole in my palm, like Jesus took his nail through the flesh. I am weak. I dropped the fire, I sustained only MINOR burns from this experience, and I feel like if I was given the choice of pleasureful sin, or PAINFUL goodness, I would choose the easy path.


Ah, the easy path. SO fucking easy out there in the free tide. SO flowing and easy to access, and master. SO fucking free handed to me, like candy. And I ate of the vine, the wine, and the sweet candy. Until even I Was sick. Like a sinner in the eyes of the Lord.

When asked to die, To die to my BODY, when asked to hold onto the ring of pain, I dropped it, and would not leave my mark of burned flesh.
I hope to be stronger, even now, as I heat my inner fire, to golden the band of silver . To turn the silver, INTO GOLD. The ultimate act, of Jesus or our savior. Metaphorically, at least the idea of turning something into another, even greater or more like our Lord.

The creator turned darkness into light, and I will turn those demons into saviors. This thing inside of me, must be brought out to prowl the plains, and to seek what it wants to, on it's own accord. Like a Lion stalking and laying in the field.

And now, I spit the candy out, as I heal myself from within.
I hurt myself, to know what pain is about. No pain is greater, than the ones inside, but only because they last forever, and not how long the body takes to heal them. I will heal these wounds, that I sport on my skin, because of the blessings of the Human body. And like our Lord who was also the ultimate human, I strive to move beyond the here and now, unto the ultimate realization of who I am and who I am to become.

I must become the Healer, of both self AND spirit, a leader of myself and others to salvation. And wherever this path may lead, I have seen it, because of my past, and who I am.

I am like the moon, a child in the darkness. One who has been slow to embrace the sun. And here between the shadows I think in my head, endulged in liquor and the Nature of mysself, and try to reflect the Sun. THe sun is my savior, and I must forever BE the sun, and spread the rays of love and hope.


Edited by four_winds (02/14/06 10:07 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: four_winds]
    #5301155 - 02/14/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Some here may remember my bad acid trip from a year ago. What made it so terrifying was that it felt like I was experiencing the pain that all the people in the world inflicted on one another. I believe that this is the true meaning of the crucifixion: It was not just the Romans crucifying Jesus, but mankind crucifying itself. Jesus felt the pain of the world, yet forgave everyone because he understood that he was one with the same people who were killing him. Seen in this manner, one can understand the resurrection as mankind overcoming its self-destructive hatred and reaching salvation.


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Invisiblespud
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Silversoul]
    #5301162 - 02/14/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

If men do not first experience the resurrection while they are alive, they will not receive anything when they die.

Gospel of Philip, saying 21


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Offlinefour_winds
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Silversoul]
    #5301184 - 02/14/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Both of you are wise, yes, with words that help a brother.
Out there in the waters, it is hard to make of the truth.
Yes, Jesus, beyond my total understanding, one whom I love and trust, like myself


Edited by four_winds (02/14/06 10:25 PM)


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: four_winds]
    #5301211 - 02/14/06 10:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

christians piss me off


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5301234 - 02/14/06 10:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DeathCompany said:
christians piss me off



That's ok. Jesus loves you anyway.


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Invisiblespud
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Silversoul]
    #5301238 - 02/14/06 10:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

DeathCompany said:
christians piss me off



That's ok.  Jesus loves you anyway.



:heart:


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: spud]
    #5301249 - 02/14/06 10:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

haha


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OfflineNerdleWombanger
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Silversoul]
    #5301251 - 02/14/06 10:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Nothing is as offensive as people who derive their virtues from fantasies.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: NerdleWombanger]
    #5301260 - 02/14/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NerdleWombanger said:
Nothing is as offensive as people who derive their virtues from fantasies.



After taking a course in moral philosophy, I have to say that philosophy is unlikely to bring you any closer to morality than religion is.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: four_winds]
    #5301266 - 02/14/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

All I know is that I wouldn't burn myself intentionally for any reason :ohwell:


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OfflineNerdleWombanger
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Silversoul]
    #5301277 - 02/14/06 10:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I don't consider virtue and morality to be synonymous, to avoid confusion, maybe I should've used the word 'value' instead?

Besides... most philosophy isn't any less fanciful.


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: NerdleWombanger]
    #5301286 - 02/14/06 10:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

you can tell jesus thankyou...o wait no one has ever seen him nevermind


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5301300 - 02/14/06 10:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DeathCompany said:
you can tell jesus thankyou...o wait no one has ever seen him nevermind



I have.


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Silversoul]
    #5301305 - 02/14/06 10:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

haha yeah and i have pictures of mrs claus naked


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OfflineNerdleWombanger
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5301310 - 02/14/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Dude... whip em out!


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: NerdleWombanger]
    #5301314 - 02/14/06 10:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

hahai got em for valentines day and she said they were for my eyes only


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OfflineNerdleWombanger
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5301322 - 02/14/06 10:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What a shame.
Luckily, I've always got my imagination.


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: NerdleWombanger]
    #5301328 - 02/14/06 10:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

yeah same with all these other jesus loving retards


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5301593 - 02/15/06 12:04 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

hey now! jesus is real! ive seen him!








hes a mexican who works at taco bell


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\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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Offlinegregorio
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5302098 - 02/15/06 04:19 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DeathCompany said:
you can tell jesus thankyou...o wait no one has ever seen him nevermind




Thousands of people have seen, 2,000 years ago, it is a historical fact that Jesus was a real person who walked among men.

Whether or not this Jesus is God or not----I couldn't tell you.


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: gregorio]
    #5302743 - 02/15/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

well gues you proved me wrong so if someone would build a time machine and go back 2000 years and tell jesus thankyou for loving a guy hes never even met or born yet would be greatly apreciated.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5302816 - 02/15/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Jesus the man may have died 2000 years ago, but Christ is eternal. He lives here and now.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5302889 - 02/15/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Jesus the man may have died 2000 years ago, but Christ is eternal.  He lives here and now, the Christed self, In our Higher Hearts.




By higher heart, I don't mean the lower heart that knows jealousy, possessiveness, pain, resentment, guilt or anger. I mean the higher heart that just knows compassionate unconditional love for all and forgiveness. We all have a Christed self to tap into. Jesus was just one of many humans over time who showed us the way into the sacred heart.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5303686 - 02/15/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

yup read one of the gospels nerdwombater then tell me jesus virtues are not better than yours?


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"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
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"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Silversoul]
    #5303740 - 02/15/06 04:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Jesus the man may have died 2000 years ago, but Christ is eternal. He lives here and now.




Eh, yup.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineRainbowDrops
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5304023 - 02/15/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DeathCompany said:
yeah same with all these other jesus loving retards



Love is godly, and if any man can find love through a being, so be it. Jesus is a tool, aside from a man- of which many have bettered their lives. Bettering is good & good is sure alright, I say. :wink: It is the twisting of faith that you should really consider "retarded". Expand, man...c'mon now. :tongue2: :heart:


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mmmm, spacecake


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Offlineleery11
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: RainbowDrops]
    #5304104 - 02/15/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

there isn't particularly a ton of evidence that says Jesus even existed in the first place.

the whole thing is very controversial, but at any rate, why do you feel that you have to harm yourself in order to attain salvation? That's a self-destructive drive and I can't see it leading you anywhere.

This is why I do not like Christianity, heaven and hell are equally infathomable dualities that paralyze the intellect and people wind up becoming Christian not because of all the good aspects, but because the bad aspects of the religion have scared them very badly.

If the whole Jesus thing is how people think it is, then it means that you don't have to go through what he went through, you just need to let him repalce your ego with his pure being.

The concept of a savior is meaningless unless you FIRST create a hell for people to be afraid of. This keeps them operating in a constant paradox where their lives are controlled with fear. It's similar to how the war on terror and the media work.

Though I do see symbolic beauty in the Christ figure, willing to step through HUMANITIES shadow, not just his own, and attempting to let others gain merit from his work. In actuality though if he beared the burdens of the very nature of sin itself, why should it matter that we believe in him? He is lodged deeper into the collective mind than anything else ever could be, is he not? Why then is he not there to lead EVERYONE into salvation no matter what they have come to believe? Why need faith in something that is really unfathonably confusing, unreasonable, and shourded in the corruptions of the world.

Christianity as a movement has done much harm to the entire world..... is it supposed to be that way, to truely test people's faith? See, the questioning never ends.

Where are the answers? If there is a Jesus I would more than like to feel a firm conviction so that I could allow him to heal and transform me, but I'm very skeptical. I find it easier to put faith in universal love than in a hypothetical man.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (02/15/06 06:27 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: leery11]
    #5304463 - 02/15/06 07:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

there isn't particularly a ton of evidence that says Jesus even existed in the first place.




The dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in a cave in 1942 containing the gospels of Mary Magdalene where all she does is talk about the teachings of the man known as Jesus. The scrolls were carbon dated back to that time period.

She made mention that he taught there was no such thing as sin. Its a no wonder the church kept them out and stashed them away.

For plays sake, lets say many people of the distant past made his WHOLE life story up. Whoever, wrote the words of what he taught, wrote some WISE stuff. Thats what people appeal to, the teachings themselves, no matter who taught them.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5304540 - 02/15/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

find me some sources. Right now you're just relying on tenacity....

I'm trying to dig one up from the "he isn't real" side.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

I don't know what to believe, and I don't think it's safe for anyone to assume that they do with matters like these. It would help if Jesus had made his own writings I suppose.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: leery11]
    #5304584 - 02/15/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Anyone can google up translated copies of the Dead Sea scrolls and reasearch information about them.

I'm just giving one example of something that acts as a piece of possible evidence. If it may for you and you are sincerely interested, you can research it for yourself.

Ultimately, like I said, its the words of the teachings themselves that matter most to people, not the lump of flesh they came out of.

Say a group of people made it all up. How does that effect the golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

Does it really matter who said that or when?

Its one of the dozens of pathways forged into our higher hearts of compassion, fellow feeling, and putting ourselves in someone else shoes. We can choose to follow it there and see how it changes life for us or ignore it.

I doubt anyone here cares to convince you of anything, at least I know I don't. People are just sharing their beleifs and reasons why they have them about him and or the teachings made in his name.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5304616 - 02/15/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It matters very much if he is or isn't real, because if he is just a fiction then it's just another example of people being controlled by nefarious agencies.

His teachings are valuable, yes, absolutely, but the religion that has built up underneath has served to almost make him look like a false idol in my eyes, because though his teachings are great, so many "devout" followers don't listen to them at all.

So I mean, if Christ is real then it has a lot to say for Christianity and I would hope for a Christian revolution for people to get tuned into Christ-consciousness and detach from their governments and churches..... however if he isn't real then it just sickens me that the religion is carrying on the way it is and I'm not sure if there is much hope in it.

But all in all its just philosophy and it doesn't matter. Jesus had some good teachings, and that's all that matters. You are right there. All religous figures have great teachings.

I'm just really hung up because I surely do want to be able to believe in Christ and Amitabha and the various Buddhas, and Christ is the focus of my doubt right now. I suppose for some they NEED to believe in the literal Jesus in order to live good lives, but for some it's just about the messages that all religions share in common.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (02/15/06 08:38 PM)


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OfflineNerdleWombanger
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: blaze2]
    #5304703 - 02/15/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Jesus's virtues are not better than mine.


Edited by NerdleWombanger (02/15/06 09:03 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: leery11]
    #5304713 - 02/15/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I hear you there. :cool:

I don't know of any regular in this forum that appreciates what Christs Consciousness has to offer us that belong to any religion or go to and support a church.

People who do must for other reasons. In the Gospels of Mary she says Jesus said something to the effect of, "Do not beleive what you are told to go here or there looking for me. I am within you. Follow me there."

I hear you about church corruption. That should be able to stand independent of following his teachings that even stated for his followers not to start religions in his name because he said they would become corrupt.

I have no idea how or why the church insitutions have lasted this long. I don't think it has much to do with Jesus's existance though. Look at the Church of Scientology which has millions of members and nothing to do with Jesus.

I think some need to turn to an external authority source to tell them right from wrong, or how it is, or how to be or live, because they havn't learned how to trust what's in their hearts yet. :shrug:

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5304812 - 02/15/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I haven't learned how to trust that either.

everything below my navel is painful and disruptive. The two are directly related though I don't know if that makes sense to most. Maybe I should tell my yoga teacher about it.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: four_winds]
    #5304943 - 02/15/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Jesus is just our modern day dead Osiris and live Horus.

Instead of trying to reenact Jesus' suffering, why don't you try for the Egyptian gods? They were the originals, after all, and the stories are much better.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: leery11]
    #5304968 - 02/15/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Sure blockages are easily understandable. The heart is usually the first people shut down. The pain felt in the lower heart can be the most excruciating. Some have that open, yet it gets clogged up and blocked with anger, resentment or guilt or all of them. Thats probably why the J-man taught non judgment and forgiveness so much. It opens the way into the higher heart.

I have found it is a primo way for allowing your feelings to be open, exposed and vulnerable. If you can be self compassionate, understanding and forgiving, it's easier to keep the heart open and energy flowing.

I don't know what your Yoga teacher knows about releasing energy blocks, but it can't hurt to bring it up and it may help if she/he has some methods.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineNerdleWombanger
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Ravus]
    #5305047 - 02/15/06 10:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Jesus is just our modern day dead Osiris and live Horus.

Instead of trying to reenact Jesus' suffering, why don't you try for the Egyptian gods? They were the originals, after all, and the stories are much better.




:cool: :thumbup:

Our gods the fun god! Our gods the sun god! Ra! Ra! Ra!


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: NerdleWombanger]
    #5305189 - 02/16/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

do you mind if i call it potato crisps instead of christ, or perhaps mahogony.. yeah i like that word.

mahogony is eternal and is with us now and forever.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: faslimy]
    #5305207 - 02/16/06 12:10 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

faslimy said:
do you mind if i call it potato crisps instead of christ, or perhaps mahogony.. yeah i like that word.

mahogony is eternal and is with us now and forever.




:jennajameson:


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: leery11]
    #5305577 - 02/16/06 05:32 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Your understanding is "Literalist" and therefore easy to be dismissive of. Why not read Freke's & Gandy's The Jesus Mysteries and see for yourself what the difference is between "Literalist" and Gnostic Christianity? Anyone with any psychedelic experience at all would benefit from their book, particularly if one has at all intuited 'something' about Christ and has struggled with the ridiculousness of Fundamentalist Literalism. This book is like pouring bloom-enhancer on a young budding plant and watching large gorgeous flowers emerge before your eyes!



Don't be put off by the unfortunate choice of subtitle, which is deceptive and which is what delayed my own reading of the book.

Peace & Truth
-MtG


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Ravus]
    #5305584 - 02/16/06 05:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I tend to agree with you, but it is so hard to find an ancient Egyptian temple around town that we've decorated our living room with statues of Osirus-Horus-Isis opposite our Gnostic Christian corner.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5308665 - 02/16/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

In my opinion christianity was a semi descent idea but people changed it into something else. Also the only reason people believe in it is because they want to have some reassurance of life after death and not because they actually feel sorry for jesus or believe in his morals


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5309082 - 02/16/06 10:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Well, the original Christians were 'gnostic' in their experiential and non-dogmatic attitudes. They were also the first depth psychologists according to C.G. Jung who recognized different levels of understanding among people. It is erroneous to make a blanket statement about 'Christians,' because I consider myself to be one in a 'Gnostic' sense, not in a 'Psychic' sense (those who understand the myths to mean historical events). There were at least 3 and sometimes 4 levels of understanding among people which the Gnostics labelled:
Hylic
Psychic
Pneumatic
Gnostic

Most Christians - especially the literalist Fundamental kind - are Psychic Christians. They believe not only in a material-historical Jesus and events, but also that the particular doctrine one believes is either saving or damning. We have seen a couple of these people at the Shroomery and they are virulently fanatical about who holds what doctrine in mind. Hylics were complete materialists and really don't rate as any kind of Christian.

Pneumatic [spiritual] Christians hold transcendental perspectives which derive from transcendental experiences (Holy Consciousness {Spirit}). Such experiences transcend rational and therefore doctrinal formulations. They are informed by immediate inner experience, not external authorities and traditions (which are usually mere propaganda and false doctrine instituted originally by the Roman Church and inherited by Protestantism).

Gnostic Christians have undergone what the Orthodox Church calls 'theosis' - such Christians have become Christs and do not need to cling to the forms of the Biblical myths. They have been transformed into the type of beings that the alleged words of Jesus referred to as "Know ye not that ye are gods?," in the sense of self-knowledge, the self-realization that Christ is the Universal Soul of humankind. This realization results in awareness of Eternal Life, not superstitious 'immortality' of a perishable ego.

This isn't 'New Age' fluff, this is classical Gnostic Christianity. It is compatible with the inner traditions of other religions including Judaism and Islam, not to mention Hinduism and Buddhism. It is only the Psychic Christians' exoteric and surface understanding that makes those repulsive and reprehensible claims to the only way and all others be damned. Fundamentalism is the real heresy - hate and exclusivity in sheep's clothing; the reduction of the central Mystery of Resurrection to a creepy resusitation of moldering corpses or ashes to a magical reanimation on a 'New Earth.' Such is the stuff of babes, yet the majority of so-called Christians are at best babes and worst hate mongers.

Sorry for the rant.

-MtG


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5309192 - 02/16/06 11:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What if you realize christ-consciousness and still believe the "myths" mind you I dont believe them in an absolutely literal sense, but as allegory. I do believe in angels and God's miracles and all that jazz man. I believe in an "actual" God. A higher power. I believe that the children of Isreal were truly prophets. Do I get lumped with the "Psychics"? I believe in nothing they do as far as how to go about htings because they go against the word in most all of their works.


Labels are silly man. Gnostic, christian, jew, musslim, whatever its all the same. Man is man, and as such our souls(assuming they exist) must all be similar. God cannot be a God of only one people, for Him to be all powerfull. God is God of all men. When I talk to God(yes I talk to God, no I'm not insane, when people say this I've come to understand they are really asking their feelings for guidance.) it is no different than when a Musslim talks to Allah.

what you or anyone believe as far as the past is irrelevent God doesnt care. we are individual cases to him, there is no free ticket, and adding a label and making a habit of any kind of worhip means nothing if you do not follow the teachings.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: blaze2]
    #5311181 - 02/17/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I talk to God. I also am not insane (although insanity is a legal term, not a clinical term). Labels are not silly. Yes, 'purely' allegorical understanding does lump one in primarily with Psychic Christians, but these labels are more like markings on a thermometer. We are all 'thermometers' but our Mercury (alchemical symbol for consciousness) is not as 'High' as we would like it to be. Like the Kundalini-Shakti model. We have our moments of Union, but then that Union at the Saharara has to descend to the Root. It nevertheless 'opens' the Centers on the way up and on the way down so we come to dwell more often in higher centers. Thus we grow.

It is not about doctrinal labels here, it is about marking certain perspectives, regardless of whether one is a Gnostic Christian or a Gnostic Muslim (and there are both). It is about the degrees of experience with Divinity, not about outer (exoteric) forms and differences. I can understand the Gnostic perspective of the crucifixion of Christ from both Christian and Muslim perspectives. He WAS crucified. He WASN'T crucified - both for different principles. It is like I can grok the Othodox Christian use of leavened bread for the Eucharist because the Bread, which is Christ, has 'Risen.' That's one way of looking at the symbolism. I can also grok the use of unleavened bread for the Eucharist based on the myth of the Bread of Affliction that the Hebrews hastily baked without it having had a chance to rise, for their rapid Exodus from Egyptian slavery, wherein Egypt symbolizes ensnarement in the world.

Historically taken, the problem is insoluble and unsolvable - there will always be only one, historically accurate event, but I am not arguing for any historicity here. I am not an exoteric Christian, I am esoteric, seeking the inner meaning which is salvific. I do not hold to the 'vicarious sacrifice' for my sins. Only a demonic god would be propitiated thusly. A physical death on the cross by Y'shua is not what I believe saves me. Resurrection is salvific, but neither do I believe in a physical resusitation of my body, or of Jesus' body. Resurrection might be 'depicted' that way for children and 1st century simpletons (or for today's children and simps), but it remains a transcendental Mystery for me.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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