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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: leery11]
    #5305577 - 02/16/06 05:32 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Your understanding is "Literalist" and therefore easy to be dismissive of. Why not read Freke's & Gandy's The Jesus Mysteries and see for yourself what the difference is between "Literalist" and Gnostic Christianity? Anyone with any psychedelic experience at all would benefit from their book, particularly if one has at all intuited 'something' about Christ and has struggled with the ridiculousness of Fundamentalist Literalism. This book is like pouring bloom-enhancer on a young budding plant and watching large gorgeous flowers emerge before your eyes!



Don't be put off by the unfortunate choice of subtitle, which is deceptive and which is what delayed my own reading of the book.

Peace & Truth
-MtG


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: Ravus]
    #5305584 - 02/16/06 05:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I tend to agree with you, but it is so hard to find an ancient Egyptian temple around town that we've decorated our living room with statues of Osirus-Horus-Isis opposite our Gnostic Christian corner.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5308665 - 02/16/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

In my opinion christianity was a semi descent idea but people changed it into something else. Also the only reason people believe in it is because they want to have some reassurance of life after death and not because they actually feel sorry for jesus or believe in his morals


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5309082 - 02/16/06 10:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Well, the original Christians were 'gnostic' in their experiential and non-dogmatic attitudes. They were also the first depth psychologists according to C.G. Jung who recognized different levels of understanding among people. It is erroneous to make a blanket statement about 'Christians,' because I consider myself to be one in a 'Gnostic' sense, not in a 'Psychic' sense (those who understand the myths to mean historical events). There were at least 3 and sometimes 4 levels of understanding among people which the Gnostics labelled:
Hylic
Psychic
Pneumatic
Gnostic

Most Christians - especially the literalist Fundamental kind - are Psychic Christians. They believe not only in a material-historical Jesus and events, but also that the particular doctrine one believes is either saving or damning. We have seen a couple of these people at the Shroomery and they are virulently fanatical about who holds what doctrine in mind. Hylics were complete materialists and really don't rate as any kind of Christian.

Pneumatic [spiritual] Christians hold transcendental perspectives which derive from transcendental experiences (Holy Consciousness {Spirit}). Such experiences transcend rational and therefore doctrinal formulations. They are informed by immediate inner experience, not external authorities and traditions (which are usually mere propaganda and false doctrine instituted originally by the Roman Church and inherited by Protestantism).

Gnostic Christians have undergone what the Orthodox Church calls 'theosis' - such Christians have become Christs and do not need to cling to the forms of the Biblical myths. They have been transformed into the type of beings that the alleged words of Jesus referred to as "Know ye not that ye are gods?," in the sense of self-knowledge, the self-realization that Christ is the Universal Soul of humankind. This realization results in awareness of Eternal Life, not superstitious 'immortality' of a perishable ego.

This isn't 'New Age' fluff, this is classical Gnostic Christianity. It is compatible with the inner traditions of other religions including Judaism and Islam, not to mention Hinduism and Buddhism. It is only the Psychic Christians' exoteric and surface understanding that makes those repulsive and reprehensible claims to the only way and all others be damned. Fundamentalism is the real heresy - hate and exclusivity in sheep's clothing; the reduction of the central Mystery of Resurrection to a creepy resusitation of moldering corpses or ashes to a magical reanimation on a 'New Earth.' Such is the stuff of babes, yet the majority of so-called Christians are at best babes and worst hate mongers.

Sorry for the rant.

-MtG


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5309192 - 02/16/06 11:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What if you realize christ-consciousness and still believe the "myths" mind you I dont believe them in an absolutely literal sense, but as allegory. I do believe in angels and God's miracles and all that jazz man. I believe in an "actual" God. A higher power. I believe that the children of Isreal were truly prophets. Do I get lumped with the "Psychics"? I believe in nothing they do as far as how to go about htings because they go against the word in most all of their works.


Labels are silly man. Gnostic, christian, jew, musslim, whatever its all the same. Man is man, and as such our souls(assuming they exist) must all be similar. God cannot be a God of only one people, for Him to be all powerfull. God is God of all men. When I talk to God(yes I talk to God, no I'm not insane, when people say this I've come to understand they are really asking their feelings for guidance.) it is no different than when a Musslim talks to Allah.

what you or anyone believe as far as the past is irrelevent God doesnt care. we are individual cases to him, there is no free ticket, and adding a label and making a habit of any kind of worhip means nothing if you do not follow the teachings.


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"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the pain of Jesus, that I could not bear [Re: blaze2]
    #5311181 - 02/17/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I talk to God. I also am not insane (although insanity is a legal term, not a clinical term). Labels are not silly. Yes, 'purely' allegorical understanding does lump one in primarily with Psychic Christians, but these labels are more like markings on a thermometer. We are all 'thermometers' but our Mercury (alchemical symbol for consciousness) is not as 'High' as we would like it to be. Like the Kundalini-Shakti model. We have our moments of Union, but then that Union at the Saharara has to descend to the Root. It nevertheless 'opens' the Centers on the way up and on the way down so we come to dwell more often in higher centers. Thus we grow.

It is not about doctrinal labels here, it is about marking certain perspectives, regardless of whether one is a Gnostic Christian or a Gnostic Muslim (and there are both). It is about the degrees of experience with Divinity, not about outer (exoteric) forms and differences. I can understand the Gnostic perspective of the crucifixion of Christ from both Christian and Muslim perspectives. He WAS crucified. He WASN'T crucified - both for different principles. It is like I can grok the Othodox Christian use of leavened bread for the Eucharist because the Bread, which is Christ, has 'Risen.' That's one way of looking at the symbolism. I can also grok the use of unleavened bread for the Eucharist based on the myth of the Bread of Affliction that the Hebrews hastily baked without it having had a chance to rise, for their rapid Exodus from Egyptian slavery, wherein Egypt symbolizes ensnarement in the world.

Historically taken, the problem is insoluble and unsolvable - there will always be only one, historically accurate event, but I am not arguing for any historicity here. I am not an exoteric Christian, I am esoteric, seeking the inner meaning which is salvific. I do not hold to the 'vicarious sacrifice' for my sins. Only a demonic god would be propitiated thusly. A physical death on the cross by Y'shua is not what I believe saves me. Resurrection is salvific, but neither do I believe in a physical resusitation of my body, or of Jesus' body. Resurrection might be 'depicted' that way for children and 1st century simpletons (or for today's children and simps), but it remains a transcendental Mystery for me.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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