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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Well, I guess this really does all come down to one's personal outlook after all. 
I guess I'm so used to thinking of civilization as a mistake that I take it for granted that other people do too.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
Edited by gluke bastid (02/16/06 02:12 PM)
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BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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its not about "giving up" on life. its about questioning its usefullness. is there a purpose to creating more life? WHY should anyone continue. even if we could bring children into heaven, we still wouldnt know what we were taking them from. is it our right? can i(should i?) force my children to be responsible for the life they didnt ask for? IS IT NESSISARY?
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
Edited by BleaK (02/16/06 04:01 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: BleaK]
#5308095 - 02/16/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Again, most people I know, myself and daughter included are glad to be here.
However, I personally have no doubts about eternal existence so to me this one life is just a nano second and not even that, compared to eternity.
I also have ZERO doubts that we choose to incarnate into bodies here. I have zero doubt that souls are lined up just waiting for bodies to open up for them to be born into. A lot of it is preplanned as many stay in soul groups and journey through same life times together playing different roles for each other.
Lately, many expectant mothers and fathers are getting pre birth visits from their children to come. I had many from my daughter, They were awesome.
Later I learned, it was a pretty common thing. People just don't talk about it in casual conversation or are careful who they share such an experience with. I think it was neat.
Knowing what I understand do be so, supports my enthusiasm for life here.
It's the hugest decision one could ever make as the responsibility and change in your life is beyond what you can imagine. Don't take it lightly that's for sure. I implore more to take it seriously because if people did, there would be next to no suffering people.
Anyone who hates life, can't handle it and can't make the most of its riches and wonders and wants it to end for all, definitely should not be having children. Its a no wonder why some with that attitude see it as forcing a life into hellish existance. With parents like that it would be.
Another doom and gloom post about life here went up today. I'm starting to realize, I am only hearing this attitude at the shroomery. Its making me wonder, how many of you may be clinical depressed and use drugs to alleviate it , hence, why so many depressed people are here. Depression is thick around this place.
I'm also curious if any depressive type drugs are causing the lousy attitudes. For those of you who think life, the planet and people suck and that we are all doomed, can I ask, what drugs, alcohol included, you use and how regularly?
We have a group energy healing post going at another forum to help people. I am going to put in request for you all who feel doomy gllomy to feel the LOVE, and have some experience soon that will turn things around for you! 
I don't get whats going on here. I don't hear this talk anywhere else.
I'll share my daughters pre birth visits experiences with you here. This was back before I wasn't aware of much beyond the physical at all, except for what Catholicism taught me,(which much I debunked) a few reincarnation books in my teens and some Buddhism & Hinduism books in my early 20s. I was a windsurfing bartender in the islands living for the day at hand and playing hard.
The first visit was while basking in the after glow of some afternoon delight with the hubby, I felt a strong pull at my solar plexus. Then I saw a ball about a foot in diameter of deep golden dynamic sparking light. Like what a thickly condenced 4th of July sparkler would look like.
I then started to feel like something was tickling me and I started giggling. Next I heard the laughter of a young girl. I saw these beautiful and older serious looking angels off to the side.
Then it all faded. I turned to my husband and said, if we ever have children, the first will be a girl and I think I just met her.
Sometimes while making love, angels would be swooping all around. I could feel the breeze from their robes on my skin. It was wild. Then she started popping up and talking with me, telling me things saying we had to open the way for her to come in, and it was important that she be here, the planet was about to go through a huge change, stuff like that.
After one of those chats, which always seemed to happen in an after glow, I told my husband and he said with eye brows down, "I believe you, she just came and told me the same stuff". It freaked him out to realize something of an extra ordinary nature was going on. He shut off to it soon. He wanted to wait until we were better financially established and so did I.
She got on my case to get on his insisting that things would be okay and to bring her in and for him to open up to talking with her again. He wouldn't.
There were many of those like visits until she got us to get off birth control and then the visits began to lean more towards prepping me to carry and raise her. I was put through some high speed awakening growth and lots of instructions for how she was to raised.
A year and a half after that first visit, while basking in an after glow, I saw a bunch of tiny light bubbles swirling all around the room. It was awesome. That was the day.
Years later, I found out lots of people were having similar experiences and were being told similar things. These kids wanting to come in want to come to help make this world a better place. They are looking for parents to be who will help them to do it.
Thats what got me into all of this spirituality stuff and reawakening and remembering more then just this life.
Thats the gist of it. And no I wasn't using any drugs back then either. It was a lot to swallow and I went into denial of a lot happening back then that I couldn't explain to myself.
Maybe that will help to explain a little of why I see this topic differently. 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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i certainly cant argue with the voices in your head.
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: BleaK]
#5309021 - 02/16/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thats right, you can't!
Why would you want to argue in favor of the destruction of human life and that it is going to happen soon?
Is that neccesary to do, wish to cease life instead of create new life?
What would be the point or purpose in doing that?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said:
Thats right, you can't!
Why would you want to argue in favor of the destruction of human life and that it is going to happen soon?
why not, what do we have to gain here? aside from joy.Quote:
Is that neccesary to do, wish to cease life instead of create new life?
What would be the point or purpose in doing that?
to end suffering.
and yes i know im arguing for the end of joy as well.
or rather, im posing the question of the value of them both.
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: BleaK]
#5309244 - 02/16/06 11:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Realizing human potential is an awesome experience. So is making dreams come true. Sharing your life experiences with people you love rocks. That feeling of becoming creatively inspired and seeing what you can create and accomplish is a great feeling. I could go on all day giving reasons for appreciating this life experience.
What I can't do is argue reason for it with anyone who is depressed. I know that feeling too, went through it in my teens. Even the experience of coming out of that is awesome.
Remember you guys, Jim Jones in the 70s convinced people that the end of the world was coming soon and they should commit suicide so they wouldn't have to suffer through it. Well, its 30 years later and the huge portion of the last 30 years of my life as been sweeeeeeeeeet!
Jim Jones was full of cacca. 
I think of all the good times and good things my family has experienced in just the last year alone. One year here can be so precious and awesome. Moment by Moment life can be if you make it so. I just fought like a mother fucker to change my attitude around a long time ago. I got pissed off and vowed I wasn't going to let anyones bad attitudes including my own, (media especially) rob me of living life to the full and from making as many dreams come true as possible.
Every day, I kick my self in the ass to go for the max of living the good life within and without. The type of people you surround yourself with can make a HUGE difference. 
Instead of wishing life away, why not just work to overcome the suffering parts and help others do the same? The good is worth it. It starts from a place in your heart. Look for it there. It knows the way.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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i do understand appreciation. i experience it. the root of my question feels un-adressed still. i will leave it in its 2 or 3 verses in previous posts.
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: BleaK]
#5309333 - 02/17/06 12:20 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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You mean your question about its usefulness?
How useful is non existence? That is totally useless.
You'd have to start with also asking, relative to what, when asking for its use? What else is there to compare life's use to but deaths use? What is the use of death and non existence?
At least with life and existence, we get to decide HOW we are going to use it and what we can do with it. Realizing that, the adventure of discovery, including self discovery starts to call and inspire one.
Start with death and non existence. Now, BAM, you have your body alive and all of existence to work with. What can do with these two things? The options and choices are endless. We have the tools of creativity, intelligence, will power, imagination, raw materials, realization, contemplation, reflection, memory, foresight, and all sorts of forces of nature to work with.
How can anyone not see that as being something Awesome to get in on and USE any way they wish to?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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BleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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is the bong load half green or half smoked?
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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MiRrOr
Zeta Reticulan

Registered: 05/09/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: Silversoul]
#5309572 - 02/17/06 05:48 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Quote:
gluke bastid said: So maybe for the sake of argument let's say civilization cannot be changed. Would you still make babies?
Yes. I like civilization, in spite of its flaws. I guess I'm just an optimist.
well im a "pessimist" with a sumwhat positive outlook on life/things in life, and i can confirm that one person does have the power to change society...
he/she may not be overthrowing the US government or anything like that, but can sort of implant positive values of COMPASSSION into their children...
-------------------- "i don't mind the sun sometimes, the images it shows....i can taste you on my lips and smell you in my clothes....cinnamon, and sugary, and softly spoken lies, ya never know just how ya look in other peoples eyes"
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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I live very much, too, that is why I am very mad about people who make this place a big shit, only for their personal pleasure. I am not able to dance anymore.
You ask me, what I am doing about or against it. My next car will be one, which will run on vegetable oil. I work in a very special private company, with over 1000 employes which is entangled with military, private companies and civil departments. I work on a sensible position and I kept my mind from running totally insane by seeing what is happening there. Perhaps I will write tons of books about that, if I will find the time, haha. I see with my own eyes, what power and money can do to morality. And people who go dancing while their neighbours will starve won't bring this planet or humans anybit more forward. You know my mental state. Another thing I do is sharing this view. In the company where I work, I have to be more silent, of course, but soon this will change. Most certainly they will rip me in thin air, but...some things aomeone should not do or let be done to oneself, of course. That is the dilemma of money, dependence and morality.
Do YOU need money to live ? I think you said sometimes something like this. Then go to a place without people and try to live by money. Much fun with that...
If your beach will be nuclear wasted fo some million years or frozen over in summer, perhaps you will remember my words and stop wondering and start to understand..
Yes, but as someone said before, children are there to change this place to the better side, of course. We were tried to be misinformed and ill-educated.
Edited by BlueCoyote (02/17/06 10:23 AM)
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secretmachine
lover of mystery

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 72
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5310084 - 02/17/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wish to add to this child thread we have going here. For me its not as if i dont want "\children but they take alot of responsibility, alot of money and a ton of time. Add that to the fact that our species is in no danger of dieing out (at least, dieing out due to nobody having children). Personally my theory is we are here to learn and grow and having children in todays world would only retard that self growth. If i didnt have children, i would have that extra money, time and energy to enhance my life, and others around me. Perhaps if i lived in a different culture where children werent such a big huge deal i would do it, but with our increasingly insane money system--no thanks.
-------------------- --- A civilization based on authority-and-submission is a civilization without the means of self-correction. Effective communication flows only one way: from master-group to servile-group. Any cyberneticist knows that such a one-way communication channel lacks feedback and cannot behave "intelligently." the principle of authority" was the "eminently theological, metaphysical and political idea that the masses, always incapable of governing themselves, must submit at all times to the benevolent yoke of a wisdom and a justice, which in one way or another, is imposed from above." "no one should be entrusted with power, inasmuch as anyone invested with authority must . . . became an oppressor and exploiter of society."
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: gluke bastid]
#5310451 - 02/17/06 01:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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"If you are convinced that the world is a bad place...that our current civilization is sort of a problem, a trap that humanity is stuck in and probably won't get out of unless there is total destruction...is it immoral to bear and raise children?"
Really stupid question. The world has always been fucked up in various ways. If your waiting for perfection until you have children, then take up masturbation as a life long avocation.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: secretmachine]
#5310635 - 02/17/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Absolutely Secret the responsibility involved, to me, is as large as it gets. Though not all people who have children take it that seriously and its a no wonder we are where we are as a collective of humans. Priorities! Where are they?
I still don't understand why teachers are not the highest paid people on the planet and trained in more then just ramming facts down kids brains so they can pass the tests and get the schools more government money and we call this educationg the children to lead productive and constructive adult lives . I feel a rant coming on and I will spare you all of it.
To the general on this overall topic-
It is easy to find fault with all that is ass backwards on this planet if you look for it. I could write all day about that too.
The feeling passes quickly as I move my way back into appreciating all we have NOW that is good and into understanding, why some people in the world are hurting so much. If I let the down side of life get to me, I will just become another one of them, the people we think of being burdens and weights on this planet, the "suffering, needy, hopeless and impoverished".
Think of what it would take to do something destructive to the planet and humans. It would take, having no appreciation for it, or any sense of value of its worth or use. If thats the mentality anyone is in, they are in the same one that causes all of the crap here in the first place, even if they are taking a passive role self destructing.
Once someone gives up, they have no reason to work to turn anything around any more, mostly for themselves. I ask, where is the spirit in people? Pull it in if you've been denying its entry into your life. It is so powerful it can light the darkest of days, lift the heaviest of hearts, and break free the most imprisoned of minds.
People can get knocked down again and again, yet if they have the spirit to get back up, they will with its help and they'll start making new choices and avoid those that knocked them down before.
Hey Blue, ever hear of something called a Whistle Blower? ONE took Enron down and exposed its corruption. Are you implying that the company you work for has plans to wipe out masses of people, or destroy portions of the planet? Please correct me on that if it is a miss-assumption. 
And you plan to write a book about how you helped them do it after the fact? What are you talking about? I hope you clear that up.
Id my beach were to freeze over, I will Ice skate on it. The eskimos seem to be doing just fine.
Have any of you come through hard times and adversity before, all the stronger and wiser for it? If you haven't then, maybe it is your time if you beleive so and there is nothing much I can do, save, give you words to draw from when the shit hits your fans. If your fans aren't even spinning anymore, the shit will just stick and bog you down even more. Get those heart chakras whirly birding and deflect it all away from you.
There are so many games being played out in this game world right now. I'm not clueless about the crap that is yet headed this way for people. It's always been that way. There are times lines where this planet has been blown up over and over again.
Learn to jump the lines with a shifts in vibration, with thoughts and feelings. Then you can become a time travelling tweeker of them, or a weaver of them, so many interesting things to do here once you remember its all a game of life and that everyone wins because spirit can never be lost, loose or destroyed. IT remains the eternal power behind it all. Align with it and Voila!
Nothing is etched in stone until its etched in stone and even then, the winds of time erode those etchings away as well. With new choices, you can shift to new time line branches and avoid it all and even shift to those where people are beyond surviving and are thriving with beautiful lives and futures to look forward too.
Choice is such a powerful thing and it can make or break you.
Thats what helps me to be able to read through threads like this and not get brought down by them. We were all given the free will to choose for ourselves what we will into being.
Some may say, "Why would I choose to go down with a planet set for self destruction?" I will say and ask, "I don't know. Why would you choose that game plan?" There are many others to choose from if you change your mind or heart about that.
To each his own.
Life in spirit is eternal and beyond that, what can be destroyed was never meant to last. Enjoy of it while it is here and create more to enjoy with what is here and share it with others. When you find yourself in the life of spirit that is eternal, you are released from anything to fear, because it has nothing to fear. Instead, you start making choices based on all that is to love, respect and appreciate.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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robmac9090
typical tadpole

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 81
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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jiggy, you have inspired me. I love reading your posts and agree with much of what you say.
I still may not be quite as optimistic as you are, but I think I have a much more positive outlook on the world now. I took a look back at the history of the last hundred years and I can see amazing accomplishments. We've gone from horses to cars, from smoke signals to e-mail, and from outhouses to toilets. People can create, communicate, travel, and experience in ways that would have surely seemed impossible in the past. After realising this, I can see now that the future holds amazing possiblities...and I think I would like my children to be a part of it.
However I am not ignorant to the fact that bad things have, and will continue to happen. Wikipedia tells me that over 60 million died in WWII, which to me is an incomprehensible number of lives. Even today there is so much hatred and anger from one person to another it is insane. I can't believe racism still exists, but I can't ever see it ending either (people probably said this about slavery too, so maybe there's hope).
Looking back now, I don't know what exactly I have to complain about. Even at the absolute worst, I will have shelter, I will have food, I will have my mind, and I will have this giant planet to explore. I think it's time to get out of my cocoon, find something I want to be a part of, and see where it takes me (and my children ).
Excellent Topic!!
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: robmac9090]
#5312504 - 02/18/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Indeed the best is yet to come to all those staying alive because life is a wonderful thing to be a part of when you choose living over being the living dead. Every time someone turns their attitude around like you did, the world has one less person trying to take us all down and out.
If everyone on the planet turned their attitude around to keeping focus on the good, being good and doing good, wars, poverity, crime, things to fear would all end.
I refuse to support lousy attitudes about a lousy world. Its lousy attitudes that create the lousy world they experience see and live in.
Sure, I pitched a mini bitch about the educational system, yet you won't here me cry victim or defeat. Where there is a will there is a way to meet your ideals and dream realities. I homeschool my daughter. There's a way through, around, and above everything that appears dark and daunting to a bright sunny side. And the spirit to find it will show you the way. It hasn't failed me yet.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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My company sells technology. 95% of our employees are engineers or doctors of all kind of sciences. I formerly said I entered the lions-cave, trying to wake up the victims and not wake up the lion. I will write about the mis-circumstances in regards of humanity, power and technology, that is why I entered there. Hehe, and I have material for not only one tiny book, this stuff could fill half of a library  It is incredible to see how power is structuring all this planet and tries to get grip on it more and more to disobey morality and humanity or else. I definitifely put these values above the power... Pure power corrupts extensively and our planet and humans future are in immense danger, compared to the ancient treats of poor technology.
Edit to the thread:Don't let your children be corrupted or don't try to corrupt them by yourself then it is all good to bear children
Edited by BlueCoyote (02/18/06 02:47 AM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5313470 - 02/18/06 01:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks for clearing that one up. I think I addressed what you see about technology as causing a back slide in skorps lazy thinking post. Fortunately, many are aware and work to keep pace and balance.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Having Children if the world were to end [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5316948 - 02/19/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: "If you are convinced that the world is a bad place...that our current civilization is sort of a problem, a trap that humanity is stuck in and probably won't get out of unless there is total destruction...is it immoral to bear and raise children?"
Really stupid question. The world has always been fucked up in various ways. If your waiting for perfection until you have children, then take up masturbation as a life long avocation.
It's only a stupid question because you assume that I have any sort of desire to have children. I don't. I also don't think the world is, or ever will be, perfect. I'm not waiting for anything. Please don't call my question stupid. I am honestly just trying to understand why people are having kids. To me it just doesn't make any fucking sense and I am trying to get a grasp on what the motivation is. I literally cannot think of one argument for having a child.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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