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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Dick Cheney shoots man
#5291992 - 02/12/06 04:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot and wounded a companion during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, spraying the fellow hunter in the face and chest with shotgun pellets.
Harry Whittington, a millionaire attorney from Austin, was ?alert and doing fine? in a Corpus Christi hospital Sunday after he was shot by Cheney on a ranch in south Texas, said Katharine Armstrong, the property?s owner.
He was described as in stable condition by Yvonne Wheeler, spokeswoman for the Christus Spohn Health System in Corpus Christi.
Story continues below ↓ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- advertisement
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Armstrong in an interview with The Associated Press said Whittington, 78, was mostly injured on his right side, with the pellets hitting his cheek, neck and chest during the incident which occurred late afternoon on Saturday
She said emergency personnel traveling with Cheney tended to Whittington until the ambulance arrived.
Cheney?s spokeswoman, Lea Anne McBride, said the vice president was with Whittington and his wife at the hospital on Sunday.
Cheney's office delays announcement The shooting was first reported by the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. The vice president?s office did not disclose the accident until nearly 24 hours after it happened.
Armstrong said she was watching from a car while Cheney, Whittington and another hunter got out of the vehicle to shoot at a covey of quail.
Whittington shot a bird and went to look for it in the tall grass, while Cheney and the third hunter walked to another spot and discovered a second covey.
Whittington ?came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn?t signal them or indicate to them or announce himself,? Armstrong said.
?The vice president didn?t see him,? she continued. ?The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by God, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good.?
Whittington has been a private practice attorney in Austin since 1950 and has long been active in Texas Republican politics. He?s been appointed to several state boards, including when then-Gov. George W. Bush named him to the Texas Funeral Service Commission.
Whittington owns property in Travis County worth at least $11 million, the Austin American-Statesman reported last year, not counting a downtown block at the center of a long-running dispute with the city over a condemnation issue.
Armstrong, owner of the Armstrong Ranch where the accident occurred, said Whittington was bleeding and Cheney was very apologetic.
?It knocked him silly? ?It broke the skin,? she said of the shotgun pellets. ?It knocked him silly. But he was fine. He was talking. His eyes were open. It didn?t get in his eyes or anything like that.?
?Fortunately, the vice president has got a lot of medical people around him and so they were right there and probably more cautious than we would have been,? she said. ?The vice president has got an ambulance on call, so the ambulance came.?
Cheney is an avid hunter who makes annual hunting trips to South Dakota to hunt pheasants. He also travels frequently to Arkansas to hunt ducks.
Armstrong said Cheney is a longtime friend who comes to the ranch to hunt about once a year and is ?a very safe sportsman.? She said Whittington is a regular, too, but she thought it was the first time the two men hunted together.
?This is something that happens from time to time. You now, I?ve been peppered pretty well myself,? said Armstrong.
? 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11312757/
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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wilshire
free radical


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Basilides]
#5292069 - 02/12/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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a hunting accident: politics, activism, or law?
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: wilshire]
#5292093 - 02/12/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: a hunting accident: politics, activism, or law?
Law perhaps, though this thread title is (deliberately?) misleading.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: wilshire]
#5292277 - 02/12/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Now that's gun control.
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roby000
me

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5292304 - 02/12/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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i hope he gets sued.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: roby000]
#5292382 - 02/12/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm sure Cheney doesn't feel too bad, after all he stands side by side with the known war monger George Bush, this shouldn't really phase him.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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zorbman
blarrr


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Ancalagon]
#5292436 - 02/12/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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this thread title is (deliberately?) misleading.
He was probably just trying to make Bush administration officials feel at home.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: wilshire]
#5292479 - 02/12/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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politics
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Ancalagon]
#5292586 - 02/12/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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What's misleading? Did he not shoot someone?
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Basilides]
#5292660 - 02/12/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Was Cheney doing one of those things where they release like 500 birds into an enclosed area and then go 'hunt' them? It screams small penis.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Gijith]
#5293064 - 02/12/06 10:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Basilides]
#5293168 - 02/12/06 10:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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This probably won't be in the news for very long, but I wonder what would have happened had the man actually died.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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rawtoxic
Stranger
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Learyfan]
#5293578 - 02/13/06 01:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Maybe they should have mentioned the bottle of Wild Turkey 101.
?This is something that happens from time to time. You now, I?ve been peppered pretty well myself,? said Armstrong. LOL
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daimyo
Monticello

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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Basilides]
#5294264 - 02/13/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Scott McClellan will be holding a press conference in a little bit. FOX News is carrying it, but I think MSNBC has the olympics on.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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TheGaianMind
epiphanized

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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Basilides]
#5294270 - 02/13/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wow, if they are this good at hunting quails, imagine how the War on Terror must be going!
(I wouldn't really know.. I only watch Fox News)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: TheGaianMind]
#5294298 - 02/13/06 10:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Local law enforcement had BETTER have done alcohol and other toxological tests on the vp the way they would have done if you or I had a similar accident. One beer in your system and they charge you with attempted homicide, or at the very least, negligent discharge of a firearm. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5294307 - 02/13/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I was hoping to hear someone ask about that during the conference. Didn't happen though.
--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5295475 - 02/13/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Local law enforcement had BETTER have done alcohol and other toxological tests on the vp the way they would have done if you or I had a similar accident. One beer in your system and they charge you with attempted homicide, or at the very least, negligent discharge of a firearm. RR
Are you kidding? You think a man as powerful as Cheney has to be subjected to something as dispensible as justice?
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Basilides]
#5295634 - 02/13/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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This regime is very interesting.
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5295848 - 02/13/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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They wouldn't have done that anyway. I was involved in an accidental shooting and I wasn't tested for anything.
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Basilides]
#5296956 - 02/13/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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This whole thing was cool just for the comedy it's produced.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113988242820273069.html?mod=todays_free_feature
Stewart's Hamilton joke had me laughing my ass off.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,086
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Gijith]
#5299347 - 02/14/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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The guy has now had a heart attack.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Learyfan]
#5300068 - 02/14/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cheney fucked up, but what the hell is a 78 year old man out hunting anyway?
I'm just glad he didn't shoot a Mexican.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5300153 - 02/14/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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They were "hunting". I don't really call it hunting when you stand ten feet away from a cage and then you shoot at the birds they release. My Dad did this with an executive from another company once and I made fun of him unmercifully for the longest time.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Redstorm]
#5300171 - 02/14/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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something about this whole story just sounds fishy. it makes much more sense that Cheney had to deliver a personal message in a very personal way. but thats just how my conspiracy starved mind works I guess. plus Ive seen brotherhood of the bell too many times to dismiss that as an option, especially with something like that.
imagine cheney telling you he was going to shoot you in the face, then admit it to all the media outlets and he woul still be untouchable...
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: kotik]
#5300255 - 02/14/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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If only the two guys changed places...
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gregorio
Too Damn Old


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Silversoul]
#5302167 - 02/15/06 05:15 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I f he ever goes hunting with Bob Knight that could be a real possibility.
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Pinhead
Oregano


Registered: 05/13/00
Posts: 1,819
Loc: Hootersville
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Basilides]
#5302370 - 02/15/06 08:22 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cheney didn't even have the proper $7.00 stamp on his license for the qual hunt. I heard the DNR is fining him $7.00 because of this. Why would anyone buy the $7.00 stamp if the fine amount is the same as the stamp, IF you get caught without it!?? I'm sure if this were you or me, we would loose hunting privledges, possibly shotgun or more!
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Pinhead]
#5302397 - 02/15/06 08:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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and its not like they only shot a couple of birds. thats at least 45 per person. so at least 90-100 birds were killed by 2 people that didnt even have permits.
its safe to assume they were not planning on eating any of their spoils, seeing how they probably only eat baby flesh and all..
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: kotik]
#5302415 - 02/15/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Any of you catch the press conferences? If I were Scott McClellan I'd want to kick Cheney in his face.
--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: daimyo]
#5302544 - 02/15/06 09:56 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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you are right.
but IMO McClellan seems like a weak little bitch.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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kilgore_trout
Stranger
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5302554 - 02/15/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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today (wednesday) cheney is finally going to talk about it himself . . . to fox news. go figure . . .
-------------------- "I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Brit better be wearing a day-glo orange hunting vest.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Pinhead]
#5302715 - 02/15/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pinhead said: Cheney didn't even have the proper $7.00 stamp on his license for the qual hunt. I heard the DNR is fining him $7.00 because of this. Why would anyone buy the $7.00 stamp if the fine amount is the same as the stamp, IF you get caught without it!?? I'm sure if this were you or me, we would loose hunting privledges, possibly shotgun or more!
Nah, it was a really obscure license that people always manage not to pay for. Cheney and the other "hunters" had their basic license but not the one needed in this case. I was talking to a friend that hunts often and I guess it a hunter gets caught without it, they just get fined the amount of the license cost.
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WhiteBunny
How deep doesthe rabbit hole go?


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 1,351
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Redstorm]
#5302744 - 02/15/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am a strong Republican and the explanation by the White House media guy for the delay of the information was pretty fucking sketchy. I'm a rep but I do speak up when I think there is shady shit and that whole thing was shady as hell. It took 20 hours for the word to get out. You think within the first 30 min the white knew EXACTLY what happen. I mean if I shot someone my girlfriend and family would know within an hour at the most.
WB
--------------------
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: WhiteBunny]
#5302760 - 02/15/06 11:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think they were trying to come up with the perfect way to hand the story to the press so things would go as smoothly as possible.
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Redstorm]
#5302786 - 02/15/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think Cheney was drunk.
This thread would be so much more entertaining if the title/subject were reversed to "Man Shoots Cheney's Dick".
--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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WhiteBunny
How deep doesthe rabbit hole go?


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 1,351
Loc: Earth
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: daimyo]
#5302909 - 02/15/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I agree with that Redstorm but waiting posed a problem all in it self and makes them look like their hiding something.
WB
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
kilgore_trout said: today (wednesday) cheney is finally going to talk about it himself . . . to fox news. go figure . . .

I'll bet that Fox News will have flattering looking and slow-motion Cheney montages leading up to his appearance.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: daimyo]
#5303466 - 02/15/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
daimyo said: I think Cheney was drunk.
How funny would that be.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5303478 - 02/15/06 03:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh shit! Look what I just read in some article on Yahoo:
Cheney said he had had a beer at lunch that day, but nobody was drinking when they went back out to hunt several hours later.
Translated into English: He was loaded.
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TheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5303515 - 02/15/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, you always tell the officer you've only had "a beer or two" when you're shitfaced and get caught doing something you shouldn't have done. Nice one Cheney!
-------------------- "this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5303523 - 02/15/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said: Translated into English: He was loaded.
Oh shit...that was one hell of a pun and I didn't even realize it.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5303548 - 02/15/06 03:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5303596 - 02/15/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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What's sad is that if it were another guy and he was high on weed, the anti-drug crowd would be all over this, flooding the TV with commercials saying "marijuana kills." But instead, you won't hear a peep on TV about the dangers of alcohol, not even "Don't drink & hunt, m'kay?"
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Silversoul]
#5303938 - 02/15/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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without drinking "canned hunting" isn't much of an idea.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: kotik]
#5304648 - 02/15/06 08:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Heh, "canned".
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer

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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: kotik]
#5304742 - 02/15/06 09:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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You might say, "he took one too many shots".

Thank you. I will be here all night.
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powerpak14
Stranger
Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 47
Last seen: 16 years, 23 days
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Catalysis]
#5304878 - 02/15/06 09:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here are my thoughts. He shoots his friend in a planned "hunt", doesn't report it to any authorities for 24 hours, from what I heard he didn't even apologize, this makes him a coward. (Also Cheney never really apoligezes for anything so its not that big of a suprise) He also knew his friend walked that way, so common sense would be not to shoot that way, so therefore he is a moron, which we all knew, I'm glad people like this run the gov't.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: powerpak14]
#5305089 - 02/15/06 11:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Actually, he did apologize.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Redstorm]
#5305511 - 02/16/06 04:27 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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sorry if this has already been said.. but..
Cheenneeyss got a gunnn Cheneys got a guunnnn His whole worlds come undone... from staring straight at the sunnn
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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Posts: 23,480
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: kotik]
#5305566 - 02/16/06 05:15 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Lemme see if I understand this... he was hunting while inoxicated without a license? Sounds apropos for the current administration...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Seuss]
#5305638 - 02/16/06 06:22 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cheney said he had had a beer at lunch that day, but nobody was drinking when they went back out to hunt several hours later.
Translated into English: He was loaded.
Further translation: Drugs are bad....... except the ones I like.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


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Posts: 2,415
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5306202 - 02/16/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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this is the biggest non issue, ever period.
-------------------- Asshole
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Yup, just like the blowjob Clinton got.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: badchad]
#5306991 - 02/16/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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The bj wasn't the problem. Lying under oath was.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Redstorm]
#5307206 - 02/16/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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well that and cheating on your wife is something someone does fully aware.
Accidently shooting a man on a hunting trip is without the certain moral implications that cheating on your wife carries.
People are shot all the time on hunting trips. Rarely is anyone prosecuted, rarely.
-------------------- Asshole
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Seuss]
#5307568 - 02/16/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Lemme see if I understand this... he was hunting while inoxicated without a license? Sounds apropos for the current administration...
Way to not get one single thing right. You been hanging around the Kos site?
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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this is the biggest non issue, ever period.
You think it's a non-issue that a man who'd been drinking during lunch shoots someone accidentally shortly after and isn't required by law enforcement to submit to a blood-alcohol test, nor is he accused of reckless endangerment? This even though had it been you or me, we'd have likely been forced to give a piss or blood sample and possibly have spent some time locked up?
This is a non-issue? That some of us are more equal than others? Alright...
And by the way, before you go off on the "he only had ONE beer" line, let's get it clear that since he was not forced to submit to a blood-alcohol test, he could be (and given the recent past of this administration, I wouldn't be at all surprised) lying about how many beers he drank.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5307664 - 02/16/06 04:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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He wasn't tested for 'shrooms either. Maybe he just thought, "Wow, Harry's face looks just like a partridge, Danny Partridge. I better shoot him before he starts singing."
Wild-ass speculation based on nothing but your own hatred.
--------------------
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: zappaisgod]
#5307740 - 02/16/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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First of all, shrooms aren't tested for in a standard blood test. Second, he admitted to "having a few beers," which is even more reason to test his blood for alcohol. Given the circumstances, there is nothing "wild" about speculating that he might have been drunk, and Diploid is absolutely right in pointing out that had it been any of us, the police would surely have taken at least a breathaliser test. What is wild is your incredible blind-sided partisanship. Your willingness to defend any right-winger against the facts, as well as delivering ad hominems against those who do nothing more than stating the obvious, speaks volumes about your character.
--------------------
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Silversoul]
#5307792 - 02/16/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Would it matter if he were drunk? The victim in this incident doesn't seem to want to press charges, so whats the big deal? If the victim can say "OK, simple misunderstanding, no need to arrest the guy", then who cares if Cheney was smoking crack while tripping when he shot him? Accidents happen. The law shouldn't be compelled to prosecute when the victim doesn't want it to.
And what laws would you have enforced against him? Hunting on private land has different rules than hunting on public land. If you want to drink and hunt on your property, you aren't prohibited from doing that.
Geez, the guy had a beer or two, accidentally shot someone who wasn't where they should be and noone seems upset about it, so who cares really? It's not even a political issue.
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Posts: 81,741
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Silversoul]
#5307911 - 02/16/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: First of all, shrooms aren't tested for in a standard blood test.
So what?
Quote:
Second, he admitted to "having a few beers," which is even more reason to test his blood for alcohol.
Bullshit. He copped to one beer at lunch, several hours earlier, which was corroborated by witnesses. Further, there was no smell of alcohol on anyone's breath. This wasn't a bunch of dumbass twenty year olds.
Quote:
Given the circumstances, there is nothing "wild" about speculating that he might have been drunk,
Bullshit. There is no evidence whatsoever and there are in fact witness accounts to support the contention that he was, in fact, not drunk. At all. Not even a little bit. Wild ass speculation, which your willingness to swallow borders on religion.
Quote:
and Diploid is absolutely right in pointing out that had it been any of us, the police would surely have taken at least a breathaliser test.
Maybe you and a bunch of youngsters would be profiled this way. I doubt that I would. Unless, of course, they smelled it. And if you don't think a sober person can smell alcohol on someone's breath you are incredibly misinformed. Cops are trained to detect drunkenness. Trained. Not everyone who gets pulled over at midnight on a Friday night, even if they have an accident, is tested. They only get tested if the cop suspects something. I know this for a fact.
Quote:
What is wild is your incredible blind-sided partisanship. Your willingness to defend any right-winger against the facts,
More bullshit. There are no facts other than the fact that you guys are speculating wildly. "There was an accident!!!!!Someone must be drunk!!!!! Halliburton is covering it up!!!!!" If you can find an example of me defending anyone who turned out guilty I'll be very surprised (I don't really expect you to try and that's fine. I have 4,000 posts after all). Mostly, I do it because of the incredible willingness of the left to swallow any whiff of impropriety by a member of the right and to run with it to the nearest conspiracy seance. The endless hyperventilating needs to be addressed before you all hurt yourselves. I'm just looking out for you.
Quote:
as well as delivering ad hominems against those who do nothing more than stating the obvious, speaks volumes about your character.
What ad hominem? Your idea of "obvious" is seriously divergent from mine. My character? MY CHARACTER? Talk about ad hominems. Believe me when I tell you that the day I give a shit about what some sociology major living with his mom thinks about my character will be the day I join the Hare Krishnas. Peace be upon you.
--------------------
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: zappaisgod]
#5310085 - 02/17/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Whittington just had a press conference and he looked good.
hopefully this will end the Drama.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: zappaisgod]
#5310735 - 02/17/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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What ad hominem?
Quote:
Wild-ass speculation based on nothing but your own hatred.
My state of mind, hatred or love, and the color of my tie have nothing to do with the discussion. Any references to those things are ad hominems by definition.
There are no facts other than the fact that you guys are speculating wildly.
It is a fact that Cheney was not required to submit to a blood-alcohol test. This is incongruous because had I been the shooter, and ESPECIALLY had I admitted to drinking a few hours earlier during lunch, I likely would have been forced to submit a blood or urine sample.
That Whittington didn't press charges is neither here nor there; he was not coherent after the shooting and so could not have declined to press charges at that time. The prudent thing for the police to do would have been to require Cheney to submit to a blood-alcohol test given the potential eventuality that Whittington might later press charges.
This wasn't a bunch of dumbass twenty year olds.
You make my point for me. Cheney is more equal than others, and THAT is the problem.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Posts: 81,741
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5310880 - 02/17/06 03:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: What ad hominem?
Quote:
Wild-ass speculation based on nothing but your own hatred.
That is not an ad hominem
Quote:
My state of mind, hatred or love, and the color of my tie have nothing to do with the discussion. Any references to those things are ad hominems by definition.
Bullshit. Pointing out that you are willing to completely fabricate an allegation of drunkenness purely because you obviously despise the current administration is not an ad hominem. To quote you:
"And by the way, before you go off on the "he only had ONE beer" line, let's get it clear that since he was not forced to submit to a blood-alcohol test, he could be (and given the recent past of this administration, I wouldn't be at all surprised) lying about how many beers he drank.
Quote:
There are no facts other than the fact that you guys are speculating wildly.
It is a fact that Cheney was not required to submit to a blood-alcohol test. This is incongruous because had I been the shooter, and ESPECIALLY had I admitted to drinking a few hours earlier during lunch, I likely would have been forced to submit a blood or urine sample.
Or a breathalizer. But there was no indication whatsoever that he was the least bit intoxicated. Nor anyone else in the party. And reliable witnesses say so. COPS CAN SMELL ALCOHOL. They didn't smell any alcohol on anybody. Most likely reason? THEY WEREN'T DRINKING! But not for you. Get over it. It was an accident and you are way out of bounds. Even your assertion that you would have been tested is speculation. I don't think I would have been. Let me say this again. COPS CAN SMELL ALCOHOL.
Quote:
That Whittington didn't press charges is neither here nor there; he was not coherent after the shooting and so could not have declined to press charges at that time. The prudent thing for the police to do would have been to require Cheney to submit to a blood-alcohol test given the potential eventuality that Whittington might later press charges.
Where did I make any mention of anybody pressing charges? There are no charges to press. It has been declared an accident. You can't press charges after an accident. Are you talking about him suing for civil damages? I got a hundred American dollars that says he won't sue Cheney. Wanna go for it with your hundred? Are you inexperienced enough to think that the police give a breathalizer test every time there's a car accident? They don't.
Quote:
This wasn't a bunch of dumbass twenty year olds.
You make my point for me. Cheney is more equal than others, and THAT is the problem.
I'm going to say it once again. COPS CAN SMELL ALCOHOL. Is a cop more likely to suspect a bunch of dumbass 20 somethings of being drunk? Of course. Would he give a breathalizer to any 20 something in an accident? No. I know this for a fact. Because I've been there. But he might sniff a little closer.
Once again, there is absolutely no evidence to support your assertion that Cheney was drunk. Or that he received treatment different from you or me. Ergo, "wild ass speculation."
--------------------
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: zappaisgod]
#5311092 - 02/17/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Pointing out that you are willing to completely fabricate an allegation of drunkenness purely because you obviously despise the current administration is not an ad hominem.
The ad hominem was you referring to my 'hatred' which is about ME, and not about the DISCUSSION. Debate 101. 
because you obviously despise
Once again, an ad hominem. Whether or not I dispise anything has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand.
Pointing out that I dispise something or that I wear ugly pants are equally irrelevent ad hominems. They are the recourse of those with poor arguments who, frustrated by their inability to back their position, resort to attacking the person they're debating rather than the person's argument.
Or a breathalizer. But there was no indication whatsoever that he was the least bit intoxicated.
There was his voluntary admission that he drank alcohol a few hours earlier. Less than this is routinely used to justify compulsory blood-alcohol tests when the accident involves ordinary people.
And reliable witnesses say so
Which witnesses? Cheney's entourage? LOL
COPS CAN SMELL ALCOHOL
The cops weren't allowed anywhere near Cheney. That's part of the problem which you don't seem to get. The secret service people with Cheney did not allow the cops to talk to, question, test for alcohol, or anything else re Cheney.
You can't press charges after an accident.
Wow, you're clearly not a lawyer. An accident can be a criminal offense if it is caused by negligence.
Once again, there is absolutely no evidence to support your assertion that Cheney was drunk.
Reading comprehension problems?
I haven't said Cheney was drunk. I've said that since he was not given a blood-alcohol test despite admitting to having alcohol a few hours before the accident, we will never know.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (02/17/06 05:17 PM)
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5311608 - 02/17/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: It is a fact that Cheney was not required to submit to a blood-alcohol test. This is incongruous because had I been the shooter, and ESPECIALLY had I admitted to drinking a few hours earlier during lunch, I likely would have been forced to submit a blood or urine sample.
This talk is absurd. If you shoot someone, it doesn't matter if you've been drinking, it matters if you had the criminal intent to shoot them. If you did, their is a specific charge for that (depending on the state), if you didn't, then the LEO has discretion as to how to move forward. This is such a GIGANTIC non-issue. Cops let other cops off with speeding tickets, maybe they'd let the VP off if it was clear it was an accident. Maybe you could show me a law that states that people are given BAC tests whenever they do something dumb or something that hurts another person? MANDATORY BAC testing, mind you, the LEO doesn't have the discretion to use his own senses to determine whether or not one is appropriate.
Quote:
That Whittington didn't press charges is neither here nor there; he was not coherent after the shooting and so could not have declined to press charges at that time. The prudent thing for the police to do would have been to require Cheney to submit to a blood-alcohol test given the potential eventuality that Whittington might later press charges.
Again, the LEO is given the leeway to do as he sees fit. If he didn't smell alcohol, their was no reason for the test. Why aren't you insisting on a urine test?
Quote:
You make my point for me. Cheney is more equal than others, and THAT is the problem.
Could you show how others WERE alcohol tested during these events? It's not illegal to hunt drunk on private property.
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: MisterMyco]
#5311696 - 02/17/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you shoot someone, it doesn't matter if you've been drinking, it matters if you had the criminal intent to shoot them.
It also matters if the accident is a result of your negligence. Causing an accident by negligence can be a criminal offense. Look things up before you make up erroneous legal facts.
Again, the LEO is given the leeway to do as he sees fit. If he didn't smell alcohol, their was no reason for the test.
LEO was not given access to Cheney so no 'smelling' by LEO took place. LEO was also prevented from questioning or observing Cheney alone to determine if further investigation into the alcohol issue was warranted.
Again, the LEO is given the leeway to do as he sees fit. If he didn't smell alcohol
Again, LEO was not given access to Cheney so neither leeway nor smelling could take place.
their was no reason for the test
Admission of drinking a few hours before a serious accident is reason for a test.
Cops let other cops off with speeding tickets
Ah, you hit the crux of the issue: the law applies differently depending on who you are.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (02/17/06 07:27 PM)
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5311713 - 02/17/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: LEO was not given access to Cheney so no 'smelling' by LEO took place. LEO was also prevented from questioning or observe Cheney alone to determine if further investigation into the alcohol issue was warranted.
Source?
Quote:
Again, LEO was not given access to Cheney so neither leeway nor smelling could take place.
Source?
Quote:
Admission of drinking a few hours before a serious accident is reason for a test.
No, it's not. What law enforcement agency do you work for?
Quote:
Ah, you hit the crux of the issue: the law applies differently depending on who you are.
The next time you get pulled over for speeding, be rude and offensive, see if it works as well as being polite. The law is applied differently.
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: MisterMyco]
#5311827 - 02/17/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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MisterMyco: Source?
Here ya go:
CBS News: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/13/sheriff-barred-from-interviewing/
Texas Sheriff Barred From Interviewing Cheney About Shooting Incident CBS News reports that local law enforcement officials were prevented from interviewing Vice President Cheney after he accidentally shot a 78-year-old man during a hunting trip:
CBS News White House correspondent Peter Maer reports Texas authorities are complaining that the Secret Service barred them from speaking to Cheney after the incident. Kenedy County Texas Sheriffs Lt. Juan Guzman said deputies first learned of the shooting when an ambulance was called.
McClellan was asked about it at the press briefing but played dumb:
QUESTION: Scott, there?s a report coming out of a sheriff?s deputy there who said that he was prevented from interviewing the vice president by the Secret Service. Do you know anything about that? And is that appropriate?
MCCLELLAN: No, I don?t know anything about that. You have got to direct that to the Secret Service. My understanding was that Secret Service took the appropriate steps to inform law enforcement.
Of course, the question is not whether the Secret Service informed law enforcement, but whether law enforcement was permitted to speak with Cheney. As Talk Left notes, although the incident was an accident, it could constitute criminal negligence.
UPDATE: National Journal reports that, after initial resistance, Cheney was interviewed by law enforcement sometime on Sunday.
SUNDAY! One day AFTER the accident. WTF? Why the delay?
It should also be noted that Cheney has two DUI convictions in an eight-month period. It was a long time ago, but all things considered, the two DUIs and the admission of drinking a few hours before the accident add credence to the idea that a blood-alcohol test was warranted.
Also, in my perusing to satisfy your request for sources, I've found that many states REQUIRE, by force if necessary, a blood-alcohol test after ANY hunting accident, private property or not, pressing charges or not.
And from Reuters: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060217/ts_nm/cheney_accident_report_dc
Chief Deputy Gilbert San Miguel, who conducted the shooting probe, said: "Our investigation is over ... this was just a mere hunting accident."
But the report he submitted says that he did not start the investigation until the DAY AFTER the accident. Of course he would not smell any alcohol by then if Cheney had in fact been impaired by alcohol when the accident happened.
Can you give a plausible explanation for the delay? And do you believe for one second that if it had been me shooting, that I would have been given until the next day before being 'smelled' by LEO? C'mon!
And then there's this gem also from Reuters: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060217/ts_nm/cheney_accident_report_dc
Cheney's admission that he had a lunchtime beer conflicted with the account by Armstrong, a prominent Republican and lobbyist who witnessed the incident.
She told the Caller-Times no one had anything to drink, even at lunch: "No, zero, zippo."
So No, Zero, and Zippo alcohol are what the 'reliable witnesses' state was served at lunch. Alright, I feel better now...
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (02/17/06 08:11 PM)
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MisterMyco
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5311914 - 02/17/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm sure that Cheney was blind drunk on 200 proof moonshine and thought that the victim was a minority or a woman or a gay or something. Feel better?
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5311935 - 02/17/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021501133.html
And now I find that Whittingon WAS GIVEN A BLOOD-ALCOHOL TEST when he was admitted to the hospital. Clearly, if the victim warranted testing, why not the shooter?
Cheney conveniently didn't visit Whittington at the hospital until the NEXT DAY when a blood-alcohol test would have been irrelevant.
You know, I started posting in this thread neutral on the issue of alcohol. My beef was only with the disparity with which an 'important person' is treated compared to an ordinary person.
But now, as I dig further and further into this, I'm becoming convinced that the reason LEO was barred access to Cheney until the next day, the reason Cheney didn't show up at the hospital to visit his friend until the next day, and the reason Armstrong's vehement denial of any alcohol at lunch is in direct conflict with the truth are not chance happenings.
WTF?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (02/17/06 08:40 PM)
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: MisterMyco]
#5311949 - 02/17/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm sure that Cheney was blind drunk on 200 proof moonshine and thought that the victim was a minority or a woman or a gay or something. Feel better?
Why post useless sarcasm that adds nothing to the discussion rather than address the points I've brought up? Could it be because you can't and you know it?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Redstorm
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: MisterMyco]
#5311956 - 02/17/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
This talk is absurd. If you shoot someone, it doesn't matter if you've been drinking, it matters if you had the criminal intent to shoot them.
That's not true. Haven't you ever heard of criminal negligence?
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5312052 - 02/17/06 09:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Status: Closed....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312084 - 02/17/06 09:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Status: Closed....
The police investigation is closed, but the issue is not.
That report says the shooting took place Saturday but the police interview with Cheney didn't begin until the next morning.
The Secret Service prevented the police from interviewing Cheney until Sunday by which time any clue that he may have been under the influence of alcohol was gone.
Why wasn't the police allowed to question Cheney at the scene like they would have any ordinary citizen?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5312118 - 02/17/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Diploid said: "That report says the shooting took place Saturday but the police interview with Cheney didn't begin until the next morning.
"The Secret Service prevented the police from interviewing Cheney until Sunday by which time any clue that he may have been under the influence of alcohol was gone.
Why wasn't the police allowed to question Cheney at the scene like they would have any ordinary citizen?"

The police did interview him right away, and the Secret Service Officially reported it. They even asked when they would be there. thats in the police report.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0216061cheney1.html
Along with San Miguel's report, investigators also released a two-page supplemental report prepared by Salinas, who learned of a "possible hunting accident" from Captain Charles Kirk around 5:30 PM Saturday. About ten minutes later, Salinas was called by a Secret Service agent who reported that the accident at the Armstrong Ranch "involved Vice-President Cheney." Salinas then contacted Ramiro Medellin, a former Kenedy County sheriff who works at the 50,000-acre ranch. Medellin, Salinas reported, told him, "This in fact is an accident," adding that he had spoken with "some of the people in the hunting party who were eyewitnesses and that they all said it was definitely a hunting accident." After speaking with Medellin, Salinas apparently believed that there was no need for further investigation that night. He then contacted San Miguel and directed his deputy to arrive at the Armstrong Ranch the following morning at 8 AM to interview Cheney and other witnesses. In addition to questioning the vice president, San Miguel obtained affidavits or statements from four members of Cheney's hunting party, including ranch owner Katharine Armstrong, hunting guide Gerardo Medellin, and Pamela Willeford, the U.S. ambassador to Switzerland (Lilleford was standing next to Cheney when he shot Whittington). However, the sheriff's department declined today to release those affidavits and statements, the substance of which is not described in the San Miguel report. The only reference to details from these witness accounts is San Miguel's notation that Armstrong, with whom he spoke briefly, "told me pretty much the same story Mr. Cheney told me." On Tuesday, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department issued the first report on the Cheney shooting incident. (5 pages)
The police report states that "After speaking with Medellin, Salinas apparently believed that there was no need for further investigation that night."
Edited by lonestar2004 (02/17/06 10:04 PM)
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MisterMyco
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312165 - 02/17/06 10:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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good one
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312171 - 02/17/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Medellin, Salinas reported, told him, "This in fact is an accident," adding that he had spoken with "some of the people in the hunting party who were eyewitnesses and that they all said it was definitely a hunting accident."
Yes, more of those reliable eyewitnesses like Armstrong who said in an interview that "No, zero, zippo" alcohol was served at lunch.
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060217/ts_nm/cheney_accident_report_dc
they all said it was definitely a hunting accident
A hunting accident caused by negligence (read: someone shooting while impaired by alcohol) is a criminal offense. And that the police was barred from interviewing Cheney until the next morning when a determination regarding alcohol was impossible is telling.
After speaking with Medellin, Salinas apparently believed that there was no need for further investigation that night.
Right, Medellin, a CIVILIAN who WORKS FOR the Armstrong ranch TOLD the local police that no further investigation was required that night even as the Secret Service barred the police from entering.
And CBS reports: "CBS News White House correspondent Peter Maer reports Texas authorities are complaining that the Secret Service barred them from speaking to Cheney after the incident."
Source: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/13/sheriff-barred-from-interviewing/
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5312193 - 02/17/06 10:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Right, Medellin, a CIVILIAN who WORKS FOR the Armstrong ranch TOLD the local police that no further investigation was required that night even as the Secret Service barred the police from entering.
And CBS reports: "CBS News White House correspondent Peter Maer reports Texas authorities are complaining that the Secret Service barred them from speaking to Cheney after the incident."
Source: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/13/sheriff-barred-from-interviewing/
Constable Medellin 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constable Texas constables are elected officials, similar to a sheriff, who are responsible for providing services for their precinct justice of the peace, but also for his county, and the state district courts. They have full law enforcement authority throughout their respective counties and the state. Most constable offices have only one or two persons, but in the major metropolitan counties with four or more precincts, they may have over a hundred persons. Texas contains over 1,300 constable offices employing over 3,500 persons. The Texas constable is also listed as a unique independent local police agency on the United States Department of Justice's Uniform Crime Reports.
and who the fuck cares what White House correspondent Peter Maer says or dreams up.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312216 - 02/17/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Constable Medellin
Nope.
Salinas then contacted Ramiro Medellin, a former Kenedy County sheriff who works at the 50,000-acre ranch.
A CIVILIAN who works for the people hosting the hunt and someone who would likely spin things in a favorable light for his employer.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312230 - 02/17/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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The police did interview him right away
From the Kenedy County Sheriff's Report you posted:
On Sunday, February 12, 2006, at approximately 0805 hrs. I Chief Deputy Gilberto San Miguel Jr., arrived at the bump gate to the Armstrong Ranch.
The Cheney police interview BEGAN on Sunday morning; the day after the accident.
and who the fuck cares what White House correspondent Peter Maer says or dreams up.
Let's see how this works. You guys accuse me of making things up and demand sources. When I provide them, you dismiss them out of hand. Alright...
By the way Peter Maer isn't the only reporter reporting these events. That you pick on him rather than refute the information he presents is yet another ad hominem and evidence that your argument sucks and you know it. 
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5312238 - 02/17/06 10:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Constable Medellin
Nope.
Salinas then contacted Ramiro Medellin, a former Kenedy County sheriff who works at the 50,000-acre ranch.
A CIVILIAN who works for the people hosting the hunt and someone who would likely spin things in a favorable light for his employer.
Nope.
The Official Police Report refers to him as a CONSTABLE.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312246 - 02/17/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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A Former Sheriff and now Constable was on the scene.
What do you want Mulder and Scully, out there right away?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312247 - 02/17/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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For which law enforcement agency does he work?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5312251 - 02/17/06 10:33 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Like a Sheriff, County.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312252 - 02/17/06 10:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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A Former Sheriff and now Constable was on the scene.
And both were barred from interviewing Cheney until the next morning, rendering any evidence that he might have been impaired by alcohol moot.
Why, after 80-something posts, can none of you give a plausible reason why the Secret Service barred LEO from interviewing Cheney until the next morning?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312255 - 02/17/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Like a Sheriff, County
Neither of those is a law enforcement agency.
Try again.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5312260 - 02/17/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Maybe you need a Breathalyzer.
The Sheriff spoke on the phone with the Constable who was interviewing eyewitness. The Constable said it was an accident and the sheriff said fine we will send a sheriff in the morning.
I have driven past that ranch many times, and its in the middle of fucking nowhere.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312263 - 02/17/06 10:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Again.
Constable Medellin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constable Texas constables are elected officials, similar to a sheriff, who are responsible for providing services for their precinct justice of the peace, but also for his county, and the state district courts. They have full law enforcement authority throughout their respective counties and the state.
Edited by lonestar2004 (02/17/06 10:45 PM)
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: lonestar2004]
#5312310 - 02/17/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Alright, he was a part-time constable whose employer was the host of the hunt. You don't see a conflict of interest here?
The Sheriff spoke on the phone with the Constable who was interviewing eyewitness.
Ah yes, those reliable eye-witnesses again, including "No, Zero, Zippo alcohol was served during lunch" Armstrong.
I have driven past that ranch many times, and its in the middle of fucking nowhere.
So the sheriff couldn't investigate a SHOOTING the same day it happened because it was a long drive? This makes no sense.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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nakors_junk_bag
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5312689 - 02/18/06 03:13 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wow, you guys are still arguing this thing.
The left is so left wallowing in their own inability to speak with one mouth, with one vision and one solution that they have resorted to making issues out of wild nothings.
Come on, speak to something that really plays a significance in the world theatre.
FUCK!
-------------------- Asshole
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Diploid
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The law applying differently depending on how important you are "plays a significance" in my world theatre.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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kotik
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5319717 - 02/20/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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http://www.lf8.org/taboo/ballistics_test_bb.wmv
chew on that. "scientific" experiment proving that Cheney shot the poor guy less than 20ft away.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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gluke bastid
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Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said: Wow, you guys are still arguing this thing.
The left is so left wallowing in their own inability to speak with one mouth, with one vision and one solution that they have resorted to making issues out of wild nothings.
Come on, speak to something that really plays a significance in the world theatre.
The right wing is just as responsible for this type of bickering. If Clinton gets criticized for being immoral because he got a bj, it is worth while to question whether or not this accident might be alcohol related. If Cheney got away with lying about how intoxicated he was, it brings his character into question.
While I would love it if character wasn't significant in politics, this is not the case. As long as politicians keep posturing as "moral leaders" (when in fact it is their job to lie to people to make themselves popular), the public can and should debate the authenticity of their political personna.
Although I understand the sentiment and I wish there was more debate about some things that Cheny DID lie about while in office that had a lot more negative impact on the world than some good ole buddy getting shot while hunting.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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whichits
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5322125 - 02/20/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Dick" Cheney is just that, he's a DICK he was wrong to not come forward with an apology...
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Learyfan
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: kotik]
#5322728 - 02/21/06 01:17 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: http://www.lf8.org/taboo/ballistics_test_bb.wmv
chew on that. "scientific" experiment proving that Cheney shot the poor guy less than 20ft away.
That test seemed very reasonable to me. It seems right that Cheney MUST have been much closer than he claimed in order for the bbs to have been concentrated in such a small area on Whittington.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Learyfan]
#5322736 - 02/21/06 01:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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That test is absurb. The choke on Cheneys shotgun is unknown, so we don't know what natural disposition toward spreading the pellets had. Maybe the guy that made this can team up with the Pentagon-was-hit-by-a-missile crowd.
Jesus christ, it's fuckin alex jones, ugh.
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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kotik
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: MisterMyco]
#5323117 - 02/21/06 07:02 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jesus christ, it's fuckin alex jones, ugh.
Alex Jones? It's fucking Jesus Christ, ugh!
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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nakors_junk_bag
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Learyfan]
#5323125 - 02/21/06 07:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said:
Quote:
kotik said: http://www.lf8.org/taboo/ballistics_test_bb.wmv
chew on that. "scientific" experiment proving that Cheney shot the poor guy less than 20ft away.
That test seemed very reasonable to me. It seems right that Cheney MUST have been much closer than he claimed in order for the bbs to have been concentrated in such a small area on Whittington.
that test was fucking shit.
He talked about pellet spread, he demonstrated that if you were aiming at the mans chest from 90 feet away that the pellets would disperse in a fashion as to make it almost impossible that the man would be struck. He was aiming at the guys heart. He stated that the pellets from that distance would miss the target by three to four feet. Fine, that is well and dandy. If Cheney accidentally discharged his gun in the direction of the victim the likelihood of him aiming a dead on shot at the mans heart is infinitesimally small. Lets then consider he missed his target by a ratio that would allow for the three foot spread at a distance of 30 meters. Its not that hard to conceive of. This scenario seems much more likely than Cheney accidentally aiming directly at the man's heart like the asshole in the video did.
Also we need to consider the man's height vs the dummy's. Those dummies weren't even a man's full height. Also if a pellet burst forth from a shotgun and couldn't penetrate a chicken standing still further than a millimeter what good what it be against a bird at wing?
also we need to consider the grain count.
And who cares if it was an accident at twenty feet vs ninety feet. Its still an accident.
-------------------- Asshole
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: kotik]
#5323238 - 02/21/06 08:44 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Projection
A defense mechanism, operating unconsciously, in which what is emotionally unacceptable in the self is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others.
www.indianpsychiatry.com/Glossary.htm
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Learyfan
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What you say doesn't disprove what Alex Jones demonstrated with that test. It doesn't matter where you're aiming. When you're 90 feet away, the pellets dispurse. Isn't that all there is to it? The only way for the pellets or bbs to have been so heavily concentrated in one area is for Cheney to have been much closer to Whittington than he claims.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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Diploid
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And who cares if it was an accident at twenty feet vs ninety feet. Its still an accident.
You just don't get it.
It's not whether or not this was an accident that people have beef with; virtually everyone agrees that it was.
Get it straight: the issue is that we may have been (maybe are being) lied to about the circumstances surrounding the accident (distances, alcohol impairment, who knows what else).
I can see someone accidentally shooting someone 90 feet away, but at 20 feet, and wearing a bright orange safety vest, they're prominent even at 90 degrees in your peripheral vision. Either Cheney is half-blind, or something else (alcohol?) contributed to the accident.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5324532 - 02/21/06 03:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've never shot anything with a 28 gauge shotgun. I've fired a 20 and a .410. At 15 to 20 feet a 20 probably would have blown his jaw right off. A .410 would have done serious damage as well. Shotgun pellets are seriously unaerodynamic and slow down very quickly. For a discussion and education on shot shell patterning go here: http://www.proteinwisdom.com/index.php/weblog/entry/19882/#comments
You'll have to scroll down to get to the Dan Riehl part but it is sane and replete with links to serious gun information. To cut to the chase, shotshells are tested for patterning at 40 yds (don't forget, the report was 30 yds. 75% of the distance would result in a 1.33 squared denser pattern or nearly double the density) with a 30inch diameter circle. The gun is fired at a large paper target 40 yds away and a 30 inch circle is drawn around the densest part of the pattern. The number of pellets are counted. Depending on the choke of the gun you can expect from 40% to 70% of the pellets to be in the circle. There are 262 #7.5 pellets in one 28 ga shell. 70% of that is 183. The report was of approximately 200 pellets. Not at all inconsistent with the report. Even a half choke at 60%in 40 yds would yield more than enough pellets in 30 yds to be consistent.
Clutching at straws, people, clutching at straws. Putting out such weak shit only dimiinishes the credibility of those who spew it.
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MisterMyco
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Learyfan]
#5324677 - 02/21/06 04:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said: What you say doesn't disprove what Alex Jones demonstrated with that test. It doesn't matter where you're aiming. When you're 90 feet away, the pellets dispurse. Isn't that all there is to it? The only way for the pellets or bbs to have been so heavily concentrated in one area is for Cheney to have been much closer to Whittington than he claims.
I"m just going to take a stab in the dark here.... 1) You'v never hunted 2) You've never fired a shotgun 3) You've got no experience studying ballistics.
am I correct?
Oh, I did part-time research work with the IWBA (International Wound Ballistics Association), just in case you wanted to switch the questions back on me. Maybe you could also tell me why professionals use ballistic/ordanince gel and Alex Jones uses a freakin 25$ kickboxing dummy. maybe the entire firearms world should reconsider how we test firearms, per Alex Jones?
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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MisterMyco
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5324686 - 02/21/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I can see someone accidentally shooting someone 90 feet away, but at 20 feet, and wearing a bright orange safety vest, they're prominent even at 90 degrees in your peripheral vision. Either Cheney is half-blind, or something else (alcohol?) contributed to the accident.
Twenty feet in heavy underbrush isn't THAT hard to do, really. Especially if you are tracking a bird,as Cheney was, and the other guy walks out of somewhere he shouldn't have been. One of my hunting buddies shot a human at 43 feet with a scoped rifle accidentally and he was as sober as a nun.
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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zappaisgod
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: MisterMyco]
#5324917 - 02/21/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nice move with the delete button diploid.
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MisterMyco
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: zappaisgod]
#5324930 - 02/21/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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What'd he delete
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: zappaisgod]
#5324987 - 02/21/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Clutching at straws, people, clutching at straws.
Nope. Here's how I figure it:
Part 1 The surface area of a circle is Pi*R^2
Plugging in the numbers we get:
3.1415 * 30" ^ 2 = 2827 square inches on a 30" circle
Part 2 The Mosteller Formula is the most common way physicians compute body surface area to determine the proper therapeutic course. In English units, it goes like this:
Total Body Surface Area (meters) = [ ( Height in inches * Weight in pounds ) / 3125 ] ^ 1/2
Assuming Whittingon is 6 feet tall and weighs 170 pounds, then plugging in the numbers for him, we get:
[ ( 72 * 170 ) / 3125 ] ^ 1/2 = 1.98 square meters or 6076 square inches of skin on his body.
Only half of this was visible from Cheney's point of view at the moment the gun was fired because the other half was on the far side of Whittingon's body. That means only 3038 square inches of Whittingon's skin was vulnerable to being hit.
Since all the pellets hit the upper half of Whittingon's body, let's say that half of 3038, or 1519, square inches of skin got hit by 200 pellets.
The more observant will note that 1519 is conservative as it assumes the skin is splayed out flat like the 30 inch circle it's being compared to. In reality, the skin is wrapped around the body, but to be more accurate requires a double integral equation that would lose my audience.
1519 is 54 percent of 2827, so it follows that even if ALL 262 pellets in the shell were within a 30" circle at 30 yards, AND if the shot had been aimed directly at Whittingon, then only 54% of the 262 pellets should have hit him.
54 percent of 262 is 141 pellets. How did the other 59 manage to hit Whittingon??
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (02/21/06 06:03 PM)
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: zappaisgod]
#5325007 - 02/21/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nice move with the delete button diploid.
Correcting my figures. I'm stoned, give me a break.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5325130 - 02/21/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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30 inches is the diameter, not the radius. Thus the area of the circle is 706 sq in. (In fairness to your stonage I think the guy in the link originally said radius but later corrected it). Further, that's at 40 yds not the estimated 30. Decreasing the distance to 30 yds would result in an expected cone of area diminished by a factor of 1.33 squared or 1.77. 706 divided by 1.77 is 398 sq in. This is a square of about 20 inches a side. On me that's about the width of my shoulders by the top of my head to the center of my torso. Totally consistent with a guess of 30 yds and a guess of 200 pellets and what we know of the distribution on his body. Even though you got the area of the test circle wrong by a factor of 4 you still came up with 3/4ths the number of pellets. Fucking give it up. There's nothing there.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325132 - 02/21/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMyco said: What'd he delete
Some really weak math
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Diploid
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: zappaisgod]
#5325148 - 02/21/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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(In fairness to your stonage I think the guy in the link originally said radius but later corrected it).
He did, and that was my starting point.
Nevermind.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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kotik
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5325177 - 02/21/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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math isnt going to prove anything in this case, some people believe one thing, others, well.. another
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Dick Cheney shoots man [Re: Diploid]
#5325178 - 02/21/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
Good on yer mate
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