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OfflineSneezingPenis
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The latency of perception
    #5291621 - 02/12/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Like the lapse of time between an audio signal taken in by a microphone to the actual time it takes for that signal to come out speakers.

With regards to perception, this makes me ask which is truly the present?
The current "now" perception of reality, or the external reality?

There has to be a latency between the actual reality (existentialists need not apply), and our perception of reality.

So where does actual time fall? in the external reality which we are not aware of until hundredths of a second later, or the reality of what we perceive?

If someone were to say "NOW", they could atleast in some way grasp and label a point in their present time, but it would not be the same for everyone listening, due to the latency.... we would perceive the word "NOW" in our individual present time, but it would not be the same as the person stating their present.

Much like the Superbowl this year, we are on a delay... we are perceiving reality in "our time" and will never be able to perceive "true reality" in the present.


anyone get this at all?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5291753 - 02/12/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Latency goes both ways...

In the 1980s, neurologist Benjamin Libet conducted an interesting experiment:

He used a tool called an electroencephalograph (EEG) to map the electrical activity in his experimental subjects' motor cortex. This is the part of the brain from which muscle movement is caused to occur.

His subjects were placed in front of a clock with one hand that went around once per second. They were then asked to press a button at random times. Each time the button was pressed, the position of the clock hand was recorded electronically, and the subject was asked what the position of the hand was when they first became aware of their intention to press the button.

On average, the subjects reported awareness of their intention to press the button about 200 milliseconds before the button was actually pressed.

Now the interesting part is that the activity in the motor cortex leading to the pressing of the button began 500 milliseconds before the button press. This is 300 milliseconds (1/3 second) before the subject consciously willed the button press.

This means that there is a 'backward' latency in the assertion of free will. The brain is electrically a third of a second into the series of events required for the button press when the person first decides to press the button.

These results lead to deep questions about the existence of free will.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5291754 - 02/12/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Time is your perception of total motion. There is no numerical clock literally counting down your demise. Time is an invention just like a ruler is. Time has nothing to do with anything other than measurement, and is not universal. Try using a ruler to measure the coast of Europe. You'd have to change the medium of measurement to do that, and still you will be inaccurate. No ruler can give you the definate exact value for the length of say... France.

The latency of perception is subjective and malleable. Certain Buddhist meditation techniques show how you can consciously expand and contract the perception of time.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (02/12/06 03:10 PM)


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5291755 - 02/12/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

its all reality , there is just a latency til it becomes part of your reality.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5291794 - 02/12/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

we are perceiving reality in "our time" and will never be able to perceive "true reality" in the present.


Our sense perception is human [read: specific], and as such, it has a specific nature. It utilizes a specific process, and that process takes a certain amount of duration.

If I pick up a baseball, and hold it in my hands, I can see that it is white, with red stitches, and I can feel that it is round, smooth, except for the stitches which feel bumpy and rough, and it is hard. All these qualities were experienced through my faculty of sense perception [read: consciousness], within a certain amount of duration that can be measured in time - which to us, is lightning-like. All this occurred within the present - The Now. Any specific process of sense perception with any living being, be it a human, insect or Martian, will, by it's own specific nature, require an amount of duration.

The baseball outside of my human sense perception, is something that I can only have inferential knowledge about. Although I can say that a dog or cat will percieve the same reality, read: the same existent, I cannot say exactly how the dog or cat will interpret the sensory data that they recieve through their faculty of perception.

The fact that we cannot step outside of our human perception does not change the fact that we can gather immense amounts of information about the object, from the material it is made out of, and what that material is made out of, and going all the way to sub-atomic levels.
There is no reason to conflate reality that is unobserved by our human sense perception as any more or less "true" - different, most certainly, but not in a way that would imply any invalidity of our sense perception.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: Diploid]
    #5291830 - 02/12/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Ive heard about that study before and the only thing that bothers me is that the persons acknowledgment of when they thought of something is taken as a control, when it is most definitly a variable.
Thoughts, and ideas just come, before you can actually tell their origin, or time of arrival.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5291844 - 02/12/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Im not stating that we cannot perceive reality, just stating that we can never experience it exactly as it is happening.

and I didnt mean to infer that any reality is more "true" than any other, just really trying to make a literary distinction. Maybe the better word would have been "external".


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5291855 - 02/12/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Reality extrinsic to our sense perception? :smile:



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5291867 - 02/12/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"Light travels through space at the speed of two hundred thousand miles per second. It takes just over eight minutes to reach us from the sun, so that the picture we have of the sun is as it was eight minutes before we looked at it. It takes four years and four months for light to reach us from the nearest star, and thirty-six years for it to reach the North Star? It takes several centuries to reach us from certain other stars which we consequently see as they were several centuries ago."


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5291887 - 02/12/06 04:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Time exists only in our minds man. there is no "Real Time". Just what we percieve. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
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Offlinefresh313
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: blaze2]
    #5291912 - 02/12/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

is not what we percieve , real time.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: fresh313]
    #5291932 - 02/12/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

nope no time is "real" its all an illusion, or an idea. there is only a single moment in truth. a "now" if you will but teh now is the whole of the past and future. its ALL. "time" is the just the observation of dynaminc matter.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: fresh313]
    #5291946 - 02/12/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Factor relativity into the question and there truly is no such thing as a universal "now".

Lets say we are both watching a ball that will be dropped from a ceiling. You are just a foot or two away from the ball, while I am ten or twenty feet away. When the ball first hits the floor we will both make a mental note of it.

The ball is dropped.

You "see" it hit the floor and make a note of it. However you didn't see it as it was happening due to the already mentioned latency in perception. Further, it takes time for the light to travel from the ball to your eyes which adds another (incredibly) small latency.

I "see" it hit the floor, though again I only "see" it after the fact due to latency of perception. I also see it a little later than you do because I am much farther away from the ball than you are - so the light takes even longer to reach my eyes.

So then my concept of the "now" when the ball hit the floor is almost entirely independant of your own concept of that "now". We both had latencies of various times added to our perception of the event.

In a physical sense, there is no such thing as universal time. One person's "now" is only their own - it can never be exactly the same as anyone else's "now".


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5292015 - 02/12/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

dude your still on percievnig time, but how can your percieve a thing that doesnt exist? you cant in reality there is no time, because time as a human idea is the passing of a moment, but the moment doesnt actually pass the things inside the moment just change. Change is not perception of time, because time only exists inside the mind, and Change obviously exists all throughout the universe even where there are no observers, so change must be independent of the perception of time.

we consider Time because we REMEMBER, if we had no memories would we even have a word for it? Nope. Things just are in the moment, they change in teh moment, the move in teh moment, but they can never leave the moment, which is why time travel is impossible(unless of course you start talking about multiple realities which is a whole different basket of eggs.) There is no past or future, they dont exist, the past is wiped away by the moment adn the future is only what the moment will become.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: blaze2]
    #5292043 - 02/12/06 05:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

i think these latency of sounds smell taste vision touch are negligble enough to be considered real time for all humans.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5292077 - 02/12/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

this is exactly the direction I wanted this thread to go in....

Blaze 2 is dead on IMO.

But with the ball analogy, I think you are discerning between physical latency.
If you were further away from the ball than I was, you would perceive it slightly later than I would, but that is mainly due to physical travel of reflections of light.

what I am talking about is the actual lapse in time between sensing something physically, and acknowledging it mentally- where it becomes the present, or "reality".


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5292096 - 02/12/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

in the mind the moment can never be realized. It is like trying to hold on to smoke.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: blaze2]
    #5292107 - 02/12/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
dude your still on percievnig time, but how can your percieve a thing that doesnt exist? you cant in reality there is no time, because time as a human idea is the passing of a moment, but the moment doesnt actually pass the things inside the moment just change. Change is not perception of time, because time only exists inside the mind, and Change obviously exists all throughout the universe even where there are no observers, so change must be independent of the perception of time.

we consider Time because we REMEMBER, if we had no memories would we even have a word for it? Nope. Things just are in the moment, they change in teh moment, the move in teh moment, but they can never leave the moment, which is why time travel is impossible(unless of course you start talking about multiple realities which is a whole different basket of eggs.) There is no past or future, they dont exist, the past is wiped away by the moment adn the future is only what the moment will become.




I certainly can perceive time, even if it isn't a physical "thing" to be seen or touched. Can you perceive distance? I can.

Time is just distance - the distance between two events, between two instances of "now".


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Edited by trendal (02/12/06 05:39 PM)


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5292931 - 02/12/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

awsome read.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: BleaK]
    #5294256 - 02/13/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the perception of something does not make it real. is distance real? It is measurable, but that does not mean reality.

In reality there is only one Now, the mind remembers past moments and that is the only place they exist. If something doesnt exist outside the mind how can it be real?


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: blaze2]
    #5294352 - 02/13/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Now equals awareness. :grin:

Blessed Awareness! :laugh:

This thread is sweet. :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: blaze2]
    #5294362 - 02/13/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the perception of something does not make it real.

But you said "how can you perceive something if it isn't real". Well, I can perceive both time and distance - so by converse they must be "real".

is distance real? It is measurable, but that does not mean reality.

How can something be measurable and yet not be real?

In reality there is only one Now, the mind remembers past moments and that is the only place they exist.

So was Einstein wrong, then? Your statement directly contradicts Relativity. I said nothing about the past/future "existing", only that there is no such thing as a "universal now" because time is relative to the observer as per Relativity.

If something doesn't exist outside the mind how can it be real?

The Mind is an extension of physical reality, so anything that happens "in the mind" is in some sense "real" - even though it isn't a physical object.

Would you say language is "real"? It doesn't exist as a physical "thing" but certainly exists in the minds of humans.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5294424 - 02/13/06 11:30 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
So was Einstein wrong, then? Your statement directly contradicts Relativity. I said nothing about the past/future "existing", only that there is no such thing as a "universal now" because time is relative to the observer as per Relativity.




I don't believe he was referring to a "universal now", but that there is one continual moment in terms of one's conscious awareness. Perhaps "when" this now is being experienced is not relevant. :wink:

Quote:


How can something be measurable and yet not be real?




Distance might be real, but the concept of time is abstract. When he states that time is not real, I would surmise that he is referring to the fact that there simply is no universal clock that denotes time, that it is an abstract measurement relating to distance and motion. Whether or not the abstraction is "real" is a question of categorization; I would state that it is not a concept inherent in reality, but that its existance as an abstract concept relating to aspects of reality that are inherent in reality is real. :smirk:

With clarification, I'm sure it would remain evident that you both are holding the same perspective on the matter. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5294516 - 02/13/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Distance might be real, but the concept of time is abstract.

Distance and time are one and the same. Distance explains the spatial separation between two objects, while time explains the temporal separation between two events or states.

When he states that time is not real, I would surmise that he is referring to the fact that there simply is no universal clock that denotes time, that it is an abstract measurement relating to distance and motion.

Again, this is exactly the same as distance - there is no universal yard stick to measure distance. It is an abstract notion relating to separation and motion.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5295205 - 02/13/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"how can you percieve something if it isnt real"

What I meant is that for something to be real it has to be percieved, BUT things that are percieved can exist in their entirety INSIDE the mind, and as such are not real.

Time has no "real" counterpart. It is an idea of the mind. "Time" in reality is ONLY the now. It's just what is, and that is the only way time exists. Einstien understood this, everything he wrote in Relativity is in support of the theory that there is no past/future, only a now. "Time" IS reality, but its not future or past realitys. Time(the moment) and space(distance), make up reality, but neither is "real" They are ideas.

space can be bent(Einstien said so, and its been proven around black holes and the like), thus negating all our perceptions of distance, and Time's true nature isnt as we humans percieve it. Time is real so far as you understand it to BE reality, and not a measurement OF reality. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineAnnom
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5295353 - 02/13/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Factor relativity into the question and there truly is no such thing as a universal "now".

..........

The ball is dropped.

You "see" it hit the floor and make a note of it. However you didn't see it as it was happening due to the already mentioned latency in perception. Further, it takes time for the light to travel from the ball to your eyes which adds another (incredibly) small latency.

I "see" it hit the floor, though again I only "see" it after the fact due to latency of perception. I also see it a little later than you do because I am much farther away from the ball than you are - so the light takes even longer to reach my eyes.

So then my concept of the "now" when the ball hit the floor is almost entirely independant of your own concept of that "now". We both had latencies of various times added to our perception of the event.

In a physical sense, there is no such thing as universal time. One person's "now" is only their own - it can never be exactly the same as anyone else's "now".




While this is correct, it isn't the real explanation why there is not a "universal now" in Special Relativity.

Two observers who have a relative velocity to each other will see the ball hit the ground at a different time, even if you correct the times with the time it took the light to travel to your eyes and correct it with the "latency of perception time".

Imagine that psilocyberin is on a planet in a galaxy far, far away - 10 billion light-years from earth - idly sitting in his living room. You are on earth and you and psilocyberin are not moving relative to each other. Since you are at rest relative to each other, you and psilocyberin agree fully on issues of space and time: your and psilocyberin's now are the same. After a little while, psilocyberin stands up and goes for a walk in a direction that is directly away from you with 10 miles per hour. The events on earth that belong on his now-list(his present) are events that happened about 150 years ago, according to you!The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time, and the Texture of Reality by Brian Greene

This now-list is corrected with the time it takes the light to travel to psilocyberin. The described effect has nothing to do with the speed of light.


Edit: Interesting result of this is that, in an infinite universe, everything in the far future and the past happens "now" for some observer(some need the speed of light though).


Edited by Annom (02/14/06 12:05 AM)


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: Annom]
    #5295741 - 02/13/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

all true Annom, but you see it as disproving the universal now, to me it only proves it. we can only percieve the results of this now.

say you leave adn take that lightspeed space ship up for some laps around the solar system, then came back to earth you are right it would be a later "time" but the gap wasnt experianced by everyone only the spaceship, people died, were born, and all that while you ran some laps. your now has changed, perception, but in reality the now never did, you just changed inside of that moment just faster than usual. its like fast forwarding a VCR tape. the end is different from the beginning but they are all the same tape. is the part you skip not real? is it not still there? Time is constant, is universal, and is but one moment.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: blaze2]
    #5296120 - 02/13/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
Time(the moment) and space(distance), make up reality, but neither is "real"  They are ideas.




Quote:

space can be bent(Einstien said so, and its been proven around black holes and the like), thus negating all our perceptions of distance, and Time's true nature isnt as we humans percieve it.




How can something that isn't real be bent? :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: Annom]
    #5296145 - 02/13/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
Imagine that psilocyberin is on a planet in a galaxy far, far away - 10 billion light-years from earth - idly sitting in his living room. You are on earth and you and psilocyberin are not moving relative to each other. Since you are at rest relative to each other, you and psilocyberin agree fully on issues of space and time: your and psilocyberin's now are the same. After a little while, psilocyberin stands up and goes for a walk in a direction that is directly away from you with 10 miles per hour. The events on earth that belong on his now-list(his present) are events that happened about 150 years ago, according to you!




The Fabric of the Cosmos?

Good book!


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleMystikMushroom
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5296489 - 02/13/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Good thought provoking read...

I can't remember who said it--either Plato or Socrates but here:

"Time is eternity in motion"  <--- Chew that over in your head...

Blaze 2's analysis lines up more with what I have personally experienced.

I belive that the higher a being's complexity, the more complex it's awareness is. I've spent time in places where my awareness was stretched so much, time seemed like a joke. The Eschaton; or the "Trancendential Object" at the end of time is a level of awareness that we might someday permanently reside in.

But for right now, current human perception of time is such that a series of linear actions are linked together in sequence.

Think if we humans could comprehend non-local information :wink:


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OfflineAnnom
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5297637 - 02/14/06 12:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

Annom said:
Imagine that psilocyberin is on a planet in a galaxy far, far away - 10 billion light-years from earth - idly sitting in his living room. You are on earth and you and psilocyberin are not moving relative to each other. Since you are at rest relative to each other, you and psilocyberin agree fully on issues of space and time: your and psilocyberin's now are the same. After a little while, psilocyberin stands up and goes for a walk in a direction that is directly away from you with 10 miles per hour. The events on earth that belong on his now-list(his present) are events that happened about 150 years ago, according to you!




The Fabric of the Cosmos?

Good book!




Yeah, I think so. I have that quote in textfile but forgot to add the source. I'm almost sure it's from the fabric of the cosmos. Thanks for the source, I'll add that.


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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5297692 - 02/14/06 12:17 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I remember reading about a surgeon in Consciousness Explained by Daniel C. Dennett who did a little research on when a signal is send from our hands or feed (when we feel something) and when this signal is received by our brain and when we actually feel it.

I remember that the body sends a timecode with the feel-signal so a signal that has to travel longer, because the nerve path is longer, is perceived at the same moment as a signal that was send from a body part near the brain. Our nerve system thus compensates for different nerve lengths so we perceive a touch at our feed and at our head at the same time when it was at the same time.

I'll try to check this when I'm home and have the book.


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Re: The latency of perception [Re: Annom]
    #5297732 - 02/14/06 12:27 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

ya it integrates it all so it meshes nicely
:cool:


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Re: The latency of perception [Re: trendal]
    #5299709 - 02/14/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

blaze2 said:
Time(the moment) and space(distance), make up reality, but neither is "real"  They are ideas.




Quote:

space can be bent(Einstien said so, and its been proven around black holes and the like), thus negating all our perceptions of distance, and Time's true nature isnt as we humans percieve it.




How can something that isn't real be bent? :wink:




perception is bent, but is the reality bending?


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: Annom]
    #5300196 - 02/14/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Ive thought about this thread all day long, and your post is basically what I was thinking about.

it is possible that our brains (perception central) could create a counter balance to perceptual latency by controlling our entire perception of time/timing.
what if our brains actually created an even greater latency of our perception so as to better control the sequence in which we perceive reality?

I dont know if it is true, but I once heard that if we were to sever a persons neocortex for a year, and then somehow re-attach it, that the person would instantly perceive everything which they were unable to for that year.
If that is possible, or even slightly true, it makes me wonder if they would actually feel in an instant every sensoral (word?) perception, or would that person experience that year in real time?


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5302879 - 02/15/06 11:57 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Great thread. Blaze2 explains my perspective perfectly.

or would that person experience that year in real time?


My vote goes to realtime. Instant flash with the experience of realtime. As a dream, or a deep trip.

I remember once tripping for maybe ten hours, but the whole trip was gathered in the fifteen minutes before midnight. Strange stuff.


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (02/15/06 12:28 PM)


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Re: The latency of perception [Re: dorkus]
    #5315877 - 02/19/06 08:55 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Whether it is now or not, latency or not, it has no bearing whatsoever on my life. Therefore, why would I choose to waist my time on the thought of it? What is the practical reason in a common life for knowing that the sun revolves around the earth? Is there really one? Why waist your mental capacities on trivial persuits, they need not apply to you.

Overanalysis is the first step toward confusion.


--------------------
[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda


Edited by justamonkey (02/19/06 08:57 AM)


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Re: The latency of perception [Re: justamonkey]
    #5316112 - 02/19/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

justamonkey said:
Overanalysis is the first step toward confusion.




Ignorance is the first step towards confusion. Any increase in understanding of the nature of reality benefits ourselves and our race further.

Quote:


Whether it is now or not, latency or not, it has no bearing whatsoever on my life. Therefore, why would I choose to waist my time on the thought of it? What is the practical reason in a common life for knowing that the sun revolves around the earth? Is there really one? Why waist your mental capacities on trivial persuits, they need not apply to you.





There is no practical reason in knowing that the Sun revolves around the Earth, as such knowledge is false, first and foremost. :tongue:

It is your choice what understanding and knowledge you wish to concern yourself with, but there is nothing to designate choosing to understand reality more fully, even if there is not a direct benefit in regards to a limited, ego-based demand or expectation, as a waste of one's time and energy.

Necessary? No. Beneficial? Yes. Enlightening? Ja! :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The latency of perception [Re: justamonkey]
    #5316390 - 02/19/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I personally had some cognitions when analyzing this thought and its implications.
i think it says a lot about our perceptions.

there really is no worth or point to anything unless you yourself place it there.


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