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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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The Backbone of Benevolence
    #5290601 - 02/12/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

by Andy Postema

Be nice! That?s a common exhortation these days. For instance, it?s the sugar coating that makes the poison of political correctness palatable. Most of the time it?s something less noxious. It?s the sappy sentimentality of people who have lost their bearings and the confidence of their convictions in this postmodern age, which puts a premium on getting along over getting it right. Even so, the injunction of the postmodernists to be nice is corrosive, as it is intended not only to soften disagreement but dissolve it altogether. The happy hand-holding goo that remains submerges whatever objective truth the clash of opposing ideas might reveal. Victory by default to the postmodernists, and a good reason to be wary of benevolence as a virtue in this battle to rescue a culture drowning in their subjectivism. Right?

Wrong. Objectivism gives benevolence a backbone that has little to do with being nice and everything to do with being rational in an irrational age.

Many misunderstand benevolence as kindliness towards others. Others reduce it to mere courtesy. Still others regard it as a type of charity, as in giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Benevolence is none of these nice things. It is a species of justice. It is the tentative judgment that another person is rational. When you make that judgment, it may also make sense to be kind, to be courteous, or to give the benefit of the doubt, but that conduct is a byproduct of benevolence. Instead, benevolence focuses you upon a higher ideal than niceness: Human beings possess rationality, therefore, they will choose to act rationally. Benevolence guides you to apply this ideal in all circumstances in which there is not evidence to the contrary. This is how Objectivism stiffens benevolence with the backbone that being nice lacks. Applying it requires critical thinking. It is not a pleasant demeanor. It is judgment; judgment that may require a response other than being nice.

So what does that mean in this squishy world of postmodern niceness? Most often, exercising benevolence does in fact mean a decision to be friendly and courteous. It may even mean maintaining a courteous demeanor when someone does not reciprocate, if you judge that he or she is essentially rational and will act like it in the absence of provocation. Benevolence will often direct you to not stand on your rights and take offense at every sleight. It will usually prompt you to forgive and forget when an apology is offered. But, benevolence must look hard-hearted at times. It may demand that you respond harshly if that is the tone that will cut through the noise of a person?s irrationality. Benevolence needs a loud and disapproving voice when you judge that is what will get the rational ear of a person behaving irrationally. There are other situations in which benevolence advises against draping doilies over every contentious word. It will direct you to treat others as rational adults who do not need to be patronized with smiley-faced circumlocutions to take the edge off an honestly expressed thought. This is because people interacting rationally value forthrightness and honesty in each other, especially when the matter at hand may be unpleasant. Benevolence dispenses with the sugar coating. This is when the backbone of benevolence is most evident in your interaction with others.

As important as benevolence?properly understood?is in avoiding the quicksands of niceness, there?s a lot more to it. To further demonstrate that benevolence is objective judgment and not friendly demeanor, it can guide you in forming a judgment of a person you haven't even met, a circumstance in which your demeanor is irrelevant. An emergency situation will illustrate this point. You are on a dock and see a drowning boy. You also see a rope on a nearby boat that you can use to save his life. What you don?t see is the owner of the boat, so you cannot ask his permission to use the rope. Therefore, you exercise benevolence. You make the tentative judgment that the boat owner is rational and would want his rope used to save the boy. Based upon that judgment, you take the rope to rescue the boy from drowning. Afterward, you put the rope back on the boat, and its owner may never know what happened or who you are. In that case he?ll certainly have no knowledge of your demeanor?i.e., how nice you are?even though you did treat him benevolently. Had you not made a benevolent judgment of the absent boat owner and instead feared his hostility toward the taking of his rope, the boy would have drowned. The irrationality of that fear was that you had no evidence that the boat owner would be hostile. Benevolence guides you away from such irrationality.

The drowning boy scenario shows why benevolence is an Objectivist virtue, as opposed to merely rational conduct in the face of today?s wishy-washy postmodern culture. It subdues the irrational fears and hatreds that prevent or sour relationships with others, even fleeting ones, from bearing fruit. Remember, benevolence is a synonym for goodwill, which in turn is used by corporations to define the store of intangible value accumulated from business relationships. Similarly, exercising benevolence helps you to accumulate value from your relationships by stiffening your backbone to fearlessly embrace the ideal that people will act rationally because they possess reason, instead of rationalizing petty squabbles and cowardly retreats as standing on your rights in response to the irrationality of others. That is why benevolence is a virtue. It is an attribute of a hero, not a rational miser of goodwill. Its reward is the value that comes from cultivating the rationality of others and increasing the happiness and productivity of your relationships with them. The only cost is the occasional disappointment. It?s the best bargain there is.




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5290634 - 02/12/06 01:12 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting read. :thumbup:

Quote:


So what does that mean in this squishy world of postmodern niceness? Most often, exercising benevolence does in fact mean a decision to be friendly and courteous. It may even mean maintaining a courteous demeanor when someone does not reciprocate, if you judge that he or she is essentially rational and will act like it in the absence of provocation. Benevolence will often direct you to not stand on your rights and take offense at every sleight. It will usually prompt you to forgive and forget when an apology is offered. But, benevolence must look hard-hearted at times. It may demand that you respond harshly if that is the tone that will cut through the noise of a person?s irrationality. Benevolence needs a loud and disapproving voice when you judge that is what will get the rational ear of a person behaving irrationally.




Sometimes it is necessary to highlight. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5290646 - 02/12/06 01:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5290657 - 02/12/06 01:23 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I like the idea of initially regarding everyone as though they are centered in a higher level of awarenes and utilizing a heightened degree of reason. Such projections alter the manners in which we would interact with these people, causing ourselves to become centered in a higher sense of awareness. The experience that would result for them would likely be  very beneficial and rewarding to the development of themselves and their mind, as well as ours. :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5292394 - 02/12/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)



Benevolence is looked down upon in the Yanomamo culture. They value FIERCENESS... in fact their name translates roughly to "The Fierce People". If you are "nice" or "polite" in this society you will be laughed at, called a pussy, and then you will have your ass kicked. Literally! They pretty much beat the shit out of each other for fun, and for honor. They snort buttloads of DMT too! They often are raiding other villages for food, cattle, women.... etc.

So what does your objective interpretation of benevolence say to this?

Objectivity is just another subjective cultural paradigm. Your article only makes sense to PostModern Western societies...


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: dr0mni]
    #5292463 - 02/12/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Benevolence is looked down upon in the Yanomamo culture. They value FIERCENESS... in fact their name translates roughly to "The Fierce People". If you are "nice" or "polite" in this society you will be laughed at, called a pussy, and then you will have your ass kicked. Literally! They pretty much beat the shit out of each other for fun, and for honor. They snort buttloads of DMT too! They often are raiding other villages for food, cattle, women.... etc.


Buttloads of DMT... intriguing! Can't say I'm not envious. But really, I'm intrigued how these primitives really function like such - it must be a sight to see. Where do they draw the line between being "nice" or "polite" and being "fierce"? What about when someone is injured and need help?
Does being fierce and forceful upon others promote reason and intellectual progress?

So what does your objective interpretation of benevolence say to this?

What do I have to say to this? Well, you've shown me a case involving primitive minded, barbaric tribes that indulge in absurd amounts of violence behavior... Is this supposed to be a case against benevolence? Is that what you're trying to present here?

Objectivity is just another subjective cultural paradigm. Your article only makes sense to PostModern Western societies...

Objectivity is a paradigm symbolic of a matured, rational society - it shares its fundamental roots with Science and is a hallmark of a civilized society. Of course this would be rather..alien to primitive cultures that haven't recovered from the medieval ages. So what?



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5293487 - 02/13/06 12:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This intricate expansion on the definition ties in a lot with honesty. If you're honest, you will always do your best and act just. If you're false and plastic, your ego will always prevail your personality and make you fake.

I also feel the concept of "walking the path of a warrior" in Castaneda's writings elaborate on this concept quite well.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: dr0mni]
    #5293806 - 02/13/06 05:45 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Just goes to show you that psychedelics by themselves do not work, without a sacred model (a ladder, a tree, a world axis, a world navel, etc.) that leads one to a higher level of existence. Above the merely animal sensual existence, and above the level of mere personality is the level of 'soul' (whatever one wishes to call the domain of the Higher Self). Its existence is epitomized by the Compassion-centered being symbolized as Christ or Buddha. Those who trip out and remain centered in instinctual and aggressive impulses are just fixated crazy-assed adolescents who get older but who do not 'grow up.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5293892 - 02/13/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Benevolence. Not simply a loan with still Roman ties meaning good wishing will.

Benevolence. What's that but ressentiment? Ah! It is Roman -- i.e. Christian.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5294042 - 02/13/06 08:46 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Those who trip out and remain centered in instinctual and aggressive impulses are just fixated crazy-assed adolescents who get older but who do not 'grow up.'




How can an animal behave other than instinctually?  :smirk:

Isn't a state of compassion merely another instinctual response?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5294090 - 02/13/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
How can an animal behave other than instinctually?  :smirk:




Learned behavior? My dog exhibits it all the time.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5294098 - 02/13/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Behavior is learned instinctually. In fact, any type of animal behavior, regardless of complexity, is still operating on the instinctual level.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5294206 - 02/13/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Behavior is learned instinctually.  In fact, any type of animal behavior, regardless of complexity, is still operating on the instinctual level.




Perhaps the mechanism that allows an animal to develop learned behavior is operating on an instinctual level, but the behavior itself is not an instinct.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5294234 - 02/13/06 10:17 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Behavior is learned instinctually. In fact, any type of animal behavior, regardless of complexity, is still operating on the instinctual level.




Perhaps the mechanism that allows an animal to develop learned behavior is operating on an instinctual level, but the behavior itself is not an instinct.




What is this mechanism? And when does any behavior transcend instinct? Learning new behaviors is a process of instinctually adapting to our environment in order to heighten the probability of our survival. How is a fit of primal rage any different than the social act of shaking hands and being civil with someone in order to avoid conflict? Our behaviors are the manifestation of our instincts adapting to any particular environment, just as your dog adapted to the training procedures which you put him through.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5294309 - 02/13/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


From  this website:

It is often useful to distinguish between

    * innate behavior = behavior determined by the "hard-wiring" of the nervous system. It is usually inflexible, a given stimulus triggering a given response. A salamander raised away from water until long after its siblings begin swimming successfully will swim every bit as well as they the very first time it is placed in the water. Clearly this rather elaborate response is "built in" in the species and not something that must be acquired by practice.

    * learned behavior = behavior that is more or less permanently altered as a result of the experience of the individual organism (e.g., learning to play baseball well)




The information provided for "innate behavior" lists instincts as one kind of innate behavior. The page goes on to state that analysis often shows that any behavior is a combination of innate and learned components.

The majority of my dog's responses to occurences in his surroundings are not instinctual. Such behavior is either an alteration of innate behavior or even not. When I come home from work at lunch and take my dog outside, it is not an innate behavior for him to come back inside, return to the bathroom, and drag out all of his babies (his toys) into the living room. :grin:

Quote:


Pavlov's dogs were restrained and the response being conditioned (salivation) was innate.

But the principles of conditioning can also be used to train animals to perform tasks that are not innate.




Check out the pictures of the bird hitting the button and getting a treat, and also of the monkey playing the maze. It also lists examples of animal's ability to form concepts.

Quote:


From a  different website:

Several researchers have demonstrated pigeons' ability to categorize pictures into two classes -- for example "containing" or "not containing" -- people, trees, etc.  They will readily classify new pictures with about the same accuracy as will people given the same task.  In one study, pigeons classified pictures according to whether a specific person was included (the girlfriend of one of the researchers).  They therefore showed that they could identify an individual person despite changes in clothing, hairstyle, angle of photo, etc.  They even are pretty good at distinguishing pictures that include fish from underwater scenes that do not contain fish.




:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5294324 - 02/13/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
The majority of my dog's responses to occurences in his surroundings are not instinctual. Such behavior is either an alteration of innate behavior or even not.




Yes, this is what I'm saying. Learned behavior is innate behavior adapted, or "altered" to comply with the environment which the organism inhabits. There is no seperate faculty for socially or environmentally imposed behaviors, simply adaptation.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5294459 - 02/13/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I'm aware of what you are saying, I was simply clarifying that the fact that most learned behavior is an alteration of an innate behavior does not mean that the learned behavior itself is instinctual, nor that the animal is living on the instinctual level. Instinct is merely one aspect of innate behavior in the first place. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5294708 - 02/13/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Fair enough, but my original point was that, with all due respect to Markos, his views on the use of psychedelics seem rather dogmatic.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5294721 - 02/13/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

How can an animal behave other than instinctually?

Isn't a state of compassion merely another instinctual response?





Depends on how you define instinct. Do you see it as behaviors you are programmed to perform, acting as if you have no alternative choice in the matter? We see people act through alternative choices all of the time.

Instinct is like a built in hard wired survival program. Everything we do out of choice that deviates from it is like our soft programming.

This is akin to predetermined and free will arguments.

A human that lives in the desert isn't hard wired to learn how to swim, it has to learn how. Living there, learning how to swim is not even necessary for its survival. A human can still choose to learn how to in a pool, for its own pure enjoyment. If anything, the time learning may put the humans life at RISK of drowning to death.

How would you tie the desire for the desert dweller to learn how to swim as coming from instinct?

How is sky diving, bungee jumping, race car driving, necessary to our survival? These activities risk it. Humans do seem to make free will choices that deviate from survival adaptations.

A snake on the other hand, never shows such behavior.

Anyway, I was intrigued at the question about compassion being either instinct behavior or learn behavior that adapted itself to human survival, or if it is purely a choice for the joy it brings that could actually put ones life at risk.

Compassion could keep you from killing a mortal enemy who seeks to kill you. That could be potential life risking behavior to let him live.

It could be argued that acts of compassion and willing good for all, protects more of life and aids the survival of the species, however, that overrides Darwin's animistic, instinctive notion of survival of the fittest.

Perhaps this is how the nature of primal instinct evolves itself over time.

Then, you have intuition which overrides all instinctive and learned programming including what would be considered 'self evident". The guy standing over a dead body with the gun in his hand, isn't necessarily the killer as it would appear. What if instinct had you blow his head off when, he just happened upon the scene and picked up the gun just before you arrived and someone else was the killer?

Intuition can be thought of a very highly developed form of instinct that acts as an opposite in many cases. Like in those murder cases where everyone is sure the guy is guilty and there is that one person who just feels/knows he's not and further investigation proves that person right. 

In other words, we see in humans behaviors that do not match survival of the fittest mentality or learned behavior as a form of adapting to changing survival needs.

Benevolent acts seem to appear when Fear of ones own survival is removed from the equation.

Benevolence appears to me to be the evolution from out of primitive fear based survival instincts. If you look at benevolence as objectively as you can, it would seem its goal is to keep the essence of unconditional love alive. That may be what saves the  WHOLE of life itself from self destruction and just a higher or more complex order of survival instincts.:shrug:


This is an interesting topic to examine. :thumbup:

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Backbone of Benevolence [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5295536 - 02/13/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Fair enough, but my original point was that, with all due respect to Markos, his views on the use of psychedelics seem rather dogmatic.




WOOF! WOOF! WOOF!


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