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gregorio
Too Damn Old


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,831
Loc: Classified
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: lysergicide]
#5298181 - 02/14/06 06:04 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
lysergicide said: I'm going to have to try this the fuck out
Famous last words.
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gregorio
Too Damn Old


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,831
Loc: Classified
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: TM]
#5298187 - 02/14/06 06:08 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
TripMeister said: I love to feel the compression of the blast and feel the ground shake.
Quote:
One of my favorites is to fire bottle rockets at it from 150 feet away. It's damn hard to hit it, but when you do, BOOOOOOM!! A large fireball and an
You can feel compresion and the ground shake from 150 feet away?
That sounds pretty serious.
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eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: TM]
#5298194 - 02/14/06 06:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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do it!
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
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TM
The Mind, The Many, The Music.



Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 8,282
Loc: Under The Table And Dream...
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: gregorio]
#5298200 - 02/14/06 06:21 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
gregorio said:
You can feel compresion and the ground shake from 150 feet away?
That sounds pretty serious.
Yes, if mixed in proper proportion, you certainly can get one HELL of a potent BOOM. Oxygen is k3y.
-------------------- ================================================
"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. TM™
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TM
The Mind, The Many, The Music.



Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 8,282
Loc: Under The Table And Dream...
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Seuss]
#5298222 - 02/14/06 06:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Seuss:
You certainly are wise and very well versed, but obviously inexperienced with actually doing this or being present when it's being done. I'd be willing to bet you've never handled a cutting torch in a shop environment either.
In THEORY, I suppose it MAY be possible for what you say can happen to actually happen, but you'd have a much better chance at being struck by lightning or solely winning a $300,000,000.00 lottery.
Having done this over 150 times without even a hint of a chance of a mishap, I'm QUITE confident that my methods are VERY SAFE.
Finally, if you value your well-being so dearly, I suggest you stay out of any motor vehicle at all times because you'll have a far better chance at being injured riding in or driving one than you would making and detonating a trash bag bomb with my methods.
-------------------- ================================================
"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. TM™
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: TM]
#5298312 - 02/14/06 07:32 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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> but obviously inexperienced with actually doing this or being present when it's being done
Incorrect. I blew out the windows in my high school with a garbage bag full of acetelyne/oxygen in a stairwell. I had a very active childhood...
> I'd be willing to bet you've never handled a cutting torch in a shop environment either.
You would be wrong. I spent a semester working in a machine shop for the experience. I spent most of my time making titanium nozzles, not using a cutting torch. However, I think I was only twelve when my Grandfather taught me how to use his cutting torch and tig welder.
> Having done this over 150 times without even a hint of a chance of a mishap
Only takes one mishap to kill... static electricity is going to be your biggest concern... as I said, I have seen too many accidents (both in training and a few first hand) to have such a lackadaisical attitude.
> I'm QUITE confident that my methods are VERY SAFE.
*sigh* Well, at least nobody can claim that I didn't try... The explosives industry is full of accident reports made about people that were exremly confident in their safety methods.
> Finally, if you value your well-being so dearly
It isn't me that I am worried about, but rather the other people reading your post thinking that they are safe doing something that can be extremly dangerous. You can play 150 holes of golf during a lightning storm and never get elecrocuted... but that doesn't mean it is safe... sooner or later, you are going to get bit.
Don't take my word for it... direct from the rec.pyrotechnics FAQ:
Quote:
Pyrotechnics and explosives are not safe - factories have been destroyed in the past, and they have access to the best materials and equipment, and take the most stringent safety precautions. Some people on the net have also been injured by accidents, and many of them had years of experience and took extremely comprehensive safety measures.
I can't stress this enough... I have seen experts in the explosives field that have done the same thing year after year get hurt in accidents for no apparent reason. Nothing changed, but for some reason whatever they were working on detonated... this time... when it had not time and time again in the past.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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TM
The Mind, The Many, The Music.



Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 8,282
Loc: Under The Table And Dream...
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Seuss]
#5298339 - 02/14/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yep. You are absolutely correct.
Realize this though... Pretty much everything you do in life that's exciting and fun involves a certain amount of risk.
ie: Bungy jumping, roller coasters, water skiing, downhill racing or skiing, snowbarding, MOTORCYCLE RIDING... I could go on and on and on with a list of things that people love to do that can get them mamed or killed by some freak accident. This is simply another one.
Have a nice day.
-------------------- ================================================
"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. TM™
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Seuss]
#5298409 - 02/14/06 08:35 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Seuss is right, static electricity is a major hazard. That likely blew up the car in the news article, static between the balloon and synthetic upholstery of the car seat.
The reason why acetylene-oxygen mixtures explode particularly loud is because Acetylene, even without oxygen, can detonate (rather than deflagrate) making the flame shoot at km/sec instead of m/sec velocities.
Basically such a bag is a true Fuel Air Explosive (like the MOAB weapon of mass destruction) meaning a detonating gas mixture.
Your bags will, like you said, explode with a large concussion effect. Eardrums, like windowpanes, are very sensitive to a shove like that and torn eardrums = stone deaf.
If it explodes close to you you can expect: 1..torn eardrums (deaf) 2..scorched lungs (respirator) It will likely not set you on fire but you will get showered by droplets of boiling plastic.
Dry ice bombs. The dry ice is *very* cold. This will cause the plastic to freeze and may turn it into a blast of razorsharp shards. This does happen. Also they may not go off, causing the high pressure bottle to just lie there and explode when touched. If you are going to insist on doing Dry Ice bombs you *must* bring a BB gun to set off any bottles that might stall in this way. Concussive (eardrum) blast just like Tripmeister's bags.
Muriatic acid. Not just a concussive blast, but you get the privilege of being doused in muriatic acid. Your eyes (blindness) and ears (deafness) are most at risk.
Flash powder. Flash powder you REALLY shouldn't mess with. That stuff can go off on the slightest provocation and when it does, it will cause major injury. Have you ever blown hard at a handful of foamy lather? Flsashpowder will blast your flesh apart like you blow at lather. On top of that flashpowder produces a tremendous report and because it is thermobaric it easily scorches and burns you. To top it off even small quantities of it are self-confining, meaning they explode in the open air.
Making fireworks is an art and it requires extensive knowledge and skill to prevent accidents. Most stuff on the internet is absolute rubbish presented by so-called experts.
It is amazingly easy to get into dangerous territory when you start playing with firework-type things
If you want to learn something useful about fireworks, buy the book:
"Fireworks, the art, science and technique" by Takeo Shimizu
which will teach you all the basic skills and knowledge to start off on a pyrotechnic hobby. Mind you: sept 11 took alot of the fun out of it, a harmless rocketeer might well be convicted of terrorism.
Watch out with these homemade things, they often get ugly quite fast. Don't *ever* use steel confinement and remember the hand grenade drill axiom: "if you can see the grenade, the grenade can see you"
If you however make decent firework bangers with paper & starch glue and set these off under very safe conditions in places where such doesnt disturb others then you have my blessing  As a young teen I was a boomer myself and I can vouch for the fact that half an ounce of simple sugar/saltpeter composition in a strong paper tube can fulfill all your loudness needs and be reasonably safe to handle.
Attached is my favorite dumbass fireworks accident. It isn't gory or disgusting, rather fun actually, but you'll need to watch with the sound cranked up LOUD. The kid was OK, i'm told.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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TM
The Mind, The Many, The Music.



Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 8,282
Loc: Under The Table And Dream...
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Asante]
#5298470 - 02/14/06 09:20 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Seuss is right, static electricity is a major hazard. That likely blew up the car in the news article, static between the balloon and synthetic upholstery of the car seat.
That's one possibility, I suppose. The static build/discharge theory is pure speculation, but a rubber balloon is 100 times more succeptable to creating static than a polyethylene bag.
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: The reason why acetylene-oxygen mixtures explode particularly loud is because Acetylene, even without oxygen, can detonate (rather than deflagrate) making the flame shoot at km/sec instead of m/sec velocities.
I think you have that ass-backward. Without being mixed with oxygen or air, acetylene burns MUCH slower, not faster. In fact, with my mixture, it's not a flame that you see at all. It's more of a flash. If you reverse the quantities, (70% acetylene, 30% oxygen) you get a very visible and much quieter explosion. It produces a slow-burning orange ball of flame.
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Your bags will, like you said, explode with a large concussion effect. Eardrums, like windowpanes, are very sensitive to a shove like that and torn eardrums = stone deaf.
If it explodes close to you you can expect: 1..torn eardrums (deaf) 2..scorched lungs (respirator) It will likely not set you on fire but you will get showered by droplets of boiling plastic.
Torn eardrums, though painful and deafening are not permanently damaged. They heal. The deafness is only temporary.
Scorched lungs?? Highly doubtful, unless you're taking a deep breath right when the explosion occurs within an inch or two of your face.
Droplets of boiling plastic??? Dude, the bag disintegrates into vapor leaving only the sealed end and no trace of the rest of it anywhere to be found in the tinyest of specs.
I just love how people like to speculate the outcome of something they've never witnessed in person. It's hilarious.
-------------------- ================================================
"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. TM™
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automan
blasted chipmunk


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Seuss]
#5298493 - 02/14/06 09:34 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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/me awards seuss 10 points for using the word lackadaisical is a thread on the shroomery
-------------------- No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr
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TM
The Mind, The Many, The Music.



Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 8,282
Loc: Under The Table And Dream...
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: automan]
#5298550 - 02/14/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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And how many points do I get for the use of absolute logic?
That's extremely rare on this board. Especially in this forum. (and OTD)

Damn luthiers coming around handing out random points like strips of blotter to a broke-ass hippie with a couple of scratched frets and busted G string. 
automan
-------------------- ================================================
"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. TM™
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: TM]
#5298649 - 02/14/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think you have that ass-backward. Without being mixed with oxygen or air, acetylene burns MUCH slower, not faster.
Thats deflagration. It doesn't progress to detonation because there is no sudden energy pulse. Acetylene is provided as a gas dissolved in a solvent such as acetone (rather than compressed to a liquid) because such a cilinder would blow up the entire workshop if it fell over.
Acetylene is an endothermic compound which is explosive by itself, so a bag full of acetylene can explode as hard or harder as an oxygen mix, it just won't do that most of the time if a flame is applied.
Quote:
In fact, with my mixture, it's not a flame that you see at all. It's more of a flash.
That's because of the velocity. A balanced O2/C2H2 gas mixture accellerates very rapidly into a high-order detonation, much faster than lets say methane/oxygen.
Quote:
Torn eardrums, though painful and deafening are not permanently damaged. They heal. The deafness is only temporary.
that makes it ok?
Quote:
Scorched lungs?? Highly doubtful, unless you're taking a deep breath right when the explosion occurs within an inch or two of your face.
Gasping for breath is the thing you immediately do after getting the wind knocked out of you by a concussive blast - by reflex.
The area where the temperature is several hundred degrees is several times bigger than the bag, and it's exploding while you're handling it.
Quote:
Droplets of boiling plastic??? Dude, the bag disintegrates into vapor leaving only the sealed end and no trace of the rest of it anywhere to be found in the tinyest of specs.
The droplets disintegrate in flight. If you are *at* the place where it goes off you'll get sandblasted by boiling plastic because they disintegrate over time and distance, even if that's a couple of miliseconds and a couple of feet.
Quote:
I just love how people like to speculate the outcome of something they've never witnessed in person. It's hilarious.
I have witnessed acetylene/oxygen bags. Seuss has witnessed them. So who's speculating. There is a difference between obsewrving a phenomenon and knowing the science involved.
You can't be eyewitness to milisecond events, but if you know the science behind it you are privy to details beyond the spectacular bang and once you realize what really happens in even a small explosion you are filled with awe and respect for the phenomenon, resulting in you recognising the dangers where others see mere fun.
Plastic bags of acetylene/oxygen mixture can go off at any time, especially when they are handled.
Once the reaction propagates by shock rather than heat the dangers go through the roof.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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mediman0078
Stilllooking.....

Registered: 11/14/05
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Asante]
#5298668 - 02/14/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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"You'll shoot yer eye out, kid..."

I wouldn't go claiming that any of this stuff is "safe". Just don't be dumb and blow yourself up. You all should know there's inherent danger anytime you mess around with this kinda stuff... that's a given.
-------------------- ........someday I'll find it.
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Asante]
#5298724 - 02/14/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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So, could you like fill up a basketball with that mixture and throw it at stuff?
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TM
The Mind, The Many, The Music.



Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 8,282
Loc: Under The Table And Dream...
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Asante]
#5298733 - 02/14/06 10:53 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh, man, I'm tired of arguing with you. I already agreed that Seuss was absolutely correct.
You, Wiccan, are not completely correct. You are conflagrating and composing and exaggerating and assuming and simply fabricating.
Stop already.
I repeat:
Pretty much everything you do in life that's exciting and fun involves a certain amount of risk.
ie: Bungee jumping, roller coasters, water skiing, downhill racing or skiing, snowboarding, MOTORCYCLE RIDING... I could go on and on and on with a list of things that people love to do that can get them maimed or killed by some freak accident. This is simply another one.
Have a nice day.
-------------------- ================================================
"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. TM™
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: TM]
#5298751 - 02/14/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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What about my basketball idea?
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mediman0078
Stilllooking.....

Registered: 11/14/05
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Microcosmatrix]
#5298766 - 02/14/06 11:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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You could be the first to blow off your arm with a basketball!! DO IT DO IT DO IT! You'll be famous...... well, here at least.... 
You'd need more of a way to detonate the ball than just tossing it.
-------------------- ........someday I'll find it.
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: mediman0078]
#5298781 - 02/14/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well if it detonates from shock.. toss it at a cop car and see what happens.
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TM
The Mind, The Many, The Music.



Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 8,282
Loc: Under The Table And Dream...
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: Microcosmatrix]
#5298785 - 02/14/06 11:12 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Microcosmatrix said: So, could you like fill up a basketball with that mixture and throw it at stuff?
Well, first of all, it would be very difficult to fill a basketball with those gases without elaborate modification to hoses to adapt a needle.
Second, it would be impossible to get enough of the gasses into a basketball to make the resulting explosion worthwhile.
Third, the only ways to detonate it would be to use a powerful squib or toss the basketball into a fire.
Lastly, why the hell would you want to "throw it at stuff'? What would that accomplish that a basketball full of air wouldn't?
-------------------- ================================================
"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. TM™
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Trash Bag Bomb... Anyone Else Ever Done This? [Re: TM]
#5298788 - 02/14/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I was just thinking of creating a "people's army" of people with acetylene basketballs, that's all.
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