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Offlineexclusive58
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Registered: 04/16/04
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The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm
    #5288228 - 02/11/06 11:39 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If we're looking at the highlights of human development, you have to look at the evolution of the organism and then at the development of its interaction with the environment. Evolution of the organism will begin with the evolution of life perceived through the hominid coming to the evolution of mankind. Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man. Now, interestingly, what you're looking at here are three strings: biological, anthropological -- development of the cities -- and cultural, which is human expression.

Now, what you've seen here is the evolution of populations, not so much the evolution of individuals. And in addition, if you look at the time scales that are involved here -- two billion years for life, six million years for the hominid, 100,000 years for mankind as we know it -- you're beginning to see the telescoping nature of the evolutionary paradigm. And then when you get to agricultural, when you get to scientific revolution and industrial revolution, you're looking at 10,000 years, 400 years, 150 years. Uou're seeing a further telescoping of this evolutionary time. What that means is that as we go through the new evolution, it's gonna telescope to the point we should be able to see it manifest itself within our lifetime, within this generation.

The new evolution stems from information, and it stems from two types of information: digital and analog. The digital is artificial intelligence. The analog results from molecular biology, the cloning of the organism. And you knit the two together with neurobiology. Before on the old evolutionary paradigm, one would die and the other would grow and dominate. But under the new paradigm, they would exist as a mutually supportive, noncompetitive grouping. Okay, independent from the external.

And what is interesting here is that evolution now becomes an individually centered process, emanating from the needs and desires of the individual, and not an external process, a passive process where the individual is just at the whim of the collective. So, you produce a neo-human, okay, with a new individuality and a new consciousness. But that's only the beginning of the evolutionary cycle because as the next cycle proceeds, the input is now this new intelligence. As intelligence piles on intelligence, as ability piles on ability, the speed changes. Until what? Until we reach a crescendo in a way could be imagined as an enormous instantaneous fulfillment of human, human and neo-human potential. It could be something totally different. It could be the amplification of the individual, the multiplication of individual existences. Parallel existences now with the individual no longer restricted by time and space.

And the manifestations of this neo-human-type evolution, manifestations could be dramatically counter-intuitive. That's the interesting part. The old evolution is cold. It's sterile. It's efficient, okay? And its manifestations of those social adaptations. We're talking about parasitism, dominance, morality, okay? Uh, war, predation, these would be subject to de-emphasis. These will be subject to de-evolution. The new evolutionary paradigm will give us the human traits of truth, of loyalty, of justice, of freedom. These will be the manifestations of the new evolution. And that is what we would hope to see from this. That would be nice.






(from Waking Life of course)

One of my favorite scenes from the movie. What do you guys think of this telescopic nature of evolution. And how do you think this new evolution will manifest itself, if it really does happen in our lifetime?


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Offlinebigbadwolf
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: exclusive58]
    #5288396 - 02/11/06 01:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I watched that movie again last night and I had sort of forgotten about that scene but when it came on I was reminded of a few weeks ago at a sort of acid party. I had almost that exact same conversation, that things are progressing so much faster every day. Strange.

I don't think we will really be able to understand where we are going without actually being there.


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: bigbadwolf]
    #5288981 - 02/11/06 04:56 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Wouldn't it be interesting if there was cellular consciousness? A hive mind of all living tissue. It could quite possibly be god.


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Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: Dmonikal]
    #5289347 - 02/11/06 06:36 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ive come to the same place in my search for God Dmonikal. Its definately still on my list of possibilities, though now I tend to dwell more on the ideas of God than his true form or semblance.

as for the "telescoping evolution" theory, I could add some more evidence to it. Our entire socio-cultural history of western civilaztion is proof of this theory, and it plays out in cycles. using modern terms it swings to the left(liberal), and back to the right(conservative). These swings used to take centuries to manifest. I'll start at Rome, though the pattern goes back farther.

Rome was a pretty liberal place(the first republic, homosexuality accepted, etc.) it ruled most of mankind, but after a while the empire fell and the world recedeed into the dark ages which were quite conservative(church run, mistreatment of slaves and the poor, etc.) Both of these swings took several centuries by themselves.

Of course the dark ages ended with teh renisances(liberal, rebirth of science, art, literature etc.) which lasted a while, but fell into the wars of the 1600s or so(not sure if this has a name, but I know its when Napoleon was running around conquering) again this was the right, then it went back to the left during the american revolution(freedom for all and all that jazz), each of these has taken progressivly less time to complete its cycle,

The industrial revolution was a time of the right, and led into the early 1900s and the first world war, exiting this was the 20's a definate swing to the left(everyone celebrating the end of the war), but the 30s ended up being a depression and another world war, back to the right, exiting this there is a time of the right that lasts awhile, for the whole world is walking on eggshells to avoid the third war.

Eventually during the 50-60s there was the pshychedelic revolution a definate swing to the left, which continued through the 70's, 80s back to teh right(drug war), 90s to the left(internet boom), 2000's to the right(bush conservative crap). I predict that the 2000's have almost or already reaced their peak to the right, and will begin to swing back to the left soon.

You can clearly see shorter and shorter intervals. Towards the end these are mainly american dates but most of the american swings echo in the rest of the western world, as america is its leader. much as Rome set the example for its entire empire. Interesting is the fact that though the intervals have become shorter, the "distance" of the swing(I.E. how far to the right or left it swings) seems to remain pretty steady. Sure punishments have become much more humane, but the rules of the right and the rules of the left have not all that much changed. The right seems to be constantly scared of losing its power, and as im sure they all actually believe that the world wouldnt work without them, they tend to sacrifice freedoms in the name of "your safety". At first the sheep of the world agree with this, but eventually they realize how much has been taken from them and remove the right from power. The left on the other hand are left to restore freedoms and all that, but as the people have been without them they nearly always fall into the trap of abusing any restored/new freedoms, this leads back to the right which come in to "fix the broken system", which they in turn break again.

Do you see how each causes the other? That the cycle is not breakable? and that its because of this reason that no great civilaztion has ever endured?

"A Nation divided can not stand" is in the bible somewhere I think.

anyways I've rambled enough for right now. Peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: blaze2]
    #5290647 - 02/12/06 03:18 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
90s to the left(internet boom), 2000's to the right(bush conservative crap).




It is interesting to see this progression that you describe reach the point where the cycle alternates between conservative and liberal nearly every day. :grin:

I predict that we will soon impeach George W. Bush and reinstate him in office a week later. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5291050 - 02/12/06 11:43 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

if you really find it interesting that the cycle is coming to a point, perhaps you should ask yourself what comes next.

mod edit: This forum is for intelligent discussion, not for belittling someone who holds differing opinions.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Annom (02/12/06 12:07 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: exclusive58]
    #5291087 - 02/12/06 12:07 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The notion of "the fufillment of human potential" is intriguing. :thumbup:

Change is constant. The more we interact, the more we evolve. I can definitely see how this could be exponentially increasing in terms of our species. The more we understand ourselves and our environment, the more able we will be able to manifest this potential.

It all starts with focusing inward, understanding and developing one's mind and its ability to direct focus and increase in awareness. :mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: blaze2]
    #5291094 - 02/12/06 12:10 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
if you really find it interesting that the cycle is coming to a point, perhaps you should ask yourself what comes next.




Transcendence.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5291145 - 02/12/06 12:48 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Mod edit: You can use PM to contact other users or mods about personal or moderation problems, don't use this thread for that. Thanks!


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Annom (02/12/06 01:31 PM)


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Offlineexclusive58
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Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: blaze2]
    #5291278 - 02/12/06 02:13 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

aww man, i missed the drama! :wink:

Thanx anyways for the input blaze2, I agree with your that there's some kind of political periodic cycle in history that has intervals that are getting shorter and shorter. What's most interesting is that you can notice this same type of pattern, not only in politics, but also in the philosophical realm, the scientific realm, in the cultural realm, the technological realm, and in evolution in general.

It does seem that everything is speeding up and striving to get to a certain critical point.. :shrug:


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5291289 - 02/12/06 02:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

blaze2 said:
if you really find it interesting that the cycle is coming to a point, perhaps you should ask yourself what comes next.




Transcendence.





Ya, to me that word is bull's eye. I didn't think that you were one to agree with such an idea though. Did you just say that as a sarcastic joke?


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: exclusive58]
    #5291880 - 02/12/06 05:57 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

surprising is that he deleted the part where I admitted that Fireworks was right......and yep it still feels weird. I'm not allowed to use graimlens aparrently they are reserved for the tattle tales.

peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: blaze2]
    #5292314 - 02/12/06 08:41 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

But this paradigm only sees it going in one direction and assumes that it is constant. What about the universes tendency to fluctuate? Like waves being pushed together into one crest. It doesn't mean that there will be some supercrest at some point from all the waves being pushed infinitely together.

You will get a peak... and it will subside...


the word travels in waves.


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Invisiblekake
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: dr0mni]
    #5293332 - 02/13/06 01:31 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Waking Life is awesome...nuff said.  I'll add more to this post later :wink:


--------------------
The answer to 1984 is 1776.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: exclusive58]
    #5293341 - 02/13/06 01:38 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I urge you all to download this and give it a listen, think most of you will resonate with it. It's a lecture by Daniel Pinchbeck (author of Breaking Open The Head) in which he talks about lots of things... time cycles, synchronicity, 2012...

click


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OfflineFospher
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: dr0mni]
    #5293421 - 02/13/06 02:05 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
But this paradigm only sees it going in one direction and assumes that it is constant. What about the universes tendency to fluctuate? Like waves being pushed together into one crest. It doesn't mean that there will be some supercrest at some point from all the waves being pushed infinitely together.

You will get a peak... and it will subside...


the word travels in waves.




Interesting thought, but why do you assume a come-down? The frequency of the waves can increase as well as the amplitude without the implication of a decrease. Gamma rays dont decrease back into Radio.

The only crash I see feasable is the troughs being as big as our crests. Oil depletion, ozone layer, nuclear warfare, AIDS ... it all evens out.


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010001100100001001000101!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: Fospher]
    #5294238 - 02/13/06 12:21 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Ya, to me that word is bull's eye. I didn't think that you were one to agree with such an idea though. Did you just say that as a sarcastic joke?




What exactly have I done to convey that I would not be one to agree with such an idea? I don't question whether every statement you make is just a sarcastic joke. :wink: In fact, statements I have already made in this thread should provide ample context to suggest that I had no ulterior motive in the utterance of that word. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5294271 - 02/13/06 12:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ill give you this fireworks even I didnt read that post as sarcasm.....weird theres that feeling again.....

I cant download stuff since my computer is fuckin slow, but obviously with teh 2012 mention its end of the world stuff. Could be man. Personal opinion being that the world is about to be going through some bad times(endtimes? ehhh probrobly not some of us will survive whatever goes down).


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5298143 - 02/14/06 07:42 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Ya, to me that word is bull's eye. I didn't think that you were one to agree with such an idea though. Did you just say that as a sarcastic joke?




What exactly have I done to convey that I would not be one to agree with such an idea? I don't question whether every statement you make is just a sarcastic joke. :wink: In fact, statements I have already made in this thread should provide ample context to suggest that I had no ulterior motive in the utterance of that word. :grin:







:lol: :thumbup:


--------------------


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm [Re: exclusive58]
    #5299680 - 02/14/06 05:44 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

yea fireworks when put the lol smiley at the end of sentence it tends to come off liek your makign a sarcastic joke....


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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