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 wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
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 Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good?  [Re: Innvertigo]
#529702 - 01/24/02 12:59 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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If we ever let them go, they'll be back to the jihad ASAP.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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 Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: wingnutx]
#530013 - 01/24/02 09:36 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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how soon people forget what these people have done..or conspired to do...especially the pacifists
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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 Jinxy
Canadude
Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 18
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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 Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Innvertigo]
#530034 - 01/24/02 09:58 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I believe your television stations are calling this "The *WAR* of Terrorism"? Right?
I believe you said it yourself *WAR*, so then Taliban *PRISONERS* are unlawful whatevers, not "PRISONERS of WAR"? Oh let me guess they are detainees thus have no need for armed guards and shackles, what right does the United States have to detain these men on?
We all know that Bin Ladin, Saddam, and good ole Kadaffie are all at Camp David playing poker with George W making millions, while Robot Bush is off running the country.
Call it what you will but WAR is WAR
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"Just look in, and I will be there, waving out at you, naked wearing only a cock ring." - Mark Hunter
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Jinxy]
#530111 - 01/24/02 11:36 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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****what right does the United States have to detain these men on? ***
I'll give you a few thousand reasons dumbass
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Innvertigo]
#530122 - 01/24/02 11:53 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Like Orwell said, pacifism is objectively pro-fascist.
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Jinxy
Canadude
Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 18
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Innvertigo]
#530124 - 01/24/02 11:55 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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When in doubt insult?
If I was to imprison you for your beliefs right or wrong I would treat you like a human not a dog. Have you ever knelt on you knees for a long period of time? Have you deprived yourself of any of your senses for a long period of time? The middle ages end long ago. Remember what you take by force you must keep by force.
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"Just look in, and I will be there, waving out at you, naked wearing only a cock ring." - Mark Hunter
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Jinxy]
#530160 - 01/24/02 12:40 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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****When in doubt insult? ****
ignorance is bliss....you must be happy
****Have you ever knelt on you knees for a long period of time?***
eh?..no..where did you learn that they were on their knees for long periods of time?
****Remember what you take by force you must keep by force. ****
And we're doing that...your point is?
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Jinxy
Canadude
Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 18
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Innvertigo]
#530221 - 01/24/02 01:58 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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***ignorance is bliss....you must be happy***
Yes I am it is hard not to be when your a Canadian, but in all honesty what happened in the Terror attacks of 9/11/01 is horrible and in no way do I condone it. Yet declaring War and capturing prisoners makes these men POWs and rightly should be treated that way. If you want to change the rules of war then be prepared to defend yourself from all forms of attack be it land, sea, air, or written. It seems to me every time the United States does not get its way they blame someone else and blow them up, who put Saddam in power? Who put Kadaffie in power? Who put George W in power? Yikes I think he is the scariest of them all.
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"Just look in, and I will be there, waving out at you, naked wearing only a cock ring." - Mark Hunter
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MokshaMan
enthusiast
Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 280
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Jinxy]
#530241 - 01/24/02 02:27 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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But the al queda network is not an armed force of a nation, they do not have uniforms, and they don't openly carry their weapons. How exactly do they fall under POWs based on the Geneva Convention, since the Geneva Convention is what is used to define POWs? They are being treated fairly. Had US soliders been captured by Taliban forces, there would be no consideration of fair treatment or POW status based on the Geneva Convention.
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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Jinxy]
#530246 - 01/24/02 02:33 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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****Yet declaring War and capturing prisoners makes these men POWs and rightly should be treated that way. ***
The word WAR may have been mentioned but was never declared...to avoid splitting hairs lets agree that we did (even though we didn't)...Name me one thing that the US ddi to violate the Geneva Convention..if anything they are treated too nice.
****It seems to me every time the United States does not get its way they blame someone else and blow them up****
That's real brave coming from a person who lives in a country with dudley doo-right. Canada blows the US at every chance they get because they need our protection..and industry
****Who put George W in power? Yikes I think he is the scariest of them all. ****
apparently 80% of americans love him..but that's neither here nor there because you're a canadian ie: your opinion is useless.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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hubertd8
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 821
Loc: springfield
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Innvertigo]
#530340 - 01/24/02 04:58 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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as much as i hate to reply to these post(mainly b\c people just argue, most due to wrong info)
Anyhow i strongly believe these people should be treated fairly, why? b\c everyone is human, therefor if u differentiate the treatment of even 1 individual u are technically discriminating against them. So how can the states claim to support human rights of the people if they don't treat even one person equally? I was really surprised by the US for allowing JW to have a civil/criminal trial, i see it as a fair start, but i doubt it will be a fair trial. Especially with Aschroft's bitching. The fact that he was not informed nor recieved his Miranda Rights during most of the 40days(i think its 40) of interrigation/questioning makes any elicitation of incriminating statements useless in a civil/criminal trial. Although i believe he openly stated (according to interrogators) that he didn't want council, however this statement was apparently made quite awhile following his arrest, leaving the question of what was said and when. So i guess since this technically isn't a "war" and there are no POW, then why is the US taking all these prisoners out of their home country, the contry where they have commited there crimes and basing there convictions on a foriegn legal system? I personnally see it as a prolonged terrorist attack by the US.
"Name me one thing that the US ddi to violate the Geneva
Article #3
"(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: "
"(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (b) taking of hostages; (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. "
"The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict. "
Not all of the prisoners believed in jihad, many joined the taliban for well practical reason(to them). When u are faced with a choice of either joining or being killed / persacuted, most chose to join. I think a similar situation is occuring in the states, remember Bush saying " if your not with us u are against us " or something similar? or what about if u use/sell/manufacture drugs u are supporting terrorism? I think this is why "80% of americans love him", what rational choice dose a citizen have ? Either be outspoken, like numerous Univ. Profs and educated people against this war, which usuallyresult in persecussion by the gov't, your employer and even friends. Check how many proffs where suspended because the showed their students what the preceding events to 911 where.
Article 12
"Prisoners of war are in the hands of the enemy Power, but not of the individuals or military units who have captured them. Irrespective of the individual responsibilities that may exist, the Detaining Power is responsible for the treatment given them. "
Article 13
"Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity. "
Article 16
"Taking into consideration the provisions of the present Convention relating to rank and sex, and subject to any privileged treatment which may be accorded to them by reason of their state of health, age or professional qualifications, all prisoners of war shall be treated alike by the Detaining Power, without any adverse distinction based on race, nationality, religious belief or political opinions, or any other distinction founded on similar criteria. "
Article 17
"No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind. Prisoners of war who, owing to their physical or mental condition, are unable to state their identity, shall be handed over to the medical service. The identity of such prisoners shall be established by all possible means, subject to the provisions of the preceding paragraph. "
Article 20
"The evacuation of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely and in conditions similar to those for the forces of the Detaining Power in their changes of station. "
Article 21
"Subject to the provisions of the present Convention relative to penal and disciplinary sanctions, prisoners of war may not be held in close confinement except where necessary to safeguard their health and then only during the continuation of the circumstances which make such confinement necessary. "
Article 34
"Prisoners of war shall enjoy complete latitude in the exercise of their religious duties, including attendance at the service of their faith, on condition that they comply with the disciplinary routine prescribed by the military authorities.
Adequate premises shall be provided where religious services may be held. "
Article 38
"While respecting the individual preferences of every prisoner, the Detaining Power shall encourage the practice of intellectual, educational, and recreational pursuits, sports and games amongst prisoners, and shall take the measures necessary to ensure the exercise thereof by providing them with adequate premises and necessary equipment.
Prisoners shall have opportunities for taking physical exercise, including sports and games, and for being out of doors. Sufficient open spaces shall be provided for this purpose in all camps. "
Article 45
"Prisoners of war other than officers and prisoners of equivalent status shall be treated with the regard due to their rank and age. "
Article 70
"Immediately upon capture, or not more than one week after arrival at a camp, even if it is a transit camp, likewise in case of sickness or transfer to hospital or to another camp, every prisoner of war shall be enabled to write direct to his family, on the one hand, and to the Central Prisoners of War Agency provided for in Article 123, on the other hand, a card similar, if possible, to the model annexed to the present Convention, informing his relatives of his capture, address and state of health. The said cards shall be forwarded as rapidly as possible and may not be delayed in any manner. "
Article 71
"Prisoners of war shall be allowed to send and receive letters and cards. "
"Prisoners of war who have been without news for a long period, or who are unable to receive news from their next of kin or to give them news by the ordinary postal route, as well as those who are at a great distance from their homes, shall be permitted to send telegrams"
Article
...... goto go
I
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"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."
Bertrand Russell
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: hubertd8]
#530485 - 01/24/02 08:26 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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****Anyhow i strongly believe these people should be treated fairly, why****
criminals are treated different from free people..
**** So how can the states claim to support human rights of the people if they don't treat even one person equally? ****
They were treated within the bounds of the geneva convention..i see NO human rights violations
****The fact that he was not informed nor recieved his Miranda Rights during most of the 40days***
Miranda doesn't mean shit outside of the united states. BTW he also waived his rights to a lawyer and talked after being tolf of these rights
****however this statement was apparently made quite awhile following his arrest, leaving the question of what was said and when. ****
If you know something we don't then feel free to tell us what happened
****"Name me one thing that the US ddi to violate the Geneva ****
Where's the violation? All this shows is me you have the ability to find out information pertaining to the Geneva convention..Don't cut and paste. answer the question. What has the US done to violate their rights under the Geneva convention..i am well aware of the rules and need not be reminded...
If you don't know i understand but spare me the cut paste argument...but at least you tried to show proof
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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twiggedoubt
twigburst
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 2,387
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Innvertigo]
#541726 - 02/05/02 08:38 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Damn, patriotism, you gotta be fucking kidding me. I am proud to be from a country that enslaved black people, murdered millions of native americans, send asians to camps, killed thousands of innocent in global conflicts, and prolly killed more innocents in Afghanistan then the WTC. Ignorance is bliss if your a patriot ur fucking stupid. The taliban are fucking foot soliders, they did what they were told to much like the soliders in Vietnam, or Korea. I'd also like to wait about 30 years til all the truth comes out about this shit, cause our government would bullshit us and has many times in the past, recent, and will in the future. I'd also like to add that I did know people that died in the WTC, but I'm not so stupid that i bielieve everything i hear on TV.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: twiggedoubt]
#542514 - 02/06/02 12:52 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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****I am proud to be from a country that enslaved black people, murdered millions of native americans****
Give me an example of a country that didn't do this in their past....i'll be waiting for your enlightened answer..Case in point look up Africa and Englands history towards slaves...
****and prolly killed more innocents in Afghanistan then the WTC. ***
You have no proof so why bring it up?
****Ignorance is bliss if your a patriot ur fucking stupid****
Wow that sentance almost made sense...stay in school pal
****The taliban are fucking foot soliders, they did what they were told to much like the soliders in Vietnam, or Korea. ****
I thought they were innocents? Look in the geneva convention as to what makes a soldier.
****. I'd also like to wait about 30 years til all the truth comes out about this shit, cause our government would bullshit us and has many times in the past, recent, and will in the future. ****
Boy are you bitter..ha ha..you'll get no argument from me as to how scummy the government can be....
****I'd also like to add that I did know people that died in the WTC, but I'm not so stupid that i bielieve everything i hear on TV.***
I believe you, your not stupid...just a moron.
Have a nice day little guy 
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: twiggedoubt]
#542776 - 02/06/02 05:19 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Secular democracy good, theocratic fascism bad.
I am proud to be from a country that was able to overcome such horrible institutions as slavery. We had to fight a bloody war to do it, and it was worth it. Go throw your bags of guilt at someone else, say, the current slavers of the world.
Seriously, compare individual freedoms of anyone, citizen or otherwise, living in the USA against people living anywhere else. Where else could a black son of immigrants end up as one of the highest elected officials in the nation? According to Tony Blair, not even in our good friend England.
When you hold the history of a group of people against their current members, that is racism. This is the same thing that keeps Africa, the Balkans, and the Middle East in flames.
Lucky for you, you live in a nice western democracy so you can hurl whatever epithets you like. People like me guard you while you sleep.
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twiggedoubt
twigburst
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 2,387
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: wingnutx]
#542915 - 02/06/02 08:04 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Who cares what rights we have, more important is what rights we DONT have.
I think all governments are just as fucked up as the US, but not more so. Patriotism is stupid, no matter what country your from, cause every government is built on the same bullshit concept, of people cannot be trusted. I agree thou, and the people we should watch out for is the ones that rule us.
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twiggedoubt
twigburst
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 2,387
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: twiggedoubt]
#542926 - 02/06/02 08:17 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah 1 outta 1,000,000. Blacks are held down by struggles in the community drugs, violence, and crime in general. Lets also discuss how bullshit our drug policies are. A person gets addicted to heroine, he gets arrested and put on probation. He's addicted, so of course he will do it again, and thus get locked up for a year. Gets out gets busted again gets more time. This is a reality that happens every day. You say all the good about this country, how about how many people in prisons we have? How raciest our law system is. Assuming recent incarceration rates remain unchanged, an
estimated 1 of every 20 Americans (5%) can be expected to serve
time in prison during their lifetime. For African-American men,
the number is greater than 1 in 4 (28.5%).
What about the police problems. Cops get away with murder, selling and stealing drugs, illegal searches, generally fucking people. Or how over 80% of the stuff they confiscate is owned by someone that has never been conficated, let alone commit the crime.
America is bought and sold and its the poor guy that gets fucked by the rich, corporations that can do whatever the fuck they want cause they the Republican and the Democrate parties are on there payroll.
How the fuck is this a great country? Our country is extremely fucked up, but so is everywere else. Fuck all governments, This is why i say patriotism is bullshit, among other things.
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twiggedoubt
twigburst
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 2,387
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: twiggedoubt]
#542929 - 02/06/02 08:20 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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LOL WE FOUGHT A WAR TO STOP SLAVERY BAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!
No, we didn't fight that war for that. Abe released slaves to WIN the war, and only did so when it was convenent for him. Sorry bro, your teachers lied to you.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: twiggedoubt]
#542965 - 02/06/02 08:56 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey numbnut stay on topic or start your own pathetic thread...you can ramble there all you like but you're making no sense here
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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twiggedoubt
twigburst
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 2,387
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Taliban Prisoners...Is death too good? [Re: Innvertigo]
#543845 - 02/07/02 03:00 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Screw you, I don't gotta start a new thread to argue. I commented on someone elses comment. Don't even talk to me, I'm on a higher plane then you.
Edited by twiggedoubt (02/07/02 03:02 PM)
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