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Invisibledorkus
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Registered: 04/12/04
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Trust.
    #5276579 - 02/08/06 08:55 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Sometimes I get very paranoid. Then I tend to trust no-one. Even my best friends I might suddenly feel are mocking me. It makes me read conversations and gestures in a twisted way. How can I learn to trust others?


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5276745 - 02/08/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You must learn to trust, respect, and love yourself.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: Trust. [Re: dblaney]
    #5276750 - 02/08/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
You must learn to trust, respect, and love yourself.




Truth.
You have to trust your self in all ways possible, before you can trust anyone else. What is your fear?


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OfflinePed
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Re: Trust. [Re: dblaney]
    #5276856 - 02/08/06 10:32 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The best way to learn how to trust others is to learn how to cherish them in spite of their faults.

It's helpful to remember the kindness of others. It's through the kindness of others, most of whom you've never met, that you're able to read, write, talk, ask for help in the way you just have, clothe yourself, eat, think, all of these things. The computer you used to ask your question was brought to you by the kindness of innumerable living beings. They developed the technology, assembled the parts, and delivered the product to your place of residence. Even animals, who may have helped plow the field which produced the crops which fed the worker who assembled your motherboard, are indirectly involved in your freedom to communicate with us, in all corners of the world, right now. All the immense benefit you've received in this world has come only through the kindness of others. You would not even be able to think straight or communicate properly had it not been through the patience and kindness of those who taught you how to speak.

You might argue that those who are responsbile for your good conditions did so because they were getting paid, and that they did not have your benefit in mind. That's irrelevant. It does not matter whether or not the people who've benefitted you had the intention to do so. You have benefitted from their actions, and so from your point of view this is kindness. Another argument is that you did not receive benefit freely, but you had to pay for the items you now enjoy. But in order to pay for those items, you had to have a job, and someone had to give you the skills necessary to complete that job to the satisfaction of your employer, who derrives the money he or she uses to pay you through the same process.

Even those people of whom you feel mistrust have shown you kindness in some way. In fact, by showing you the suffering your tendencies toward paranoia and mistrust is causing you, and by impelling you to seek help on the matter, these people have indirectly catalyzed your advancment to more peaceful states. This is an even greater kindness than all those I've already mentioned.

The way to be more open and trusting of others, and the way to protect yourself from the harm they may cause you when they act upon their own delusions, is to remain constantly mindful of all the ways in which others have brought you benefit. It is also very helpful to remember that others are just like you, searching for happiness and freedom from suffering in every one of their thoughts and actions. If you can remember these points day and night, it will not be long before previously untrustworthy strangers appear to you as precious friends.

These might come across as "high-minded" ideas. They are not. They are the most practical ideas around. These ideas, if realized, relate to others more realistically, in greater accordance with the simple facts of the world. In being more realistic ideas, they bring us to calmer and more peaceful states, which are closer to our true nature than the tension and discomfort we normally live with. Our usual thinking that we are islands of self-sufficiency, able to rely on and trust only ourselves: it's this which is completely unrealistic. Such thinking is completely impractical in that it causes us all kinds of unnecessary pain and problems.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5277928 - 02/08/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Learn to trust people by degrees. Not everyone is capable of being trusted with great responsibility. Among your neighbors, which would you trust with your house key and alarm code, for example? Who do you trust with repairing your computer? If you require surgery, do you interview potential surgeons?

Trusting people always entails a risk. In counseling groups, newbies throw out slightly personal info and wait to see if another group member takes it out of the group room. It is something they could live with if it got out. It's a test. The intimacy of details increases incrementally in most cases in group counseling. One-on-one is different because as a counselor I tell them up-front what things I have to report: plans for homicide or suicide; physical or sexual abuse.

In real life, the group counseling strategy works best. One has to test people, but not with BS - with genuine info. Trust always makes one vulnerable, as does love. I cannot conceive of true love that is not based on trust.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Trust. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5277976 - 02/08/06 03:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I wear the biggest tin foil hat in these forums talk to me if you need help. I would suggest an anti-psychotic and some benzos (prescription) and going into some sort of martial arts. You won't be as paranoid talking to people if you can kick the shit out of them.
First things first I suggest you take yourself to a doctor and tell him that. Not trying to be hurtful but it sounds like mild schizophrenia, or something similar like schizoeffective. Since it is paranoia itself and not hearing voices etc, it is fairly treatable. Avoid older antipsychotics because they have some very, very nasty side effects. Two nice newer ones I can think of are seroquel and Lorazapam (sp). You might also want to check yourself out for social anxiety disorder. Are you sensitive to drugs? Do you have hallucinogen perpetuating perceptual disorder (HPPD)? Can you give us a better idea about your actual thought process?


--------------------
Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5278921 - 02/08/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Sometimes I get very paranoid. Then I tend to trust no-one. Even my best friends I might suddenly feel are mocking me. It makes me read conversations and gestures in a twisted way. How can I learn to trust others?




The most direct answer is to realize that you can trust others :tongue: 

When the conversations get twisted does each word and gesture ultimately point  to something that you're insecure about or haven't fully accepted yet?  Ultimately leading to the thought that everyone is in on something (the something can be something as simple as feelings of self worth) that you're not?  This could hold no bearing to you, I just want to compare paths.   

Realize that nothing about you is cause for mocking.  Forgo feeling embarrassed, or if that's not possible forgo the actions that lead to embarrassement.  Totally surrendered you have nothing to fear. 


Don't worry, it'll work it's way out eventually. :heart:


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Trust. [Re: Cherk]
    #5279285 - 02/08/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

With the proper combination of chemicals in the brain, it can be very difficult to trust anyone no matter what anyone says. What one must do is simply learn to neither trust nor not trust. Then build from there.
You need to learn how to trust all over again.


--------------------
Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here


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OfflineJaimie
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Re: Trust. [Re: Dmonikal]
    #5279438 - 02/08/06 09:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Drugs + re-education.

That combination kind of freaks me out.  :confused:

What do you think of these drugs, why do you trust them?

What are your experiences with them? (curiousity)

I'm as scientifically inclined as the next person, but I also think drug availability is culturally dictated. That makes me paranoid. I don't trust 'them', whoever they may be.

Do I need these drugs too?


--------------------

Sitting in the silent twilight rapture
Could it be too hard to capture
This velvet moment of serenity



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OfflineHB
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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5279632 - 02/08/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

it's always better to try your hardest and find out it didn't work out (but with the potential that it could have) than to spend all your time worrying and find yourself not being happy, anyway ...

i used to be just as paranoid of the world, and i wondered how everybody else seems so comfortable ... you just have to get up and get in the world, and once you familiarize yourself with a variety of situations, you will become more comfortable ...

it's definitely not always easy in social situations to feel comfortable, as there are always so many different people with all different demeanors going all aorund ... so a strong sense of self-confidence is key ... if you are confident and practice what you preach, people who are like you will attract to you in time, and people who create too much friction will eventually repel ...


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Trust. [Re: HB]
    #5280067 - 02/08/06 11:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Because I took them myself :p
What you will expect as the side effects are being sleepy for awhile (until you get used to them) and being ravenously hungry (which will also pass). Just eat how much you would regularly eat or you will get fat (I gained about 100 pounds on the lorazapam) then for the seroquel (similar but lesser side effects)I knew what to expect and actually lost weight. I am on seroquel (7 years) right now actually. I am curelessly Bipolar. Mood stabalizers make me too depressed to not kill myself. Actually the seroquel also acts as an antidepressent so it will cheer you up too. Luckily I was seriously underweight at the time and it actually put me at a healthy weight :laugh:
much love.


--------------------
Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Trust. [Re: Cherk]
    #5280307 - 02/09/06 01:19 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you all for the replies. You are all highly appreciated. I struggle less with this now, than I did a year ago. I have met a girl who is teaching me about trust, and giving me reason to trust and to love myself. She has opened my eyes, but I still slip and fall sometimes.

When the conversations get twisted does each word and gesture ultimately point to something that you're insecure about or haven't fully accepted yet? Ultimately leading to the thought that everyone is in on something (the something can be something as simple as feelings of self worth) that you're not?

This is exactly how it is often. Like everyone is in on some telepathic secret. Even strangers are ruthlessly wearing me down with comments relating painfully close to the content of my shadow.

I always held alot of trust for people. But this feeling that people are keeping some secret behind me, makes trust more difficult. I tend to believe everything being said is just a code for some deeper level of truth.

It only hurts when in my shadow. I can experience reality like this when light too, but then it is more like positive stuff being revealed.

Come to think of it, it's like a cycle wearing me so heavily down, destroying me to the point of being too humble. It makes me trust others more than myself down here. But still I fear that you all are in on something, and that breaks the basis of trust for me. People could convince me of anything when I've been knocked over and over, and winded up pale and weak as a leaf because there is no trust inside myself. There is not even a core. There is no me at all. It's like being erased and without some common ground to stand, a free fall. When I finally accept my self as hopeless, destroyed and braindamaged everything swithches like a mirror and I'm led upwards again, almost like given compliments and revealed good stuff.

Medications is not what I want. I took Fontex after a psychotic break one or two years ago, and it didn't feel right.

(When you people are having smalltalk, or whatever it is, in this forum I always tend to think that there is some deeper hidden meaning behind it all. To be part of this forum makes me so certain that there is this strange connection where people tap into me, because it feels like the forum is communicating directly. Like everything that happens in my life is being mirrored or discussed and maybe mocked through jokes in the forum, a day or two after they happen here.)

Sorry for rambling.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Trust. [Re: FungusMan]
    #5280365 - 02/09/06 01:35 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What is your fear?

My fear is that people are pretending to like me just to help me get better. That I am unable to give back.


(I never even bother to lock the door of my apartment when out. I never expect people to steal, and they never do. If I lose my wallett they will return it, they always do. Deep down I hold more trust than most maybe.)


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (02/09/06 02:53 AM)


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5280550 - 02/09/06 02:35 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Sometimes people will say things to me in my head, but say something very different out here. :smile: It's like I can feel what people are thinking about me, and when I am broken down they start telling me things about my self that I wasn't aware of. But in my shadow everyone is judgmental because I am.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5280565 - 02/09/06 02:44 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Sometimes people are so strange that I convince myself that it must be an act. The last weeks happenings on this forum made me think people were playing some game just to show how stupid it looked. That high spiritual people couldn't be as silly and quarrelling as this. When I realized that people are serious I got dissapointed and perplexed.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5280581 - 02/09/06 02:51 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

To end paranoia you must stop fighting people and stop protecting yourself.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Trust. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5280602 - 02/09/06 03:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I thought I did.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5280603 - 02/09/06 03:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

But you said you were worried about gestures and were forced to interpret them -- you're trying to secure yourself...


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Trust. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5280607 - 02/09/06 03:09 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It happens automatically. I don't try.

But I might try to protect myself. Mostly I get hurt or dissapointed.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5281534 - 02/09/06 12:06 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

That was kind of my point. It's maybe inescapable to a certain extent, so take it easy on yourself. Approach the problem by questioning why others are even interesting--


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5285397 - 02/10/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I only can share my perspective on that.
As my trust was misused often in the last times, I tended to loose it completely. That went hand in hand with my love, shared for others.
Then I learned and went on a decision for a project that went very good so far. I try to be as open and love-full to every new stranger I meet in advance. I show the hurtings, that they perhaps unconsciously do to me and tell them. I see at their reactions if it matters to them and how they cope. That sets the next level of trust to take cause.
I give them a bonus in advance and if they misuse it, I will treat them likely and that can continue so far, that I cancel contact to them.
That is the way, how I have learned it. The big problem are people who strategely try to misuse you. They are hard to detect, but you will feel it deep inside of your heart and stomach, what can built reason even in the mind :wink:
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/10/06 10:54 AM)


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Trust. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5285842 - 02/10/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"When the conversations get twisted does each word and gesture ultimately point to something that you're insecure about or haven't fully accepted yet? Ultimately leading to the thought that everyone is in on something (the something can be something as simple as feelings of self worth) that you're not? "

That is exactly what happened to me but somehow I have managed to get it under control and it no longer controls ME. I control it so I stamp all over it any chance I get. I would imagine you are in the later stages of this. Whatever your brain is telling you is fucking wrong. Get a job that makes you interact with people all the time.
It will suck ass for quite some time, but then you will realize that to put up with this shit at all you are very strong.


"Come to think of it, it's like a cycle wearing me so heavily down, destroying me to the point of being too humble. It makes me trust others more than myself down here. But still I fear that you all are in on something, and that breaks the basis of trust for me. People could convince me of anything when I've been knocked over and over, and winded up pale and weak as a leaf because there is no trust inside myself. There is not even a core. There is no me at all. It's like being erased and without some common ground to stand, a free fall. When I finally accept my self as hopeless, destroyed and braindamaged everything swithches like a mirror and I'm led upwards again, almost like given compliments and revealed good stuff."

Same here man for the longest time I thought I was nothing am going to do nothing and will be nothing and everyone in the whole world hates me. I thought if there is a god he must hate me so much that he is trying to kill me with pain. It is the opposite. I would imagine you are a very emotional person, like me. Remember this YOUR SUBCONCIOUS IS A PUSHY LITTLE ASSHOLE THAT WANTS YOU TO DO EXACTLY WHAT IT WANTS RIGHT NOW. It is just an instinct telling you how to survive and it ISN'T always right man. This society can be a very hard place to live, because it is based on the concept that all man wants to do is make money and he will be happy if he does. Money has no value what soever, except as a means to an end. You can go completely without it if you really wanted to. You don't HAVE to get married and have children, you don't have to feel worthless. As soon as you understand that societies concepts are not TRUTH, just ideas, you will be a much happier person


--------------------
Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Trust. [Re: Dmonikal]
    #5285888 - 02/10/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The subconscious is just saying: eat, sleep, drink, fuck, run, fight, danger. The conscious thinking mind doesn't REALLY know what the subconscious is saying at all, but it CAN guide your entire life into misery if you are too aware of it. It confuses us because we have higher thought and the old instincts that all animals have and we have difficulty understanding what it is saying, because it has not too much at all to do with the "rational".


--------------------
Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Trust. [Re: dorkus]
    #5286499 - 02/10/06 04:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Next, you might start picking up pieces of conversations and gestures and turn them into messages of being all one.  Then maybe you'll stop picking up certain words and every word and gesture ultimately  points to a message that we are all one.  Then maybe you'll finally stop twisting words and gestures at all and have complete freedom from pressures that you put on yourself and see interactions for what they really are.  Then maybe you'll gain complete social freedom and have the ability to spread smiles wherever you go and interact with people on a plane where there is nothing but love.  That's a lot of maybes though, all I know is it's what happened to me :heart: 


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


Edited by Smoker For Peace (02/10/06 04:35 PM)


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