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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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All for what?
    #5275262 - 02/07/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I was thinking something earlier about how much time, resource, energy and care people put into helping others and themselves to develop their lives and make something of themselves.

Think of what has gone into feeding you, educating you, clothing you, entertaining you, caring for your health, sheltering you for your protection.

What an enormous amount of time and energy that has been put into the making and care taking of who you are today by so many people, some, you've never met, who may be long gone and that you will never even know.

Then I thought, a simple thrust of a knife into your heart could total you. What a freaking waste I thought. How can so much care, time, energy and resource go into building us and how can it be so easy to waste us at the pull of one finger.

Why do we work so hard at building what can be dissolved so easily?

Do we play, laugh, love, appreciate and enjoy life enough to make all of the time, energy, care, resources and effort that has gone into us worth it?

:peace: :heart:





--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (02/07/06 10:40 PM)


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5275285 - 02/07/06 09:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"A living thing seeks above all to discharge its strength -- life itself is will to power; self-preservation is only one of the indirect and most frequent results.? --Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

Upon death, the energy which you had put forth in order to develop your life ceases to be relevant, so it could only be considered a "waste" in the subjective opinion of an outside observer.


Edited by itstarssaddam (02/07/06 09:53 PM)


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Invisiblespud
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Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5275298 - 02/07/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"Physical fitness y'know whatever. Whatever. Hey, you do what you like to do and I'll do what I like to do. But you're a sucker. Those fitness commercials trick ya by saying 'You're gonna live forever' or whatever but you're gonna die. Someone'll stab ya. I'm gonna stab you with a knife.

Sorry that's how it works."
-Carl



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: All for what? [Re: spud]
    #5275436 - 02/07/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What a great cartoon to capture a facet of the post spud! :lol::thumbup:

Quote:

Upon death, the energy which you had put forth in order to develop your life ceases to be relevant, so it could only be considered a "waste" in the subjective opinion of an outside observer.




Star, that's how I was looking at the "waste" aspect of it, from the outside observer, when I made the post.

If one enjoyed their life over all then, I wouldn't see it that way and in general, I don't.

What seems dumb, is how much it takes to keep a physical life surviving and thriving and what LITTLE it takes to end it.

Does that make sense?

Thats what I am working to make sense of right now, ya know, looking for the flaw in evolution that makes it so hard to sustain life and so easy to wipe it out.

I also got to thinking to myself, though I play, enjoy, laugh, love appreciate in my life more then ever, I feel that any moment I am not in one of the above is THE actual, true, and real waste of life. It can really only be wasted away while its happening.

The waste isn't when life physically ends. The waste begins to dissolve us away any time, we are not living every waking moment to the full.

Just trippen on "what goes in and what comes out" and the balance-or the equalization if you will.

Thanks for the further thoughts guys!

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5275470 - 02/07/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

well if you're asking why we do it id say its because we have nothing else to do. either we can kill ourselves or put our efforts into living ("get busy living or get busy dying" i believe someone said). i agree that it becomes a waste if you're not enjoying living but if you apreciate the entire process than it simply becomes a process.


Edited by Deviate (02/07/06 09:56 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: All for what? [Re: Deviate]
    #5275670 - 02/07/06 10:52 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, deviate, that was a part of a take off thought of the reflection. Reflect for a moment on your own lives, what goes into maintaining them every day and what comes back to you personally.

Whats the rate of exchange? Is it worth it to you? I feel like that is an important question to reflect upon. I'm not talking about offing yourself at all. I just see it as a question that can maybe pin point areas we are out of balance which isn't healthy or make some positive changes to improve quality or efFiciency that would lead to greater quality in essence.


This, which is probably a different topic all its own is that part that stopped me cold in my thinking and spawned the other thoughts-


Quote:

What seems dumb, is how much it takes to keep a physical life surviving and thriving and what LITTLE it takes to end it.



Does that make sense? Is there a major design flaw there to any of you? Thats more of what I want explore with you guys.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5275703 - 02/07/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

All for nothing! I agree.

Even if we do live to 80, contributing to the world, what does it matter? We spend more energy on the next generation, and they the next, until finally everybody dies out, either through a nuclear war or simply outliving our time, so what was the purpose of all that energy?

Well, there is no purpose, because there is no meaning. Energy goes where it goes, without a purpose or meaning, just like the universe itself. It doesn't matter how ephemeral or inevitably short-lived anything is, all energy still acts the same. As rational organisms, many find this incomprehensible, and it's even more incomprehensible that it applies in the exact same way to us.

Unless you're a Nihilist, then it makes perfect sense. :wink:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5275704 - 02/07/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Shakespeare's anwser is: have kids.


When forty winters shall besiege thy brow,
And dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field,
Thy youth's proud livery so gazed on now,
Will be a tattered weed of small worth held.
Then being asked, where all thy beauty lies,
Where all the treasure of thy lusty days,
To say within thine own deep sunken eyes,
Were an all-eating shame, and thriftless praise.
How much more praise deserved thy beauty's use,
If thou couldst answer, "This fair child of mine
Shall sum my count, and make my old excuse,"
Proving his beauty by succession thine.
This were to be new made when thou art old
,
And see thy blood warm when thou feel'st it cold.

(Emphasis added)


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5275705 - 02/07/06 11:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:

What seems dumb, is how much it takes to keep a physical life surviving and thriving and what LITTLE it takes to end it.



Does that make sense? Is there a major design flaw there to any of you? Thats more of what I want explore with you guys.

:peace: :heart:




If life was extremely difficult to end, our planet would be overcrowded very quickly.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: All for what? [Re: Ravus]
    #5275805 - 02/07/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I see that view Ravus. I am just not sure that it is all for nothing, though sometimes are efforts can feel that way:lol:.

I feel a measurable value in essence on what I put into my life and what has been put into it by others. More now then ever I do. Maybe thats what got my realizing that all the work, time, energy and care its taken to get me to this point and I could be dissolved in a second.  :crazy:

That seems like a retarded design flaw in evolution to me.

I see what starsaddam added to match a part of what you said ravus and yes, with each generation more and more time, resource, energy, work and care goes into surviving and thriving human life here.

That just points out another design flaw that we can create increase numbers and quality of life at exponential rates and THAT itself, the imbalance of living in physical and material excess, could lead to our quick and easy disolution when the scales tip.

Nice Shakespeare read here Mush! :thumbup:

I dunno, Life comes so hard and long for many and can go to quick and easy for all.

Should I ask next, is it really hard ever or is it we who make it hard on and for ourselves. Like this mom at my daughters acting classes today seem so frazzled with so much to do and I wondered, why does she have so much to do? Did she pass the equilibrium point into excess and is life now draining her causing a slow painful death? In her drive for excess, did she loose vital life force energy and quality of essence of life in the moment?

If so, I want to make sure I am living in equilibrium. I wonder if that is the key to "something" having to do with a fix for the design flaw I bolded.

I should go dig up John Nash's equilibrium theory.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5275844 - 02/07/06 11:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"And so it is that we, as men, do not exist until we do; and then it is that we play with our world of existent things, and order and disorder them, and so it shall be that Non-existence shall take us back from Existence, and that nameless Spirituality shall return to Void, like a tired child home from a very wild circus." -- The Principia Discordia

I absolutely love the last line: "like a tired child home from a very wild circus." Its easy to understand why so many people see nihilism to be a very depressing topic, but I've found Absurdism and my eventual demise to be an incredibly freeing idea. I can have my joys in confidence that all my mistakes, flaws, regrets, failures, etc are just as meaningless as everything else. Guilt and remorse hath been nullified.

Its also hard for me to get angry at anything. What can I be angry at? So things aren't going my way? Oh well! Its not like it fuckin matters. I suspect this is somewhat how the Tibetan monks who've been locked up by the Chinese see things and how they are able to remain compassion and joyful.

It don't matter... Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, and don't take crap from anybody!


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5275853 - 02/07/06 11:52 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I try to play as much as I can because I think all the time about how this is my one life and I'm blown away by how it makes no sense for humans to exist. So even though I have a ton of responsibilities I try to enjoy as much as I can. Playing doom is fun.


--------------------
Namaste


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: All for what? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5276013 - 02/08/06 12:51 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You two sound like you are definitely living la vida loca making the most of things best you can! Good attitudes you guys! I liked the stuff you shared from disconcordia Mush. To many waste away life feeling like crap thats for sure. Not me!

What about this design flaw? Is it the easy go part that is suppose to remind us to come easy at life? Is that what tied into what you guys are saying? Is that where equilibrium fits in, realizing how easy life can go so to keep balance we should keep life easy going?

I suppose the worth of work or play and what each produces is relative.

Some people live through lazy days and feel tired and bored and like they are wasting away. Some live through lazy going days and feel right at home and in sync with the "non material" good life. Like the monks perhaps.

I lost all of my trains of thought which means its time to take the dreamland express and go to bed.:lol:

Thanks again guys!

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5276154 - 02/08/06 02:01 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

So , I got into bed and a train picked me up and brought me back to here :tongue:

I think I figured out what the all for nothing, waste part is.

Look at how hard people work at building up social, muscular, academic, financial, material, egoic, familiar (family bonds) strength. To take it further, look at how many go the extra mile to even toughen and harden up their minds and hearts for mega strength and protection.

No matter how strong, tough, hard or well you build those things up, your physical body is as vulnerable as a new born babes, and so fragile, one gentle push of a blade can kill it forever.

Its the thought of how fragile the human body is compared to how hard people work at building up strong protection for it and safety nets.

If you build up what you do for that reason, its a waste and all for nothing.

Build up what you do, because you enjoy it and it adds an essence of quality to your life, then its worth it and not a waste or for nothing.

The realization of how fragile and vulnerable the physical body actually is, is a freaky thought to me.  It doesn't matter if you are the Queen of England, Bill Gates, Angelina Jolie, Mike Tyson, General Patton or a Cambodian child. A one second push of a sharp blade is all it takes to remove you from the equation of physical life here.

Life is so fragile, really, no matter what we do to strengthen and protect it. How many people waste away living the life they work so hard to protect and never even get to live it in the process? Thats the waste and the all for nothing.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: All for what? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5277492 - 02/08/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I see that view Ravus. I am just not sure that it is all for nothing, though sometimes are efforts can feel that way:lol:.

I feel a measurable value in essence on what I put into my life and what has been put into it by others. More now then ever I do. Maybe thats what got my realizing that all the work, time, energy and care its taken to get me to this point and I could be dissolved in a second.  :crazy:

That seems like a retarded design flaw in evolution to me.

I see what starsaddam added to match a part of what you said ravus and yes, with each generation more and more time, resource, energy, work and care goes into surviving and thriving human life here.

That just points out another design flaw that we can create increase numbers and quality of life at exponential rates and THAT itself, the imbalance of living in physical and material excess, could lead to our quick and easy disolution when the scales tip.





That bolded part points out the human perception versus the actual events.

Evolution has no design flaws, because evolution is a random chaotic process that only works in the present. Evolution can't predict the future, because it is just a process without consciousness, purely "natural", if you get Darwin's meaning. The selection is, of course, death, because from the chaos and mutations, the weakest will die, leaving only the strongest to take care of this meaningless world.

The reason is seems illogical to us is because we are always planning for the future, worrying about "love" and "meaning", death, war, violence, suffering, but a process without consciousness has none of these. Evolution is pure blind justice in that regard.

It is ironic that creatures created from evolution can look forward from the present and see the black waterfall ahead of us, and the fact that the boat is being carried forward at a faster and faster pace. Some people gnash their teeth and frantically scream of God beyond the waterfall; other people jump out of the boat, too overwhelmed by the meaningless suffering of the ride to enjoy anything. Then there's the rare Nihilist, who sees it coming and smiles, because he realizes that everything must come to an end.

This is, after all, a universe without foresight, a universe that is not hostile, but simply indifferent to our inevitable destruction.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: All for what? [Re: Ravus]
    #5277602 - 02/08/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Exactly, the bolded part was coming from human perspective. I was curious, why it actually isn't a flaw and what its purpose for that absolute fragility is in our physical design vs the man power that goes into maintaining it.

I got to thinking it looks retarded if you look at it linearly only.

Like you said, that was good, it also looks retarded when you see the people screaming and fighting against the current on the boat knowing whats up ahead in the far off distance instead of just enjoying the ride and smelling the flowers along the way.

I certainly do not mean to take it to any extreme that promotes laziness. Wondering where the prime balance point is between work and play or if really, they should be and were meant to be, the same thing.

I think taking a moment know and again to realize just how fragile our bodies are and how easily you can become toast, helps us to start living more in a way that we enjoy and make the most of every moment to the full best we can.

If we do that, there is no waste of life, time, energy, care or resource.  Perhaps turning our work into our play can go along way too.

Society doesn't allow much room for that because our work is to be taken seriously with great weight.

Jobs can get done just the same with people improvising some fun and laughter in.

We all face physical death and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Isn't that serious enough? Why add more seriousness to the mix while we are alive?

Like in the movie The Last Holiday. The main character who lives all conservative gets the results of a botch MRI and is given 3 weeks to live. When facing the idea, she will die a physical death, she starts taking chances and risks and living to the full. In the end, when she learns it was botched diagnosis she wonders why she waited until she knew she was going to die to start living her life.

Thanks for adding more Ravus!

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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