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GermanyMan222
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Registered: 08/06/05
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Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts?
#5274448 - 02/07/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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This topic has always fascinated me. The theories that mushrooms triggered free thought from primates is astounding. Think about, when your on shrooms, your brain is under a giant microscope, and most brain functions are under great magnification. Now think about the fact that we do most things primates do, just under a big microscope. We entertain ourselves with movies and games, we have relationships, and education; the list goes on and on. These are just my thoughts...what do you think of this topic?
Keep on Shroomin
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LBMushroom
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: GermanyMan222]
#5274700 - 02/07/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Are you trying to say that humans evolved from eating mushrooms that inspired "free thinking"? It doesn't really make any sense (if that's what you are saying) for any number of reasons... the main one being that evolution acts on populations not individuals, meaning that a population's genetics change over time but an individual's never does (cancer doesn't count because even if you get cancer you can't pass your altered DNA to offspring)... so saying that eating a mushroom changed the way a "primate" thought (genetically) and then he passed that on to his children is ridiculous. That's just not how evolution works... if you're really interested in how it happens look up "evolutionary processes". It's the general junk you learn in any bio class in college.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: LBMushroom]
#5274873 - 02/07/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Unless however, ingestion of hallucinogenic mushrooms/plants/substances offered some sort of selective advantage and/or pressure.
(Which IMO is ridiculous; I'm just playing Devil's advocate).
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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gururvishnu
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: badchad]
#5274894 - 02/07/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't think he was speaking genetically. Humans didn't really change physically during the birth of culture, they changed memetically. I believe what he's getting at is that mushrooms may have sparked the idea of creativity, releasing the human brains potential, and that mushrooms were the original inspiration for art and culture.
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LBMushroom
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: gururvishnu]
#5274964 - 02/07/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh... well, maybe. I don't like it though
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shrooma
Did you hear therumour?


Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: LBMushroom]
#5275035 - 02/07/06 08:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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If this theory interests you I really recommend you read this article/interview with Terence Mckenna: http://users.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/McKenna/Evolution/theory.html
-------------------- "[More than] half the people in federal prison are there for drug offences. We're arresting half a million people a year for possessing marijuana. We're locking up kids sometimes for life for their first drug offence. We have no room in our prisons for rapists and child molesters and murderers cause we're filling them up with these non violent drug offenders." - Steven Duke, Yale Law School on 'Hooked: Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way' -
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: shrooma]
#5275181 - 02/07/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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in fact... this was a big topic in switzerland.
the big shots... hofmann, metzner... all of the ones who know... says that the evolution of mankind is in the alteration of conciousness. this is actually a direct quote from the man himself who created lsd, synthesized lsa 20 years before he was sent morning glory seeds to be studied... the same guy to find the active ingredients in mushrooms... and also went on to discover the beloved saliva... he did all this with one other person... R. gordon wells i think.. i cant remember but can look it up if you are interested... he was actually the v.p. of jp morgan.
but one of their main theorys at the symposium was that it was a direct involvment with psychedelic drugs that evolved man into what he is today from primitive cavemen.
and dont forget people... we are very closly related to apes... but that doesnt mean we came from them... humans could have exsisted in our same body form that we are in now since the begining of time.. which is what i believe.
and yes i also do believe things evolve over time. everything does.
so i believe man was first created and then the mind has evolved... not our bodys.
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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supersapien
Sapient

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Posts: 183
Loc: US Ohio
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: agoutihead]
#5275392 - 02/07/06 09:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think humans evolved as fast as they did because these psychedelic plants were readily available to them. Look at native american cultures. Many of them had a specific plant that they would grow and regularly use, sometimes basing entire religions out of them. I have a theory that the attitudes and cultures of each native american tribe's was directly influenced by the drugs they ingested. Whether it be shrooms, weed, salvia, calea, whatever. I have yet to really get into research on that though.
I don't think we would be where we are today without drugs. You can't tell me the original humans (or apes) weren't introduced to radical new thinking that led them to create their own fire or tools. That shit doesn't just come from nowhere.
Edited by supersapien (02/07/06 09:43 PM)
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Kaleidoscope
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: supersapien]
#5275638 - 02/07/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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It is not true that evolution is purely genetic. In the case of man, something prompted him to stand up and keep doing it to the point that humans evolved to function that way. People didn't start standing because their genes said so, they stood up first because of an idea, and their genes caught up. Human beings are the first organisms to become capable of consciously evolving themselves. If you have ever come up with a creative, useful idea then you have, in fact, participated in the evolution of human kind. We are to the point that physical evolution isn't really nesscesary. Our evolution has become dependent on knowlege and information. That, my friends, is the difference between humans and animals.
So is it possible that mushrooms and other psychedelic drugs have influenced our evolution from beginning to present? I'd say it's not only possible but very probable. At the beginning, it's really hard to say what happened, but use of psychedelic compounds has existed all the way throughout the known history of man. Even in the animal kingdom there is evidence of a desire for at the very least intoxication, think cats and catnip. Desires like these could be what led to the discovery of these compounds in man. It would have happened at a very early stage in our developement. All it would have taken was one individual to accidentally eat the wrong mushroom and bam, man realized that such things were powerful and useful. Psychedelics work by creating miscommunication in the brain, allowing access to locked up parts of the brain, changing thought processes. Maybe a 'miscommunication' happened and all of a sudden, man became aware on a much higher level of consciousness. If that happened to an individual, I'm pretty damn sure he would find it important to share with others eventually.
--------------------
Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
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stemmer
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: Kaleidoscope]
#5275817 - 02/07/06 11:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just thought this might interest some of you. The things that govern cognition we know little about. We do know that it is on a cellulare level, beyond the drugs simply fitting into the synapse perfectly. Dennis Mckenna, Terence's brother(ya, the La Corecha guy who tripped for 2 weeks on caapi(maois) and shrooms), has his own research group. They are very well respected scientists and they are doing all they can to learn about the theraputic value of, and the physical nature of hallucinogens and their actions on the mind. They have indeed discovered their most stunning breakthrough yet. That is: Psychadelics change the way that DNA acts directly on cognition. In other words, anyone who ever felt that there are cognative processes that are functional, useful, and not derived from memory, that do not belong to only you that can be experienced under the influence of hallucinogens, were right(or atleast science is backing you up on that). They are experienced as entities, or just the self becoming ultra intelligent, or the selfless, self-conciouse neurology that seems to happen to some people who KNOW that this is true. I am one of those people, and I too find that there is even more too it as it pertains to evolution. Things that would take pages to explain, and are far more unbelievable than this new fact that has been brought to light.
Apparently though, LSD is the only drug they have found, where these actions of the drug are relatively easy to find. Ill have to find his site a give yall the link.
Two good books that sort of prove this without science, if you have not already proven it to yourself that is---> "True Hallucinations", and "the Cosmic Serpent".
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stemmer
Stranger


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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: stemmer]
#5276089 - 02/08/06 01:21 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Its worth reading about this subject, so I though id bump the thread...... If no one finds it to be all that interesting, it will be in the archives soon enough.
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ShroomFan
nn dmt

Registered: 03/12/04
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: stemmer]
#5279558 - 02/08/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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wow very interesting
-------------------- Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa ∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: ShroomFan]
#5280829 - 02/09/06 07:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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the cosmic serpant is by jeremy narby i believe isnt it?
if this is the right book and the right guy, he was one of the best speakers at the symposium.... his main gig is anthropology... very very interesting speaks he gave.
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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cappincrunk

Registered: 01/19/06
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: agoutihead]
#5280843 - 02/09/06 07:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
agoutihead said:
and dont forget people... we are very closly related to apes... but that doesnt mean we came from them... humans could have exsisted in our same body form that we are in now since the begining of time.. which is what i believe.
and yes i also do believe things evolve over time. everything does.
so i believe man was first created and then the mind has evolved... not our bodys.
so with time, some apes, and a lot of acid, you think we could help them evolve like us?
-------------------- To derive one's happiness from only specific moments in time is to miss out on the cosmic accident that is all of life's moments
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: cappincrunk]
#5280861 - 02/09/06 07:44 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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you have to remmeber, humans and apes, even though closely related... are as different as plants and insects the way our mind is able to work.
i said it in another thread.... apes have always been here and so have humans... since the beginging of time... yes we are closely related, but thats it.
thats why we still have apes AND man after millions of years.
this kind of goes with my idea that "pangeia" in itself was the original actual "garden of eden"... just think for a moment how many different beautiful orignal places are here on this earth... scattered.
now think of the "ultimate paradise" / "garden of eden" the world would have been when there was only one true "island" of "pangiea"... and maybe thats why no one has been able to find the true garden in certain spots... because it is just EVERYWHERE... the earth is truly a paradise.
and thats why man has been all over the world since the begining of time... its just migration with the movement of the plates of earth. and they were naturally separated... and then had to "evolve" to "adapt" to their certain surrondings... i.e. people got darker skin where it was hot to combat the heat... people learned to fish/ chop wood yada yada yada... the list just goes on to infinte.
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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giz
daydreamer


Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: agoutihead]
#5280889 - 02/09/06 08:06 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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man seperated from other animals\apes when we invented (discivered how to control it) fire and started eating meat that was heatet. mushroom had no part of this, they may have been a part in the start of religions and how some societies envolved but this starts 5-10000 years ago and not in the beginning of humans.
i know eating mushroom gives a mindblowing experience but thinking this may be a reason that we sepearated from animals is taking it way too far and over estimating the powers of this sacred fungi.
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: giz]
#5280896 - 02/09/06 08:11 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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one of the main things at the sympoisum was that the use of psychedelic plants by humans was the catalyst that first made us evolve into thinking creatures and not just dumb cavemen.
and here is my thing... did men really create fire... or just learn how to harness it... remember fire happens very often naturally... all they needed was a way to "contain" it... which is where critical thinking is required .... i.e. psychedelic drugs(plants)
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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giz
daydreamer


Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: agoutihead]
#5280908 - 02/09/06 08:19 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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yes i editet that, i ment learned how to controll it, of course man did not invent fire. fire is a universal thing, when we heated our food we changed it and this envolved our brains and it makes sense, that we hunted psycadelic plants in this time is not so likely, however in our search for food sources some may have encountered psycadelics (this is how the psycoactive properties to cannabis was discovered, when collecting the seeds for food they also got trichomes that made them high) but its unlikely that psilocybin should be responisble that our brain grew in size for example, changing diet from raw to cooked food can do that, but not a mushroom.
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: giz]
#5280938 - 02/09/06 08:34 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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there are more than just mushrooms as far as psychoactive plants... there are hundreds through out the world... each section of humans migrated, adapted and evolved with its surrondings.
and im not saying every single caveman ate psychedelics... but the "special ones" the original great thinkers had to to create and wonder.
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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giz
daydreamer


Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
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Re: Mushrooms and Human Evolution...Your thoughts? [Re: agoutihead]
#5280962 - 02/09/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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yes i am fully aware of that, i said mushroom only because the topic said "mushrooms and human evolution".
i dont doubt that someone for a couple of houndred thousand years ago knew about some special plants with special powersm, the native australians has used the pituri bushes for well over 60000 years. but this is not enough to envolve a specie like homo sapiens, that some ate entheogens is not enough that a entire race envolves, there has to be other factors., our enviroments can envolve us, this is why some homo sapiens are black and some are white. what kind of food thats availble plays a huge part as well, you can see diffrence in people from diffrent parts of the world, you can see diffrence in size , nordic people are often larger in size and people from lets say china is much smaller, this is no bigger mystery than the polar bear is larger than a brown bear. enviroment and food. Also what kind of enemies you have in nature plays a part in evolution, Humans are weak but smart, hence we made up weapons to defend ourself, but we are a paranoid species because deep deep down we are a haunted specie.
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