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Offlineonetime
onetime
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Learyfan]
    #5270194 - 02/06/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I find that if i lay down and listen to something loud like pantera's live 101 cd at full volume with headphones on i can reach some trance like moments in my life. the music is so loud that it downs out the thoughts in my head. so my brain can breath some freash air.


--------------------

See?
Yes, with my own three eyes.
Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want


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InvisibleaNeway2sayHooray
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Learyfan]
    #5270284 - 02/06/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I have a problem sitting indian style or in the lotus position.My feet always fall asleep.Is there anyway to train your body parts not to fall asleep?Am I sitting improperly?.Or could it be my posture or what I am sitting on?

Can anyone help with my horrible blood circulation in my legs and feet while meditating.

Maybe I need to meditate on blood circulation in my lower body.Maybe I shouldnt focus on my feet falling asleep while meditating.But it is very hard to concentrate while your toes are freezing and your l;egs and feet are tingling.

Any ideas?


--------------------
Mad_Larkin said:  Death is just a thang.
:clementine:
MrJellineck said:  Profits, prophets. That's all you jews think about.
sheekle said: life is drugs... and music... and cat... :snowman:


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Offlinebobjones
...
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Learyfan]
    #5270464 - 02/06/06 05:33 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

Shroomism said:
meditation is ALL about focus.

It takes focus to concentrate on nothing.




Exactly!






ah yes, thats what i was trying to say  :thumbup:


--------------------
"Outside of a dog a book is a man's friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read"
-Groucho Marx


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5270550 - 02/06/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
meditation is ALL about focus.

It takes focus to concentrate on nothing. But no one can concetrate on nothing, and if you can... congratulations.. you're a zen master.




maybe it just comes easily to me but I have no problem clearing my mind, I sit a
few moments and I'm blank, for me it;s like a state of deep sleep in which I can
feel, hear, smell and see but the senses dont feel like they're mine, when I
return I feel euphoric, there is no concentration or focus involved


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Offlineantoverlord
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: aNeway2sayHooray]
    #5270557 - 02/06/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Get a zafu and some support cushions. You can buy them here. Possibly over-priced? It's a family business and they supply a Zen center near where I live. There's a number of lotus positions outside the full lotus, find one that works for you.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: bobjones] * 1
    #5270561 - 02/06/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It should also be noted that meditation, being an act of inner concentration, can be practiced virtually anytime, anywhere.. as it is really only a focused state of mind. We have many states of mind, that we go through every day. These are generally categorized as brainwaves.. from the delta vibrations of deep sleep to the visual theta between sleep and consciousness.. to the beta of external stimuli and logic.. to the alpha waves of relaxation, day dreaming and self introspection. Deep states of meditation are a combination of alpha waves and theta waves.. and learning to control your states of mind can never hurt.


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5270578 - 02/06/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
It should also be noted that meditation,  can be practiced virtually anytime, anywhere..




I agree, just dont try it while operating power tools or machinery  :smirk:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5270589 - 02/06/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I thought that was a given :grin:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack]
    #5270607 - 02/06/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I find that group meditation works better than individual meditation, as you feed off the collective energy of the group, helping you reach a deeper state of consciousness.


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Offlinemediman0078
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5270626 - 02/06/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

aNeway2sayHooray, try a meditation bench... they prop your weight up off your legs... kinda like a kneeling postion. They are tilted slightly foward to help you keep your back straight. Some soto schools keep these around in case you don't want to use a traditional mat.


--------------------
........someday I'll find it.


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Offlinemediman0078
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5270637 - 02/06/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
I find that group meditation works better than individual meditation, as you feed off the collective energy of the group, helping you reach a deeper state of consciousness.




I agree... I tend to commit more to the experience when others as dedicated to it are near. :thumbup:


--------------------
........someday I'll find it.


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InvisibleaNeway2sayHooray
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: mediman0078]
    #5270650 - 02/06/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the suggestions.


--------------------
Mad_Larkin said:  Death is just a thang.
:clementine:
MrJellineck said:  Profits, prophets. That's all you jews think about.
sheekle said: life is drugs... and music... and cat... :snowman:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5270659 - 02/06/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I thought that was a given :grin:




I only speak from experience


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OfflinePed
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack]
    #5270677 - 02/06/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

>> What is supposed to happen when you meditate?

>> I have a problem sitting indian style or in the lotus position.My feet always fall asleep.Is there anyway to train your body parts not to fall asleep

It's difficult for things to happen in meditation when you are looking for or expecting things to happen. Just keep doing it. Eventually the mind will open, and eventually you will find a comfortable posture.

I didn't try sitting full lotus right away. I started with my left leg infront of my right. When that became comfortable, I moved my left leg in to the half lotus position. After about a year, I was able to sit in the full lotus position without difficulty in my legs. It took another year to sort out all the problems with my pelvis and back. It's perfectly normal for meditation to be both physically and mentally uncomfortable in the beginning.

A lot of the physical discomfort has to do with the pelvis. The way the pelvis is situated can affect how much of your body's weight sits on the legs, and how much sits on the spine. What you're aiming for is a balance between these. All of your weight should be centred straight down in to your coushin, as though you had extended a root in to the ground. If your pelvis is rolled too far back, your back will arch outward and you'll slump over, putting all your weight on your knees and ankles. If your pelvis is rolled too far forward, your back will arch inward, and you'll have to keep a tense back to fight the tendency to fall backward.

Another great tip is on finding your centre of gravity. Once you've found a good posture, gently tip your body forward, then backward, then forward again, slowly reducing the length of these movements until the body settles on it's own centre of gravity. This can also be done side to side. It feels almost as though a pivot exists in your chest, and as you move you can feel this pivot taking on different loads in different proportions. It's a neat feeling once you find it, and it can be a great guide to finding the best posture.

Just try to sit comfortably. When you move to find a posture, don't think about it too much. Don't pressure yourself. Allow your body to find a comfortable position. If you force anything with meditation, physically or mentally, you will definitely run in to problems. It might even be helpful to use a chair in the beginning. What matters is finding a position that best allows you to concentrate and clear your mind of it's usual clutter. As you succeed with this, your posture will become more and more refined, more natural, and more conducive to your practise of meditation.

Above all, don't expect great results right away, either with your body or your mind. Meditation is about creating causes, not experiencing effects. The more patience you can develop toward your meditation practise now, the more benefit you will experience in the future.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


Edited by Ped (02/06/06 06:13 PM)


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5270687 - 02/06/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The quick answer is no. Meditation is not for real.
It's entirely psychosomatic.
People apparently involved in "deep meditation"
are only doing so in their minds.


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OfflinePed
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5270704 - 02/06/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

>> People apparently involved in "deep meditation" are only doing so in their minds.

Sounds like every other aspect of our waking experience.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack]
    #5270711 - 02/06/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the best definition of meditation that I have heard was : it is the opposite of concentration.

The first part to it, that I have found, is to stop analyzing everything.... we have done it for so long, because it was an integral part of infancy and being a 4 year old... but we need to break that first....
also, Carlos was basically talking about the same thing when he wrote "stopping internal dialogue".


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OfflineEarthDroid
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5271453 - 02/06/06 09:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You have to meditate every day for months before you reach any higher states of consiousness. To reach a state such as dyana where you loose your ego could take years. Aleister Crowleys book 4 or 8 limbs of yoga is a good manual for the undertaking.


Edited by NemoLotus (02/06/06 09:35 PM)


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Ped]
    #5271567 - 02/06/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
>> What is supposed to happen when you meditate?

>> I have a problem sitting indian style or in the lotus position.My feet always fall asleep.Is there anyway to train your body parts not to fall asleep

It's difficult for things to happen in meditation when you are looking for or expecting things to happen.  Just keep doing it.  Eventually the mind will open, and eventually you will find a comfortable posture.

I didn't try sitting full lotus right away.  I started with my left leg infront of my right.  When that became comfortable, I moved my left leg in to the half lotus position.  After about a year, I was able to sit in the full lotus position without difficulty in my legs.  It took another year to sort out all the problems with my pelvis and back.  It's perfectly normal for meditation to be both physically and mentally uncomfortable in the beginning.

A lot of the physical discomfort has to do with the pelvis.  The way the pelvis is situated can affect how much of your body's weight sits on the legs, and how much sits on the spine.  What you're aiming for is a balance between these.  All of your weight should be centred straight down in to your coushin, as though you had extended a root in to the ground.  If your pelvis is rolled too far back, your back will arch outward and you'll slump over, putting all your weight on your knees and ankles.  If your pelvis is rolled too far forward, your back will arch inward, and you'll have to keep a tense back to fight the tendency to fall backward.

Another great tip is on finding your centre of gravity.  Once you've found a good posture, gently tip your body forward, then backward, then forward again, slowly reducing the length of these movements until the body settles on it's own centre of gravity.  This can also be done side to side.  It feels almost as though a pivot exists in your chest, and as you move you can feel this pivot taking on different loads in different proportions.  It's a neat feeling once you find it, and it can be a great guide to finding the best posture.

Just try to sit comfortably.  When you move to find a posture, don't think about it too much.  Don't pressure yourself.  Allow your body to find a comfortable position.  If you force anything with meditation, physically or mentally, you will definitely run in to problems.  It might even be helpful to use a chair in the beginning.  What matters is finding a position that best allows you to concentrate and clear your mind of it's usual clutter.  As you succeed with this, your posture will become more and more refined, more natural, and more conducive to your practise of meditation.

Above all, don't expect great results right away, either with your body or your mind.  Meditation is about creating causes, not experiencing effects.  The more patience you can develop toward your meditation practise now, the more benefit you will experience in the future.




with the sitting thing, i know a lady who doesnt bother with the legs crossed shit. she sits in a lazy-boy or even laying down and meditates. techincally meditation is a mental activity, so how your body is positioned should be to important (as long as you dont cut off circulation or something bad for your back etc...)
so why does everyone do it with the legs crossed? im not sure. lol. but i have the feeling its because, it was started in asia, where everyone sits like that! they dont have rocking chairs... they basically just sat down and did their mental excercises.
so why do westerners sit like that as well? because they learned it from asians or from asian pictures and so they sat the way the asians did, thinking it had something to do with posture...

meditate in a position you can feel comfortable in for long periods of time is my thoughts.  :thumbup:


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: eligal]
    #5272264 - 02/07/06 03:06 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
Quote:

Ped said:
>> What is supposed to happen when you meditate?

>> I have a problem sitting indian style or in the lotus position.My feet always fall asleep.Is there anyway to train your body parts not to fall asleep

It's difficult for things to happen in meditation when you are looking for or expecting things to happen.  Just keep doing it.  Eventually the mind will open, and eventually you will find a comfortable posture.

I didn't try sitting full lotus right away.  I started with my left leg infront of my right.  When that became comfortable, I moved my left leg in to the half lotus position.  After about a year, I was able to sit in the full lotus position without difficulty in my legs.  It took another year to sort out all the problems with my pelvis and back.  It's perfectly normal for meditation to be both physically and mentally uncomfortable in the beginning.

A lot of the physical discomfort has to do with the pelvis.  The way the pelvis is situated can affect how much of your body's weight sits on the legs, and how much sits on the spine.  What you're aiming for is a balance between these.  All of your weight should be centred straight down in to your coushin, as though you had extended a root in to the ground.  If your pelvis is rolled too far back, your back will arch outward and you'll slump over, putting all your weight on your knees and ankles.  If your pelvis is rolled too far forward, your back will arch inward, and you'll have to keep a tense back to fight the tendency to fall backward.

Another great tip is on finding your centre of gravity.  Once you've found a good posture, gently tip your body forward, then backward, then forward again, slowly reducing the length of these movements until the body settles on it's own centre of gravity.  This can also be done side to side.  It feels almost as though a pivot exists in your chest, and as you move you can feel this pivot taking on different loads in different proportions.  It's a neat feeling once you find it, and it can be a great guide to finding the best posture.

Just try to sit comfortably.  When you move to find a posture, don't think about it too much.  Don't pressure yourself.  Allow your body to find a comfortable position.  If you force anything with meditation, physically or mentally, you will definitely run in to problems.  It might even be helpful to use a chair in the beginning.  What matters is finding a position that best allows you to concentrate and clear your mind of it's usual clutter.  As you succeed with this, your posture will become more and more refined, more natural, and more conducive to your practise of meditation.

Above all, don't expect great results right away, either with your body or your mind.  Meditation is about creating causes, not experiencing effects.  The more patience you can develop toward your meditation practise now, the more benefit you will experience in the future.




with the sitting thing, i know a lady who doesnt bother with the legs crossed shit. she sits in a lazy-boy or even laying down and meditates. techincally meditation is a mental activity, so how your body is positioned should be to important (as long as you dont cut off circulation or something bad for your back etc...)
so why does everyone do it with the legs crossed? im not sure. lol. but i have the feeling its because, it was started in asia, where everyone sits like that! they dont have rocking chairs... they basically just sat down and did their mental excercises.
so why do westerners sit like that as well? because they learned it from asians or from asian pictures and so they sat the way the asians did, thinking it had something to do with posture...

meditate in a position you can feel comfortable in for long periods of time is my thoughts.  :thumbup:



There is something to the idea of a perfect balance. You can explore the concept of balance deeply - to an infinite extent. This balance will help you acheive a greater sense of power to fight against gravity + energize yourself for an extreme sense of relaxation. I find that opening up my chakras is all about this balance. And it's a very tangible effect.

I was meditating 2 days ago and my dog distracted me by barking at a mongoose. It sucked because I had to get up and help her back up onto the ledge we were on because she was choking herself after jumping off. So I sit back down and I'm bummed out because I lost the balance I was working for for about a half hour. So I just sat in a meditative position, not worrying so much about a perfect balance and just relaxing while shifting sand through my hand and hearing the waves crash and seeing the nature around me. After about 45 minutes, it felt like something turned back on and I felt the energy to seek a balance again. So I'm doing that for a short while when all of the sudden I feel a deep connection within myself.. one of those moments where you just shoot into an extreme awareness and you're able to look out at everything all at once and see it all and feel it all without any thought - just perfect perception. This is the state I always strive for. But in this case something happened that never happened to me before. I started to breath very deeply and I felt a rush of energy all throughout my body. I was kindof swaying left and right and just breathing, while experiencing a euphoric state. I was thinking about thoughts of self realization like.. this is what life is. I'm so glad to finally feel like this again. etc etc. I just felt like I was kindof turned off after being lazy for a while. But this experience turned me back on all the way. For a minute or so, I was experiencing this awesome moment, feeling my whole body come alive and being amazed by it all.

It was really cool. It's actually the same exact feeling that I had when I was on shrooms experiencing a perfect euphoria because I thought I was in a goo of reality having sex with everyone. It's like breathing when you are feeling so happy that you could laugh or cry or scream or anything.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


Edited by hobbitcg (02/07/06 03:14 AM)


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