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Jackattack
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Is meditation for real? 1
#5269030 - 02/06/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Whenever I try to mediatate nothing happens I don't reach no higher level of consciousness but I do reach a higher level of boredom. What is supposed to happen when you meditate?
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mediman0078
Stilllooking.....

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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack]
#5269061 - 02/06/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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nothing.... literally. It's just to calm your mind so you think a bit clearer.... you probably won't get any weird "highs".... it helps one to learn intense focus when practiced properly. ....it also takes a lot of patience. Just go 15 minutes max at a time when you start out. It's hard to go much longer than that without losing focus completely. The mind does tend to wander.... meditation is the leash, kinda.
-------------------- ........someday I'll find it.
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WhiskeyClone
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack] 1
#5269093 - 02/06/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nothing is supposed to happen to you.
Ok... In most people's heads, at any given time there are dozens of thoughts flying around for no real good reason; they tend to just clutter your mind. When you sit and focus on gently letting go of every thought that pops up in your head, after not too long, they won't pop up as often and your mind will be less focused on your thoughts and more on what is around you. When you learn to meditate, you learn that there is a level of awareness beyond and between these thoughts, where the mind is clear and relaxed. It helps to clear out the cobwebs by increasing and cultivating awareness in this way.
There are good resources on the web for meditation techniques. It isn't really something that can be understood until you get the hang of it. There are many forms of meditation, and they all take practice.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: mediman0078]
#5269129 - 02/06/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mediman0078 said: it helps one to learn intense focus when practiced properly. The mind does tend to wander....
the whole point in meditation is to not focus, it's to completely clear the mind, if it required concentration then you're mind is not clear, at the point that you reach the clarity of mind, you will feel something, it sometimes helps to let your mind wander to achieve your goal to not conciously think a single thought.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack] 1
#5269131 - 02/06/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Concentrate on the part of your brain that is sending "boredom" signals to you. Endure it and don't get swept away. Stay focused on the task at hand. Continue enduring these signals each time your brain sends these habit energy boredom signals to you. Eventually these habit energies will lose much of their control and you will gain greater control over your brain, which will make you feel good.
I need to start mediating more, myself. I've really gotten out of the habit lately.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Learyfan]
#5269146 - 02/06/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mediman0078 said: without losing focus
Quote:
CyberChump said: When you sit and focus mind is clear and relaxed.
Quote:
Learyfan said: Concentrate Stay focused
how will your mind be clear if you are concentrating on remaining focused?
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mediman0078
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5269193 - 02/06/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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There are focusing meditations done in renzai zen schools... the concentration is on 1 single object which is to fill the entire mind. Many times this is just a candle flame, but it can be just about anything.
I always felt more focused afterward....
-------------------- ........someday I'll find it.
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bobjones
...


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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5269213 - 02/06/06 12:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
mediman0078 said: it helps one to learn intense focus when practiced properly. The mind does tend to wander....
the whole point in meditation is to not focus, it's to completely clear the mind, if it required concentration then you're mind is not clear, at the point that you reach the clarity of mind, you will feel something, it sometimes helps to let your mind wander to achieve your goal to not conciously think a single thought.
meditation is about intense focus. eventually through practice you might achieve the same level without focusing, but if you tell someone that is new to meditation to not focus, they will probably never get anything out of it. ive been meditating for about 3 months now, and i still have to intensly focus to keep my mind from wondering. but the longer i meditate, the less i focus and the more i enjoy the state im in. but i could never reach this stage without focusing.
-------------------- "Outside of a dog a book is a man's friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx
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mediman0078
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: bobjones]
#5269222 - 02/06/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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It is a bit of a paradox... you must concentrate on not concentrating, release and relax.... eventually it doesn't take that concentration, your mind just knows it's time to shut up and does so.
-------------------- ........someday I'll find it.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: bobjones]
#5269243 - 02/06/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bobjones said: meditation is about intense focus.
I guess this is why most that meditate have not felt anything...
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: mediman0078]
#5269252 - 02/06/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mediman0078 said: you must concentrate on not concentrating, release and relax....
release is right, relax is also right, you cant do that if you're trying to concentrate
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koppie
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack]
#5269365 - 02/06/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jackattack said: Whenever I try to mediatate nothing happens I don't reach no higher level of consciousness but I do reach a higher level of boredom. What is supposed to happen when you meditate?
Whenever I try to ride a bike, nothing happens I don't get around faster, I just fall on my face.
Like riding a bike, meditation is a skill you have to learn, and to succeed you have to put in a lot of work. The best thing to focus on is your breath. Either the air entering and leaving your nostrils, or the rising and falling of your stomach. Don't fight ideas, just let them go. Boredom is just an idea like all the others.
It may take a couple of months, it may take a year of regular practice before any real changes in your mind take place. Only when your thoughts have settled down, you begin "real" meditation and you can get into different states of mind. The first time this happens you will think "what's that?" or "finally something is happening!" and it's gone but after that happens a couple of times, you'll manage to stay in that consciousness longer and longer.
What it is like? I can only speak for my own experience:
I practice zazen (soto zen) in which the concentration is on your posture and on your outbreath. Zazen is practiced with eyes open. While concentrating on my breath, I start to get green and purple clouds in my vision, these get more and more intense with every long and slow outbreath. After 10-30minutes, depending on how calm my mind was when going in, slowly the clouds pull away and my vision gets very clear. The room seems very bright and I feel completely happy. I believe this corresponds to the first Jhana, and is the lowest "higher" state of consciousness, still in the body but filled with joy and highly focused. This is also where my knowledge ends as I have been meditating for less than two years, and this is the deepest I have managed to go in.
Wikipedia has some information on the deeper states that are supposed to exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhana
Instructions for zazen in the soto tradition: http://www.sotozen-net.or.jp/kokusai/howtodozazen01.htm
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Cowgold
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack]
#5269393 - 02/06/06 01:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I copied this from another site and thought I'd post it here.
Meditation is one of those techniques that you will probably use all of your natural life. In fact, you've probably meditated without even realizing it! Meditation is the art of concentration.
Concentrate on one thing, and let everything else fall away. Breathing, sitting, standing, walking; an issue, an idea, an image ... you can meditate on anything.
~Here is a basic method~
Sit or lie down in a relaxed position. Begin breathing naturally. You'll probably find your chest rising and falling. Instead, try to shift this to your stomach. Let your stomach rise and fall; this is how you used to breath when you were very young. It is very natural.
Focus on the breathing. The sensation of in and out. When you exhale, feel the breath dissolve, and notice how your immediate instinct afterwards is to inhale. Do not force your breath. Relax. Smile.
Be aware of your breath. Thoughts will rise up in your mind. Do not push them down, just let them float by. They are thoughts, that is all. Regard them as a bubble on a swiftly-flowing river. Let them go. Return to your breathing.
Don't do anything else. Just let go. Just for a moment.
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lukeboots
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Jackattack]
#5269465 - 02/06/06 01:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jackattack said: I don't reach no higher level of consciousness
my son, before you can fully appreciate the higher levels of consciousness, you must first pass the fourth grade.
--------------------
funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
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Mezcal
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: mediman0078]
#5269530 - 02/06/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mediman0078 said: nothing.... literally. It's just to calm your mind so you think a bit clearer.... you probably won't get any weird "highs"....
I've experienced profoundly altered states of consciousness after 3-4 hours of formal zazen... not quite as common as losing feeling in my ankles and feet, but definitely it has happened. open-eyed visual hallucinations, synaesthesia, you name it.... in japanese it's called "makyo" or "maikyo".
soto zen buddhism
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TheDude
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: lukeboots]
#5269539 - 02/06/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonnywax said:
Quote:
Jackattack said: I don't reach no higher level of consciousness
my son, before you can fully appreciate the higher levels of consciousness, you must first pass the fourth grade.
but yo check it, he be wantin mad enlightenment dawg. yo ain't nobody need no schoolin for that anyhow.
-------------------- "this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger
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eligal
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5269570 - 02/06/06 01:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
mediman0078 said: you must concentrate on not concentrating, release and relax....
release is right, relax is also right, you cant do that if you're trying to concentrate
you have to concentrate on realeasing and relaxing. its hard to understand until you do it, although i dont think relaxing would be the right word.
its mainly concentrating on controlling random thoughts, thus learning to quiet those random thoughts when you need to concentrate.
although medicating is taught in different ways. one way is to concentrate hard to get rid of or silence these random thoughts. another is to actually let your mind wander and then for each thought you concentrate on it and eventually your mind can work out any issues it has with the given thought. you then push it asside and move on to the next, unil you have worked out all your major and minor dilemmas in your mind, and then have less mental distractions. another is to concentrate on one thing and quiet all other random thoughts. this thing youre concentrating on can be anything from an object (an image of it in your mind) or what i was told, and really like, a blue light starting at your tail bone, and going up your spine as you breath in, the light reching the back of your head where your spine ends and then your third eye opening and the blue light beaming out. then ypou begin to breath out in which you invision the third eye closing and the blue light travelling down your spine.
now, this is what ive heard, i could be well wrong since i dont actually read up on this stuff... (i got all this info from my dad back when he would do it...). the few times i actually tried, i did the blue light one, and by the third attempt, i could feel a tingling on my forhead where i had invisioned the third eye. but that was freakin years ago.
so, the main thing is to get rid of subsidairy thoughts, no matter the method.
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
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Cubenisseur
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: eligal]
#5269643 - 02/06/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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No loss no gain. If you lose your thoughts, you gain wisdom, but achieving tranquility is not so easy, as it takes a strong will to depart from our postnatal acquired notions.
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Shroomism
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#5269802 - 02/06/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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meditation is ALL about focus.
It takes focus to concentrate on nothing. But no one can concetrate on nothing, and if you can... congratulations.. you're a zen master.
moreso to me, meditation is more about training your mind to quiet down, and just passively observing the flow that is. The very simple act of meditation is a lesson in concentration. The basic thought behind it is, that if you control your thoughts, you control your actions.. and thus.. everything about your life that is within your control. meditation is simply a tool that gives you a chance anytime, to learn how to better control your thoughts. It's a bit of a paradox, meditation is... in that you are concentrating on releasing, but not.. good for mental discipline.
What has always helped for me in maintaining this focus, is to set my mind on one thing. Many times I have attempted to just "let go" and go into "nothingness".... but that has almost always resulted in my mind wandering out of control, subconscious thoughts going all over the place. My default protocol is to concentrate on my breathing. Breathing is something very real, a part of our daily existance.. and something we are not very often consciously aware of. Most people breathe too shallow, or off-rhythm, we learn to breathe this unnatural way at birth, by the harsh way we enter the world. Meditation is a good time to focus on your breathing, and control it. Let your breathing be your whole existance, focus on nothing but that. In, out pause. Very deep, steady, slow, and natural. Into the depths of your lungs.. so that your stomach is expanding more than your chest. Take your time, you're not in any rush. The cycle of breath is enough to focus on to keep you occupied for an eternity, if you are determined.
Someone mentioned a candle flame. This too is amazing and works wonders. As with the breathing.. (you should always be aware of your breathing... this is an essential part of meditation) .. meditation on the candle flame is similar. Observe the flame, be the flame. Watch it flicker, and let it consume your entire thought process. Nothing but the flame, and your breathing.
Everyone will have natural thoughts, cycling through their heads. This is a natural part of being a human. You will not be able to completely control all your thoughts overnight. The key here, is that when these thoughts come... to not personally engage in them and take them off into different directions... you are only the detached, passive observer. Observe this cycle of thoughts passing through your head as though you are watching clouds in the sky passing by. Nothing to do with you, really. Just associations of the ego..
Boredom is a defense mechanism of the ego. If you want to go anywhere with it, you need to take it more seriously. Or less seriously.. whichever seems more apt. In my experience, boredom leads to destruction. And it's kind of hard to be bored, when the universe is inside your head, and you are in control. So that's something to shoot for. Not being bored, when there is nothing, or close to nothing. I'm satisfied that I could keep myself entertained for a billion years if need be.. but I need human interaction from time to time.
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Learyfan
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Re: Is meditation for real? [Re: Shroomism]
#5270134 - 02/06/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: meditation is ALL about focus.
It takes focus to concentrate on nothing.
Exactly!
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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