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Hengman
Small timeGrower


Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 250
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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A Tip about PF Cakes!
#5268905 - 02/06/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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hello everybody.
right now, im in the process of fruiting 2 PF cakes. they were prepared the same way and have the same strain (mexican). they were both dunked prior to fruiting/right after birthing.
the only difference between the two cakes is the way i inoculated them. for one cake, i inoculated the traditional way of squirting spores on 4 sides of the jar OUTSIDE THE CAKE AND AGAINST THE GLASS. (with holes on the outside of the lid)
the 2nd jar i inoculated directly in the middle of the substrate (center of lid)
i wish i had pics to back this up but...
turns out the 2nd jar (inoculated the center) has a SIGNIFICANT increase in the pinset. there are pinheads on all sides of the cake, while the other cake has a few sad pins scattered about and NOT NEARLY as many as the other cake
in analysis of the situation... the mycelium of the 2nd jar (center inoculation) grew outwards towards the glass. therefore, simulating nature and the mycelium prolifically fruited because it reached the outside of the substrate.
while the other jar (4 inoculation spots) the mycelium grew inwards toward the center of the substrate. the mycelium got confused as to which way to fruit, therefore leading to a sad pinset. (cannot fruit in the center of substrate)
in conclusion... now on, i will inoculation pf jars (if i ever do anymore) in the center of the jar. once i get ahold of my friends camera, i will post the pics of the difference. Trust me, there is a significant difference.
i hope this will help anyone who is thinking about doing PF cakes. the 1 site inoculation in the center does take a little longer than the 4 sites, but it is well worth it. it only takes prolly another 1 week longer at the most.
once again... in the near future, i will post pics of the cakes. thank you for taking the time to read my post.
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The beautiful Cambodian Psilocybin Cubensis. Feel the colors. See the sound. My Personal Setup
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OJK
Stranger

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 10,629
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: Hengman]
#5268914 - 02/06/06 10:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've heard about people inoculating into the center of the substrate. While it is more efficient in terms of getting the most out of radial growth, it can be unreliable and frustrating, as contaminations introduced by the needle or the spore solution will be undetected until they reach the side of the glass - significantly longer than if you inoculated beside the glass.
Furthermore, it is potentially dangerous, as a contamination could lie undetected in the middle of an otherwise healthy cake, releasing chemicals that could be absorbed by, and accumulate in, the fruit bodies - a potential health hazard.
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Hengman
Small timeGrower


Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 250
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: OJK]
#5268926 - 02/06/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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yea... thats the bad side of it all. but the chance of that happening to a person with proper sterilizing techniques are very very slim.
i would rate myself as OK/FAIR in the sterile process and i havent had ANY case of contams in the jar. i have with casings, but with jars... no contam problems at all.
anyway... thanks for the potential danger heads-up because no one wants to get hurt.
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The beautiful Cambodian Psilocybin Cubensis. Feel the colors. See the sound. My Personal Setup
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reignman
Stranger

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 145
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: Hengman]
#5269092 - 02/06/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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so then why not meet in the middle then? insted of inoculating the center or the side of the glass, inoculate about 1\4in from the edge (verticaly, not at an angle) and a 1\4 from the center? thats what i was planning on doing
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: Hengman]
#5269186 - 02/06/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've gotten bad pinning and good pinning from cakes in the past. I don't think it has much to do with where you inoculate because the jars won't fruit until they have fully colonized the substrate anyway. I would focus more on proper humidity and FAE to get the best pinning.
I can see why you probably got the results though. The jar inoculated in the center was fully colonized by the time the myc made it to the glass. The jars inoculated on the outer edges fully colonized the outside of the jar, but may not have been completely colonized on the inside. This is why you frequently hear people say to wait a few more days or even a week after the jars appear colonized completely before birthing.
The jar that was inoculated in the middle was actually fully colonized and ready to fruit, whereas the other jars weren't and therefore didn't fruit as nicely.
Make sense?
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Quick WBS Prep
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Nunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat


Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 3,534
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: FooMan]
#5269390 - 02/06/06 01:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Um, if you used a multi-spore solution then there is no way to rule out genetic variation.
Just because they came from the same spore print or syringe doesn't mean they are identical. Most likely the second jar just had a substrain in it that fruited better...
Or FooManShroom may be right about the inside not colonizing on the first jar.
Quote:
in analysis of the situation... the mycelium of the 2nd jar (center inoculation) grew outwards towards the glass. therefore, simulating nature and the mycelium prolifically fruited because it reached the outside of the substrate.
while the other jar (4 inoculation spots) the mycelium grew inwards toward the center of the substrate. the mycelium got confused as to which way to fruit, therefore leading to a sad pinset. (cannot fruit in the center of substrate)
I can guarantee you that it doesn't work like this. The fungus will pin where there is light, air, and moisture. It has nothing at all to do with the direction of mycelial growth.
But as for innocing with one hole... That's what I do... But I use LC and it will begin colonizing much faster than multi-spore, so I don't have any problem with the "extra time"
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"This day is a lover..." ~Rumi
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
Nunbuh_Chrubble said: Just because they came from the same spore print or syringe doesn't mean they are identical. Most likely the second jar just had a substrain in it that fruited better...
Well, when you're talking about multispore, it would be substrain(s), not just a single substrain. Otherwise, you'd be talking about clones or isolated myc on agar plates. I've never had that much of a variation from cake to cake from the same spore syringe or print, although I wouldn't rule out that possibility. Given the facts he stated, I think my explanation is more feasible.
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Quick WBS Prep
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djalexr
Uncle Pr0


Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 80
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: FooMan]
#5269462 - 02/06/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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you should try doing it with more jars - an identifiable difference between two jars is by no means proof, or anything to base further experiments on because there's almost always great differences in colonization times etc in jars that have been prepared in exactly the same way
-------------------- "The world around me drops away - replaced by worlds bieng created and destroyed by my imagination"
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: djalexr]
#5269503 - 02/06/06 01:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
djalexr said: there's almost always great differences in colonization times etc in jars that have been prepared in exactly the same way
Really?
I've never noticed GREAT differences in jars prepared the same exact way with the same spores, but maybe I've just eaten too many damn mushrooms!
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Quick WBS Prep
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BigPete1999
GardenerExtraordinaire

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 99
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: djalexr]
#5269523 - 02/06/06 01:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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when I did cakes, I always did the four around the sides and one in the center. Thats just how I did it cause I noticed that the bottom middle of the jar was always lagging behind, so I figured to just do it in the center also. it helped with more even growth of the myc. I'm not sure about the pinset, but I do know that shrooms grew on the top, which they didnt with the first time I ever grew them.
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Hengman
Small timeGrower


Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 250
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: BigPete1999]
#5279621 - 02/08/06 10:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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you guys make alot of sense. maybe the direction of the growth of mycelium has something to do with the pinset, maybe not. but the complete colonization of the cake is probably what's affecting this most.
i, for one, will inoculate the center from now on because of the complete colonization of the substrate. i dont mind waiting a little longer. maybe some more experimenting and compareing would bring me to a more valid conclusion.
heres a pic that caused me to believe.
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The beautiful Cambodian Psilocybin Cubensis. Feel the colors. See the sound. My Personal Setup
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: Hengman]
#5279751 - 02/08/06 10:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Did you inoculate all three with the same strain? The mushrooms on the 4 site cake look alot fatter than the 1 site.
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Quick WBS Prep
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mrwacko15
Stranger
Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 9
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: FooMan]
#5279881 - 02/08/06 10:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Did you inoculate all three with the same strain? The mushrooms on the 4 site cake look alot fatter than the 1 site.
Not to mention the fact that one picture proves absolutely nothing.
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Hengman
Small timeGrower


Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 250
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: mrwacko15]
#5279932 - 02/08/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mrwacko15 said:
Quote:
Did you inoculate all three with the same strain? The mushrooms on the 4 site cake look alot fatter than the 1 site.
Not to mention the fact that one picture proves absolutely nothing.
yes i did use the same strain. mexican
yea ok mrwackoff, did u read the entire post? i said this
Quote:
Hengman said: maybe the direction of the growth of mycelium has something to do with the pinset, maybe not. but the complete colonization of the cake is probably what's affecting this most.
gimme a break. i was a lil excited to see this difference and had to tell the whole freakin world...ok?
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The beautiful Cambodian Psilocybin Cubensis. Feel the colors. See the sound. My Personal Setup
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ChronicStiffy
Pothead

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 49
Last seen: 17 years, 15 days
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Re: A Tip about PF Cakes! [Re: Hengman]
#5280121 - 02/09/06 12:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well I think its pretty interesting. Maybe with more experiments, you can confirm this theory
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