|
SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5272359 - 02/07/06 05:52 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
See: epidermis
Fact: The skin is a living organ covered with pores breathing air and with nerve-ends relaying information. It isn't so much a barrier as it is a bridge.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: Ravus]
#5272904 - 02/07/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
We didn't get here by respecting each other
How we got 'here' is irrelevant to our current social behavior. The nations which act with the same brutality employed by the Roman empire are less-than-first-world while the most powerful country in the world, the USA, is(was) based on the principle that "all men are created equal".
People who help others for nothing probably will not be around long
Populations evolve, not individuals. A population which is altruistic has a much better probability of perpetuating itself than a population which fights against itself. (See: Africa)
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
|
Fact: The skin is a living organ covered with pores breathing air and with nerve-ends relaying information.
The air you breathe is not you.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5272959 - 02/07/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: The air you breathe is not you.
And what is you?
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: fireworks_god]
#5272984 - 02/07/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I am a specific arrangement of chemicals.
Chemicals --> Organelles --> Cells --> Tissues --> Organs --> Organ Systems --> Bipedal Primate
Edited by MushmanTheManic (02/07/06 11:21 AM)
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5272998 - 02/07/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: I am a specific arrangement of chemicals.
Chemicals --> Organelles --> Cells --> Tissues --> Organs --> Organ Systems --> Bipedal Primate
So why does air not fit into this scheme? 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: fireworks_god]
#5273031 - 02/07/06 11:30 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Air is a mixture of gases which is not part of my chemical arrangement and, for the most part, is external to it.
|
SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5273056 - 02/07/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I notice you didn't include H20 in your list. We're all mostly water inside, y'know. Without it, we'd no longer be alive. Same goes with air, and most, if not all, the things you have listed. Oxygen, like water, is most definitely a part of who we are.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
|
SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5273089 - 02/07/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
The entire world is your body. Just as you wouldn't survive if your heart were subtracted, you wouldn't survive if all forms of plant-life were subtracted. You would be affected by the subtraction of all the water in your body just as much as you would had all the water in the world been subtracted. The human organism and its own environment are mutually arising - and are interconnected.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5273097 - 02/07/06 11:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Air is a mixture of gases which is not part of my chemical arrangement and, for the most part, is external to it.
Incorrect. Air is an arrangement of chemicals that interacts as an aspect of your chemical arrangement. If it were not part of your chemical arrangement, "your" chemical arrangement would not be complete - no "you".
This abstract assignment of what is a facet of oneself and what is not can inevitably be reduced down to the level of energy, or atoms.... This energy produced by the Sun is part of me, this energy produced by the Sun is not... 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
|
Air != Oxygen
Same goes with air, and most, if not all, the things you have listed.
The list should be read as such:
An arrangement of chemicals (which includes H20) compose an arrangement of organelles which compose an arrangement of cells which compose an arrangement of tissues which compose an arrangement of organs which compose an arrangement of organ systems which compose a bipedal primate.
Anything which is not part of this arrangement is not 'you'. Oxygen, undoubtedly, is included in part of our being, but the oxygen external to this arrangement is only used for cellular respiration and the production of ADP. This process converts oxygen to CO2 which is then expelled from our body.
|
SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5273441 - 02/07/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Air != Oxygen
Yes, I realize this.
Anything which is not part of this arrangement is not 'you'.
Why? What is the reason for the line that you have drawn?
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
|
Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5274057 - 02/07/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: We didn't get here by respecting each other
How we got 'here' is irrelevant to our current social behavior. The nations which act with the same brutality employed by the Roman empire are less-than-first-world while the most powerful country in the world, the USA, is(was) based on the principle that "all men are created equal".
Oh, but I completely disagree. How we got "here" is a major factor in determining who or what we are, what works and what doesn't, and what we can expect from the future. To say our genetics play a massive role is an understatement, since we basically are the environment acted upon the genetics we are supplied with. And what is the getting "here" other than the evolution of our genetics? It is my belief that all mental states of mind are predisposed in genetics, whether that be altruism, greed, anger or respectful empathy, since the genetics do, after all, lay down the framework for our working brain. Therefore, our social behavior would be at least strongly correlated, if not directly correlated, to how we got "here". Even cultures eventually boil down to our genetic predispositions.
I don't think your view of the US is entirely correct. The US and Roman Empire are both entirely ruthless military powers. We may give more freedom to our citizens nowadays, but in our foreign affairs, we are still largely following the imperialistic path of the Roman Empire in trying to take over or at least affect to our advantage the weaker countries all around the world. At first we explained this under the guise of the Manifest Destiny or the Cold War, and now we justify it using the War on Terror, but in the end, it's the same attitude as the Romans had in conquering areas millenia ago.
Quote:
People who help others for nothing probably will not be around long
Populations evolve, not individuals. A population which is altruistic has a much better probability of perpetuating itself than a population which fights against itself. (See: Africa)
If you want to get into an evolutionary debate, Richard Dawkins addressed these points in his book, "The Selfish Gene." Dawkins says that trying to look at evolution with the units of selection being the individual ultimately breaks down; in all actuality, the units of selection are individual genes, with the individual organism just being a byproduct of the evolution of the genes. If this is true, and a certain gene will predisposess an organism to be either selfish or altruistic, then let's take your example and say the entire population is altruistic. Then say one individual in the population develops the selfish gene. The selfish individual will work to further himself, including his reproduction, while the altruists will help him out, effectively giving more and more power to the selfish gene at the sacrifice of the altruistic gene, as the selfish organism would probably eat more and reproduce more, letting the next generation have a higher percentage of selfish organisms. Taken to its logical end, an altruistic population would easily be overrun by selfish organisms.
Your flaw in thinking seems to be that if a population isn't altruistic, it must be fighting itself. In all actuality, I think what we have is a self-serving cooperation, a cooperation of humanity and other animals among mutual selfishness, but that still works nonetheless.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene-centered_view_of_evolution
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: Ravus]
#5274383 - 02/07/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
our social behavior would be at least strongly correlated, if not directly correlated, to how we got "here"
Our niche has been changing far too fast for Darwinism to keep up. Humans have an amazing ability to alter there environment for their benefit. Certian brutal or selfish (read: egotistical, sociopathic) characteristics may no longer be needed at all; these are traits from a harsher environment which no longer exists.
Your flaw in thinking seems to be that if a population isn't altruistic, it must be fighting itself. In all actuality, I think what we have is a self-serving cooperation...
Altruism may be the incorrect word for me to use. I think its unhealthy to put others before yourself and especially frown on maryterdom, but I fail to see why helping others along the way is a bad thing. For yourself or for the species as a whole.
Taken to its logical end, an altruistic population would easily be overrun by selfish organisms.
Then such populations shouldn't exist!
|
Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5274454 - 02/07/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
That is why I believe we inevitably evolve "self-serving selfishness". I never hesitate to help others when it helps me, and in doing so, we help society. The philosophy of self-serving selfishness is central to capitalism, because we realize that when companies help themselves by making profits, they also help their employees, and their employees' families, and the economy as a whole. I don't think anyone's going to claim that big fat-cat corporations are altrustic in any way, yet nevertheless our system is running smoothly.
Therefore, the ideas of respect and helping others are relatively useless in my opinion, because you help others by helping yourself. By helping yourself survive in the easiest and most efficient way possible, you often help those around you, like in a capitalistic society. If you go around helping others without having it help you, you won't survive at all; the reason we see people surviving who also help others is because it almost always helps them in some way also, even if it's not always immediately obvious to us how.
Give respect only when you profit from it. Give to others only when it helps you. Help the happiness of others only when it helps the happiness of yourself. This is how the life has survived, and to do otherwise, while slated with good intentions, seems doomed to failure.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
|
Dmonikal
Bareback up inthis neden


Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 474
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: Ravus]
#5274504 - 02/07/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Life is one, we are divided.
-------------------- Give your money or your life Take 'em both for all I care Dump your bullets right here
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: Ravus]
#5274553 - 02/07/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
you help others by helping yourself.
Isn't the converse also true, as long as others are willing to return the favor? Take vampire bats, for example. Vampire bats will ensure the survival of their community by sharing his food with any bats who, for whatever reason, didn't get any food. If a vampire bat doesn't share his food, the other bats will not share their food with that bat. Isn't this a case of the "Selfish gene" being selected against?
If you go around helping others without having it help you, you won't survive at all
I completely agree with this.
|
Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: dorkus]
#5275125 - 02/07/06 08:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dr_mandelbrot said: What does Bell's theorem teach? Is it valid here?
I've always had trouble interperating physics. I'll have to read further into it at a time when I have more energy to give you a reply that's worthy of posting.
What do you think about Bell's theorem?
--------------------
I have considered such matters. SIKE
|
rfus80
Stranger
Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 10
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
|
Re: Realize one thing and you will be happy [Re: Cherk]
#5275859 - 02/07/06 11:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
There is no such thing as seperate things or events. We are the apples of the apple tree..
|
|