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OfflineMisterMyco
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What exactly is it about casing?
    #5239149 - 01/29/06 04:27 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'm wondering why the application of a casing layer seems to be so beneficial to fruiting. I put this in Advanced Mycology because I'd like to really get some discussion going rather than a posting of the reasons that Stamets gives in "The Mushroom Cultivator". I'll start off with some observations and then some possibly conclusions. Feel free to comment and critique!


It's a given in the community that casing provides much better results. I think that the biggest benefit is, really, a perfect or near perfect pin set. Those beautiful pics that we see thick with mushroom cap canopy are the result of proper casing technique. I also notice that dunking and rolling a PF cake in casing material provides more weight per flush and a better pinset.

I wonder if this really is due to microorganisms (or whatever) in the casing layer that stimulate fruiting or if it's the physical properties themselves of the casing layer that does it. I could see how a casing layer, even a very thin one like the PF cakes, keeps the microclimate centimeters above the mycelia much more moist.

Perhaps the extra surface area made by having such a rough, pourous layer on the top allows more mycelia to form and somehow that effects pinning.

I'm not sure what makes casings so much better. I somehow doubt that it gives them a moisture reserve to utilize to fruit better, one tenth of an inch over four inches of properly hydrated substrate wouldn't make that big of a difference. So I'm really at a loss as to why casings do so much more better than fruiting directly from the mycelial surface.

I'm hoping to better isolate what about casings make them so sucessful and seeing if I can improve upon it.

Just for the record, I think that the best casing mix is equal parts of coco coir (soaked in water for two days to hydrate, then rinsed) and vermiculite. Mix in some crushed oyster shell and some garden charcoal and you are ready to go. I put mine in a pillowcase and dunk it into 160+ degree water for about five minutes. Most of this stuff is already pretty clean biologically. A tenth through an eight of an inch of casing layer always seems to give fantastic results.


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"I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural."
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Offlineblackout
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5239174 - 01/29/06 04:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I always wondered to. I figured it may be the fact that there is no nutrition in it. That the myc is zooming through it looking for nutes, it then figures it may die and so fruits as a survival mechanism. I know sclerotia is said to for as a survival mechanism in times of "hardship" hot/cold, no moisture etc.
I have heard people saying that they can get faster growth on agar with a low sugar %. I know in TMC it says sclerotia grew best on 4.5% malt agar, and I think fruits grew best on 0.4% or 0.5% malt agar.

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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5239219 - 01/29/06 04:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

what did Stamets say? a water reservoir, a space to expand and become filamentous, darkness, somewhere for helper microbes to dwell.....

some species absoluely must have a casing layer on top of the mycelium mass - these probably need the microbe helpers. others can't suffer anything on top of them; many species will fruit either way


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buh

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OfflineMisterMyco
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: shirley knott]
    #5239222 - 01/29/06 04:59 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I think that the mycelia expansion is the key really. It isn't growing in a "trapped" environment anymore. When something is totally colonized, the mycelia might shift into a different mode, then when it is able to grow again, it's in the "expand quickly" mode.


--------------------
"I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural."
Isaac Asimov

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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5239701 - 01/29/06 07:04 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The benefits are specific to the species, strain, environment, and cultivator.

I think stamets list is pretty good.

Wall to wall flushes are not entirely dependent on the casing layer. It is but one factor that leads to success.

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OfflineDocPsilocybin
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5240301 - 01/29/06 09:35 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's part of the fungis behavior. My theory is as follows:

The spore germinate, the mycelium grows.

Haploid filaments of oposite mating types join up and create dikaryotic mycelium that can now produce fruiting bodies.

As the fungi digests the nutrients it senses depletion in its food supply.

As a response it now wants to produce fruiting bodies at the extremities (Eg: expanding Pixie Rings) of it's mycelium network.

It's at this point that you provide it with a casing layer.

The casing layer provides the correct pH, moisture content, and the mycelium tears into it.

Since the casing layer is even and all the mycelium starts growing into it at the same time it produces an even density of mycellium.

Now your casing layer is pretty much the "outer edge" of a pixie ring and the mycelium begins producing fruiting bodies. This is because the mushroom is growing "away" from it's nutrient source to ensure its spores are spread onto fertile ground.

Repeated casing layers mimick this.

Just my thoughts anyway, sorry if I ramble on.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington

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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #5241327 - 01/30/06 07:37 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

yes yes. im also sorry you ramble on.

hahaha hmmm
just kiddin

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Offlinekiss
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5250298 - 02/01/06 07:58 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think your looking at it the wrong way...or maybe just one sided.
EONTAN ..IMO said it best.
In the case of P. cubes, a casing layer isn't needed, but it helps.
As you say one of the best casing mix's consist's of coir, and verm. I agree on this when it comes to P.cubes. So I think in this case the physical properties is what counts.
Others like A. Muscaria(sp?) need the micro action that lays with them.
Mushrooms will fruit when the conditions are right. Their still might be food for the mycelium to go through yet, but given the right conditions the'll still fruit.
I feel this can be related to cannabis. Other factors being takin into account, you can switch the lighting cycle (regardless of age), and still cause the plant to revert to the fruiting cycle.
So...show the mushrooms the way, and off they go!


--------------------
see dick drink
see dick drive
see dick die
don't be a dick!

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Offlinehappyhead
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: kiss]
    #5252091 - 02/01/06 05:34 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i believe that once you break the cake apart or crumble it that all the surface area of the cake is greater in size there for giving you a bigger,wider, and evener area to fruit
saying the middle of a cake doesnt get the light or fruit as much as a casing would

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5257295 - 02/02/06 09:28 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Simply put it's the optimal microclimate for primordia formation.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: What exactly is it about casing? [Re: hyphae]
    #5258557 - 02/03/06 09:16 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i just like the more surface area and retained water provided by a casing.

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