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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
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"healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right"
#5256665 - 02/02/06 07:15 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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i've heard this a few times. for believers:
if you do not have healthcare, who is violating your rights? if you do not have a job, who is violating your rights? if you do not have a home, who is violating your rights?
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5256875 - 02/02/06 08:06 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Collectivist-think. Certain things have arisen because of technology and they think it is necessary for all people to have access to these things - even if it means making other people foot the bill for it.
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JesusChrist
Son Of God
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5257139 - 02/02/06 08:57 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: i've heard this a few times. for believers:
if you do not have healthcare, who is violating your rights? if you do not have a job, who is violating your rights? if you do not have a home, who is violating your rights?
Thank you.
-------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: JesusChrist]
#5258187 - 02/03/06 02:48 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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> if you do not have a job, who is violating your rights?
You are. Now give me a television, bitch, so I can watch Springer and Oprah.
(sarcasm for the humor impaired)
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5258771 - 02/03/06 10:50 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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no takers? is annapurna1 right? have the right wing crazies really taken over?
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5259303 - 02/03/06 01:27 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
if you do not have healthcare, who is violating your rights?
If you do not have healthcare, then...? Too bad? Darwinism is dated.
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daimyo
Monticello
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5259328 - 02/03/06 01:33 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: no takers? is annapurna1 right? have the right wing crazies really taken over?
I think more accurately, the utopian idealists have given up arguing. The bong is more important.
--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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wilshire
free radical
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Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: bukkake]
#5260101 - 02/03/06 05:28 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you do not have healthcare, then...? Too bad? Darwinism is dated.
if you want to address the question, the thread's still open.
is healthcare, or a job, or a home, or education a "basic human right"?
if you lack one of these, who is responsible for violating your rights?
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5260148 - 02/03/06 05:49 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Define "basic human right" first.
Are these rights that are inalienable in nature, like Natural Law? Or are they "rights" that have been agreed upon by some constitutional body?
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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wilshire
free radical
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: trendal]
#5260228 - 02/03/06 06:18 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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i've heard it referred to as an inalienable right.
and what other kind of right can there be, anyway? if it's not inalienable, it's not a right. it's something else... a privilege, entitlement, desert, or idulgence maybe... but not a right.
while i believe in inalienable rights, i'm going to split some of the other libertarians here and say that i'm not sure that one can prove they exist. what i will say is that if rights exist, they are inalienable, and that anything that is not inalienable should not be called a right.
does anyone here believe that healthcare or employment is an inalienable right?
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5260236 - 02/03/06 06:22 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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does anyone here believe that healthcare or employment is an inalienable right?
I don't.
That isn't to say they aren't "good things"....but certainly not inalienable rights.
In fact I would say there is only one "basic human right" and that is the right to live and live freely. All else stems from that single right.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: trendal]
#5260248 - 02/03/06 06:26 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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On the other hand I do think there are "rights" which are not basic or inalienable - those of citizens' rights. These are the "rights" that are agreed upon in a constitution or law of some sort. They are not human rights - because they do not apply to all humans - but they are rights to the citizens of a country because within that country's framework they can not be taken away.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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wilshire
free radical
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Posts: 2,421
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: trendal]
#5260256 - 02/03/06 06:30 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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i wouldn't call those 'rights' though. you're either talking about a law that recognizes a pre-existing right, or one which establishes some legal protection above and beyond real rights - one which almost always requires the violation of real, inalienable rights to enforce.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5260266 - 02/03/06 06:34 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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In my experience they are still referred to as "rights" because, as I said, they can not be taken away within a country which recognizes them in its law.
Say, the "right" to legal representation, or to a fair trial, for example.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Loc: The Barricades
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5262553 - 02/04/06 01:15 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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They're not "basic human rights," but they are necessary for surviving in a modern society, and compassion dictates that we should ensure, through whatever means necessary, that they are readily accessible to anyone who needs them.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Posts: 15,608
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: Silversoul]
#5262717 - 02/04/06 01:54 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: They're not "basic human rights," but they are necessary for surviving in a modern society, and compassion dictates that we should ensure, through whatever means necessary, that they are readily accessible to anyone who needs them.
Oh my God. What happened to my fellow heartless libertarian? Paradigm? Is that really you?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5262751 - 02/04/06 02:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Quote:
Paradigm said: They're not "basic human rights," but they are necessary for surviving in a modern society, and compassion dictates that we should ensure, through whatever means necessary, that they are readily accessible to anyone who needs them.
Oh my God. What happened to my fellow heartless libertarian? Paradigm? Is that really you?
Note that I did not say that they should necessarily be provided by the government(nor am I saying they shouldn't). Many people have made the argument that a free market would provide these things most effectively. I happen to disagree, but nonetheless, the above statement is not necessarily in conflict with libertarianism.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: Silversoul]
#5262774 - 02/04/06 02:17 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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TRAITOR!!!
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
#5267059 - 02/05/06 06:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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the notion that neither of those is a basic human right has a direct corollary ..a person should not be allowed to live if the state cannot use him/her...for example..if your sick..and your labour value cannot cover the cost of medical treatment..then why should you be allowed to live??...why not simply euthanize your ass and harvest whatever spare parts.. and/or sell you off as bars of soap??...if thats not naziism..then i dont know what is...in either case..if we are not to tolerate it..then at the very least healthcare has to be a right..and if we have to find economic justification for the cost of that healthcare..then so does a job...
-------------------- "anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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wilshire
free radical
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Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: Annapurna1]
#5267459 - 02/05/06 08:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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the notion that neither of those is a basic human right has a direct corollary ..a person should not be allowed to live if the state cannot use him/her
how are the chances of you explaining this leap of logic? or of answering the question posed in the title post of the thread?
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