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Offlineshamanamba
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The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not?
    #5255368 - 02/02/06 01:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

A great number of people I know are still hung on the idea that marijuana is bad because it is a "Gateway drug." I traced this statement back to a man by the name of Harry Aslinger, who was appointed the president and founder of the agency now known as the DEA by one Andrew Mellon. Aslinger made the statement of pot being a gateway drug after recanting that it was responsible for violent and psycotic behavior. Andrew Mellon was, at the time, director of the National Treasury, and owner of the Mellon Bank; the bank which funded the two citadels of the beginning of the war on drugs: the DuPont Chemical corporation and Hirst News Media.
Just wanted to throw that out there and see if anyone agrees, disagrees or has any ?'s or !'s . :stoned: :sun: :stoned:


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The Shaman

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: shamanamba]
    #5255411 - 02/02/06 01:45 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think its a gateway drug in this regard:

Pot is illegal
Kid trys pot, relizes its not so bad
Conclusion: All illegal drugs arnt so bad.

Its pot's legal status that makes it a gateway drug. People who sell one illegal drug often sell another, and the buyers get exposed to that. If pot was in the supermarket next to the booze, it wouldnt get associated with crack, heroin, and speed.

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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: DieCommie]
    #5255432 - 02/02/06 01:49 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'd say that MDMA was my gateway drug.

After going out to a club, and seeing people from all walks of life, from sketched-out ravers, to lawyers and doctors, to accoutants and kids in University dropping E, having a great time, and still doing something positive with their life (Yes, there were the etards and trainwrecks also), and then doing E myself, it was "Oh, well - I enjoyed it, I'm still OK, and there are all of these other people around me who do E regularly and they arnt cracked out in the allyways giving head for their next hit" kind of thing, then maybe the conceptions I had on other drugs arnt all that correct either.

I didnt start to smoke weed regularly untill about a year or two of doing E and shrooms on a regular baises.

Drugs in order of me trying them, was actually

Meth->MDMA->Shrooms->Ketamine and then long after that, weed.

go figure

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OfflineWeeded420
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: kaniz]
    #5255463 - 02/02/06 02:00 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

hmmmm...

i was curious what else was out there

the better the weed my friends/dealers had the harder the drugs i was around.

im not sayin that pot IS a gateway drug, but it CAN be a gateway to other drugs

order of drugs
weed-->alcohol-->xanax(scripst)-->mushrooms-->coke(twice)-->acid

would never buy white and only do it on certain occasions(when i dont plan on sleepin), and i would never do any other drugs.

however, I still smoke daily and drink often

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: Weeded420]
    #5255483 - 02/02/06 02:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I suppose LSD is what got me into drugs. Started taking it weekly beging of freshman year in highshcool. A few months later I was a drop out, using crack and meth as often as I could. Only after quitting that stuff did I turn to daily pot use.

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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: Weeded420]
    #5255490 - 02/02/06 02:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think, generally speaking : The first positive drug expierence you have, is you're 'gatway' drug.

The first time I did meth, it was by accident (Thought I was doing Ket), and ended up being strung out for 2 days. Mind you, once the initial strungout spaz part wore off, I kinda liked it - but not enough to get me into 'using drugs regularly'.

It was about 6 months after that, that I tried MDMA and was all *WOW! that is what I was missing?!", which then lead me into regular use of MDMA and more exploration with other substanes.

Now, for alot of people - pot is usualy their first exposure to an illegal drug. Its probably one of the most common, and the easiest to get a hold of.

I dont think its an "OMG, that high was so good, I want a better high now!" type of gateway, but more of a "wow, that was good - maybe other drugs arnt so bad either".

When they say its a gateway drug, its often said in a manner of "Oh, it gives them a taste of being high, then they move onto other drugs just to increase that high"

Edited by kaniz (02/02/06 02:05 PM)

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Offlineshamanamba
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: kaniz]
    #5255520 - 02/02/06 02:13 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

methamphetamines are indeed addictive and may very well lead to other drugs. MDMA and particuar is likely to cause users to seek out other forms of euphoria. I was referring to pot though, I simply belive the people lead themselves to other drugs, pot dosent lead them there. even if i quit smoking pot, i would most likely still occasionally do X, or snort a line when its offered.


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The Shaman

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Offlineleery11
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: DieCommie]
    #5255555 - 02/02/06 02:21 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Its pot's legal status that makes it a gateway drug. People who sell one illegal drug often sell another, and the buyers get exposed to that. If pot was in the supermarket next to the booze, it wouldnt get associated with crack, heroin, and speed.



Yeah, but we can not legitimify the term "gateway" when we are arguing with anti-drug people, well, discussing with them.... we say intelligent things like this, but we use a different term.

for example I would say "no it's not really a gateway at all... HOWEVER...." then i'd say something like that.

I'd also say that it is not really a gateway anymore than alcohol and tobacco are, becasue most people try cigs and beer before they try pot. I would then further say that it entirely depends upon the person's intent. You do not get into marijuana, generally, and find youself forced to get a stronger better drug.... just as many people use pot AND heroin and those drugs .... and ignore psychedelis entirely.

But some people use pot then go, yes, well now I want to do LSD! But that isn't the pot's fault, the pot is kind of like ..... a fisher-price version of the big boy hallucinagens, its something to introduce you to the underground of drugs, and something to eventually prepare you to move on to hallucinagens. Or other illicts, but pot doesn't have much in common with the "hard" drugs, I'd say pot is more of a psychedelic and the only "gateway" it can possibly open is toward using the more intense psychedelics somewhere down the line.

It's like this.......
Kid: You know, shrooms acid and weed sound neat... but I'd be scared to do shrooms or acid right now, I'll try weed first.
several months later
Kid: Okay well now I'm more confident and have had a taste of the psychedelic experience, and I'd like to try some LSD.

It's a stepping stone really, not a gateway, because it does not lead to anything at all, you have the ultimate choice and potheads are just as likely to have a disdain for hallucinagens as they are a passion for them. They are just as likely to use many illicit drugs as they are to ONLY use pot as their illicit drug of choice.

it's just a bucnh of deceitful manipulation of statistics...... 70% of the nation has done pot at least, so of course most people that do harder drugs tried pot first.

Most people that learned to walk learned to crawl first.......

most violent criminals have h20 in their systems.

what's the point?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: leery11]
    #5255625 - 02/02/06 02:39 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

If you asked me, If someone has smoked weed are they more likely to try "harder" drugs compaired to someone who never smoked pot?
I'd say, Hell yes they are. But it's not because of what the pot does to you. It's because of that indivudials mind set. Someone who NEVER smokes pot is either not a very curious person. Someone who is VERY happy with getting "high on life" and can't fathom drug use. Or they are a weak and simple minded fool who eats up all the anti-drug scare tacktics.

So another good question is, Is some body who snowboards more likely to try base-jumping then someone who never tries and extreme sport?


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Offlineismokeweed
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: musher_420]
    #5255637 - 02/02/06 02:44 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i think its considered the gateway drug because generally its by far the easiest to get, which means its most likely (obviously not all the time) going to be the first thing someone tries. my first drug was almost ecstacy but the deal didn't work out and it ended up being weed after all. but it didn't lead me into other things, i had already decided to try whatever sounded worth whatever harm it may cause.

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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: ismokeweed]
    #5255644 - 02/02/06 02:46 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i think its all propaganda. just stay away from powders and opiates and you prolly wont become a junkie


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: musher_420]
    #5255700 - 02/02/06 02:59 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

musher_420 said:
If you asked me, If someone has smoked weed are they more likely to try "harder" drugs compaired to someone who never smoked pot?
I'd say, Hell yes they are. But it's not because of what the pot does to you. It's because of that indivudials mind set. Someone who NEVER smokes pot is either not a very curious person. Someone who is VERY happy with getting "high on life" and can't fathom drug use. Or they are a weak and simple minded fool who eats up all the anti-drug scare tacktics.

So another good question is, Is some body who snowboards more likely to try base-jumping then someone who never tries and extreme sport?


Good point. I believe that ^ most of all.

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OfflineWillieTomg
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: DieCommie]
    #5255755 - 02/02/06 03:12 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I think its a gateway drug in this regard:

Pot is illegal
Kid trys pot, relizes its not so bad
Conclusion: All illegal drugs arnt so bad.

Its pot's legal status that makes it a gateway drug.  People who sell one illegal drug often sell another, and the buyers get exposed to that.  If pot was in the supermarket next to the booze, it wouldnt get associated with crack, heroin, and speed.




^^^

Quoted for truth. :thumbup:  I was a militant sXe kid until I went through some hard shit and realized that maybe I should experience a bit more of life before writing it off completely.  I smoked a joint, and loved the hell out of it.  A few months later a friend brought 1.5g of mushrooms over to my place... yadda yadda yadda... and now I grow mushrooms, trip acid, and love it all.

And I've never tried coke/speed/meth (seen too many people burn out on them for my comfort) although I have dabbled in opiates.  I had to swear those off though, since it was too easy for me to just rail a percocet and forget about all my problems for a bit. 

So weed might be a gateway drug in the sense that it usually provides a solid positive experience upon which one can base a healthy regimen of controlled substance use.  It isn't a gateway drug in the sense that if you smoke pot, you'll want to shoot heroin after a while in order to get a stronger high.


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Battles of wits are impossible with the unarmed.

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OfflineKaleidoscope
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: WillieTomg]
    #5255833 - 02/02/06 03:31 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Information was my "gateway drug." I was a straight edge hardcore kid when I was younger I looked into what drugs did because I wanted to know everything there was to know so I could be a anti-drug fact spitting machine. I found out that a lot of the things I was reading about were actually not that bad and also that some were worse than I thought. I was interested in weed and psychedelics for a long time before I actually smoked weed, which was my first drug experience. Since then I've basicly been experimenting with the compounds that interest me.

The reasoning behind weed as a gateway drug is solid though, not because of it's properties but because of it's legal status. Through having to enter the underground drug black market, people are exposed to the whole thing, they can see people doing lines of coke and having a good time and be influenced by such things. If weed was legal, it would be no more of a gateway drug than cigarettes or alcohol.


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Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.

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OfflineWillieTomg
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: Kaleidoscope]
    #5255852 - 02/02/06 03:37 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't cigarettes and alcohol cited as gateway drugs as well?  I'm trying to think back to my DARE class trying to recall if they talked about legal substances being gateways as well, but I'm having trouble remembering... for some reason... :bongload: :gethigh: :bong2: :bongroll:


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Battles of wits are impossible with the unarmed.

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Offlinefunnybunny
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: WillieTomg]
    #5255946 - 02/02/06 04:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Meditation -> Lucid dreaming -> Weed/Hash -> Cacti

Meditation was what awoke my interest in the psyche, the conscience, the brain.

Please, ban meditation, think of the kids!

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OfflineXUL
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: shamanamba]
    #5255974 - 02/02/06 04:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

alchohol was definatly the gateway drug for me. 100 percent the gateway drug for me.

I smoked my first time because I was drunk.


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TRUMP 2020

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Offlinegotcha420haha
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: XUL]
    #5256149 - 02/02/06 04:51 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I smoked weed. because i love weed, and then the crowd i was chillen with introduced me to shrooms, love them too. I still have boundrys, no addictive drugs is my thing, or chemical drugs (minus LSD), but what im trying to say is, no i dont tihnk pot is a gateway drug, but people dont just wake up and say "i think ill try some speed today", with no drug backround.


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"Sometimes I wonder, If I know where I am going. I go for a walk and it seems like I have been walking for years and years and I don't know where I'm going. I hear the sound leading me on."

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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: gotcha420haha]
    #5256158 - 02/02/06 04:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think its refered to as a gateway drug because the people you get your marijuana from may introduce you to some harder drugs.

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Offlinethe_psychonaut
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5256952 - 02/02/06 08:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

FALSE i wanted to try mush long before pot, although pot happened to be first


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OfflineSapphireCat
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: the_psychonaut]
    #5257030 - 02/02/06 08:40 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i think it can be considered a gateway drug, like for me i was just hanging out with my brothers friends one day and they were smoking weed, they all seemed to be having fun, and i knew they have been smoking for awhile and they're normal people. so when the joint was offered, i accepted, and since i didn't fall over dead i was like: hmmm, maybe i should read up a bit on this. so i learned until i thought i had a half decent knowledge, and i decided that getting high was not as bad as it's made out to be. that made a little click in my mind so i read up on shrooms and stumbled across salvia, studied both of em a bit, and then decided to try em. so for me it was a gateway drug.

my order of drug use:
weed->drink->salvia->shrooms


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Offlineleery11
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: gotcha420haha]
    #5257049 - 02/02/06 08:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gotcha420haha said:
but people dont just wake up and say "i think ill try some speed today", with no drug backround.



i dunno dude...... when i was younger i always said if i'd do any drug it would be speed, because i was into the whole adrenaline rush, roller coasters type thing.

i changed my mind.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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OfflineJackattack
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: leery11]
    #5257208 - 02/02/06 09:10 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think cigs and alcohol is more of a gateway drug then weed is I've seen kids start smoking cigs in the 6th grade.

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Offlinepeace_n_love
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: Jackattack]
    #5257373 - 02/02/06 09:47 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

My thoughts on the subject are that Yes marijuana is a gateway drug but only because it is illegal. See if little Johnny wants some weed he needs to go to a drug dealer who probably is also pushing meth and other shit hence he is connected. That's why marijuana is a gateway drug pure and simple. Prohibition is not the answer.

Peacefulness.

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OfflineTyrone_C
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: shamanamba]
    #5257475 - 02/02/06 10:18 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Meh I think the first thing you try and enjoy is usually a gateway drug. Weed just has all the bad rep because it's the first thing most people try. For me alcohol led to weed and weed led to everything else, so meh. If it weren't for alcohol I wouldn't have even considered trying weed, so meh...each to their own.

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: WillieTomg]
    #5257817 - 02/02/06 11:56 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WillieTomg said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
I think its a gateway drug in this regard:

Pot is illegal
Kid trys pot, relizes its not so bad
Conclusion: All illegal drugs arnt so bad.

Its pot's legal status that makes it a gateway drug.  People who sell one illegal drug often sell another, and the buyers get exposed to that.  If pot was in the supermarket next to the booze, it wouldnt get associated with crack, heroin, and speed.




^^^

Quoted for truth. :thumbup:  I was a militant sXe kid until I went through some hard shit and realized that maybe I should experience a bit more of life before writing it off completely.  I smoked a joint, and loved the hell out of it.  A few months later a friend brought 1.5g of mushrooms over to my place... yadda yadda yadda... and now I grow mushrooms, trip acid, and love it all.

And I've never tried coke/speed/meth (seen too many people burn out on them for my comfort) although I have dabbled in opiates.  I had to swear those off though, since it was too easy for me to just rail a percocet and forget about all my problems for a bit. 

So weed might be a gateway drug in the sense that it usually provides a solid positive experience upon which one can base a healthy regimen of controlled substance use.  It isn't a gateway drug in the sense that if you smoke pot, you'll want to shoot heroin after a while in order to get a stronger high.




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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
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Offlinenew_to_shrooms
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #5257931 - 02/03/06 12:29 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

gotcha420haha, you know pot is addictive right?

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Offlinetripstr
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: new_to_shrooms]
    #5257962 - 02/03/06 12:37 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

fuck no man, marijuana is not a gatway drug. but maybee i guess to some people, actually most people, they just start there exploration with weed.

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Offlinenew_to_shrooms
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: tripstr]
    #5257983 - 02/03/06 12:43 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

lol, you kinda contradicted yourself. its cool your fuckin blazed

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Offlineshamanamba
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: new_to_shrooms]
    #5258198 - 02/03/06 02:58 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

calling pot a gateway to other drugs is like calling church a gateway to religion. if you lived under a rock all of your life and did'nt know anything about drugs, religion, god, or getting high, then curiosity is going to lead you somewhere when you're exposed to them. wether you take jesus as your personal savior, or dont buy organized religion at all, or wether you decide to, or not to smoke pot; its all up to you. nobody has the right to say pot led anyone anywhere because people lead themselves to pot in exactly the same way they are "led" to the god of their beleif. Hell, sometimes drugs lead people to God! :royalrainbow:All i was really trying to say is that the label "gateway drug" was created by the head and founder of an organization designed to protect large corporations from the theat that would have been posed by pot if it stayed on the free market.


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OfflineVeter
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: new_to_shrooms]
    #5258201 - 02/03/06 02:59 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

My gateway drug was 2-CE. It was the first drug I had ever tried (yes, including alcohol). I had always been interested in trying mushrooms throughout highschool.
Tool was my favorite band throughout those years and everything they talked about lead to shrooming/psychedelics.
I planned to do shrooms and was supposed to get them one night. However, my friend was unable to get them and was sold a pill that was said to be "mescaline/petyote in a pill".
I tried it. I was terrified, I was in love, I was everywhere. It was the most mind blowing experience of my life.

I realized illegal drugs might not be so bad for you. I began to try other drugs, and eventually finding my way to my beloved mushroom. Within 4 months, I was smoking pot, drinking alcohol, and doing other psychedelics. Now, I love drugs and I am extremely intrigued by them.

Pot is no more a gateway drug than anything else. It is, however, the drug that most teenagers are likely to use and have a positive experience with. Even if they don't have a positive experience, as long as they dont have a negative experience, theyll realize illegal drugs are not so bad.

If the government really wants to stop that effect, STOP CALLING POT A DRUG. They do it with alcohol and its fairly effective. Do it with pot and when people stop thinking its a drug, they wont associate it with meth, heroine, coke, psychedelics, etc.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: shamanamba]
    #5258333 - 02/03/06 05:53 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Cannabis most certainly can be a gateway drug.

Consider it like this: you go through sober life, minding your own business, when suddenly you take a drug and get high.

You think: "WOW! What IS this thing called high! I want to explore this, it's as rad as skating, and damn it feels good! I want to explore this!"

Then, whatever drug it was, it has become your gateway drug.
Marijuana certainly is interesting enough to do that.

Ether was my gateway drug, it was exactly 20 years ago when I was 13, and I had researched general anesthesia in the local library before I embarked on measured doses in a standard procedure of huffing.
I still have the cloth and the fond memories, and am contemplating to come back to ether, one more time, in this jubilee year of my psychoactive experimenting.
Not because it's so great, but for Old Time's Sake.


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OfflineIrdamage
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Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 1,491
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: Asante]
    #5258457 - 02/03/06 08:11 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Once again a standard case of blaming something for a personal choice and responsibility. Other why's known as a scape goat. Its my personal beleif that the government doesn't like to admit that the drug problems in the country are not going away, and that the harder they try to combat cannabis and "harder" substances, the harder people try to get there hands on these items. People clearly like to use drugs. So an easier solution than saying "Well I guess alot of people just really like these things and will keep doing them no matter what we do." is to say "These people were led to harder drugs by pot!"- and sadly alot of people still beleive this. Its all personal choice. A drug such as cannabis, CANNOT whisper into your ear and encourage you to use other drugs. This is a personal choice that comes from experience and observation, for example: Kid smokes some pot, finds out it didnt give him brain damage or turn him into a schitzophrenic killer. Begins to realize that not everything hes told is true, perhaps this could apply to that MDMA or Shrooms his dealer once offered. Ta-Da kid moves on to something "harder" not by in influence from some plant, but because of the realization that drug use and its seriousness is completely subjective and a matter of personal choice.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The not so age old debate : Gateway drug or not? [Re: shamanamba]
    #5260023 - 02/03/06 05:06 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

We Dutch use less of ALL drugs than in the US.

I can top that!

We in holland are half as likely to smoke weed than americans are.
Thats right! Now investigate for yourself if this is true!

Surely a country with pot sold in coffeeshops legally, wouldn't have less pot use than a country with heavy criminalisation?

:omg:


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