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InvisibleIcelander
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A sad story.
    #5255253 - 02/02/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

There once was a tribe of American Indians that were being systamatically wiped out by overwhelming numbers of U.S. Soldiers. These men, women, and children had fought and won many a pitched battle and against overwehelming odds won time and again. But now they were almost out of food and ammunition except for bows and arrows. At the last they were trapped in a cave and could not be extracted without some loss of life by the soldiers. So the Soldiers decided to starve them out.

The suffering was great. Fear of dying is always a challenge. In the end the last braves strung their bows and instead of waiting charged the soldiers.

They could have held out longer hoping for some miracle. I approve of their choice. I have always remembered this story and remember how hard I cried when I read it.

It has been hard for me to appreciate this culture when the soldiers are still running things.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5255372 - 02/02/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

That is a sad story. All these stories about other cultures and civilizations being wiped out always pissed me off intensely.

Ya soldiers are still running things, in fact I'd even say they've never been as powerful as they are now.

Eisenhower tried to warn us, "beware of the military-industrial complex".


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: exclusive58]
    #5255394 - 02/02/06 01:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Oh yes, we have had our warnings. Humanity isn't ready to hear it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A sad story. [Re: exclusive58]
    #5255524 - 02/02/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Eisenhower tried to warn us, "beware of the military-industrial complex".



The foresight of that quote amazes me.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5255537 - 02/02/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I grow weary of accepting the intricate towers and circuitry that have been sewn over certain misery and anguish. This boat is sinking and I'm too old and we are all too old to grin and shrug any longer.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: A sad story. [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5255678 - 02/02/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Much better to die an Honorable death than a pitiful one...whether it be figuratively or literally, eh Ice? :heart:


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5255684 - 02/02/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It is sad. But on the other hand it is very inspirational. Knowing full well that their death was assured, they choose to die on their own terms instead of the white mans.

One final act of bravery. To die with honor.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: A sad story. [Re: gregorio]
    #5255793 - 02/02/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gregorio said:
It is sad. But on the other hand it is very inspirational. Knowing full well that their death was assured, they choose to die on their own terms instead of the white mans.

One final act of bravery. To die with honor.




What's the point of honor, when there's no surviving members of your group left to appreciate it?

Would you rather keep your family and friends alive by cowardice or die along with them by honor?

But that is a good story, Icelander. It is representative of life as a whole, in my opinion; no matter what we do, death is always waiting for us, whether by violence, hunger, disease or simple decay. If we are going to fade away, we might as well choose the time and place.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineTheGus
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Ravus]
    #5255816 - 02/02/06 03:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

i hate seeing things like that

just doesnt make any sense to do stuff like that unless you are the one being attacked, i dont understand these people who are all at war with one another, i just dont get it....


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5255821 - 02/02/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

:hug:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Ravus]
    #5255875 - 02/02/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:


What's the point of honor, when there's no surviving members of your group left to appreciate it?

Would you rather keep your family and friends alive by cowardice or die along with them by honor?

If we are going to fade away, we might as well choose the time and place.




You just answered your own questions. They were all going to die anyway.


Edited by gregorio (02/02/06 03:44 PM)


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: A sad story. [Re: gregorio]
    #5255976 - 02/02/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Indeed, but I don't think that has anything to do with honor, anymore than Hunter S. Thompson was honorable for killing himself rather than letting the slow decay of time take him.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5255984 - 02/02/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I can relate to this story. I know what it's like to have your peaceful homeland invaded by drivelling idiots with bloodlust. To drive you away into some cave, depriving you of your food, all the while fighting with inferior weaponry. Very sad indeed.

So it's last charge then ftw eh? Thanks for the anecdote.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Shroomism]
    #5256171 - 02/02/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Then why did you just give me an official warning for writing this? :confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5256207 - 02/02/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
There once was a tribe of American Indians that were being systamatically wiped out by overwhelming numbers of U.S. Soldiers. These men, women, and children had fought and won many a pitched battle and against overwehelming odds won time and again. But now they were almost out of food and ammunition except for bows and arrows. At the last they were trapped in a cave and could not be extracted without some loss of life by the soldiers. So the Soldiers decided to starve them out.




please take no offense in my corrections and stay with me as you'll have
something with which to think on when I'm done, there are no American Indians
there are human beings, if you refer to us as other than people, please just
use Indian, NDN, or even injun, we tend to find being associated as americans
as offensive because we are soveriegn peoples, not citizens, undortunately
we are under the rule of white men and told we are free.

The story you have told has happened time and again, it's still happening today
just in a different way, in the old, at wounded knee soldiers killed, men,
women and children but they didnt stop there they killed the animals including
the ponies, why kill such a valuable animal? 'cuz white men couldnt ride indian
ponies, they do things differently it's the reason the people were slaughtered.



Quote:

The suffering was great. Fear of dying is always a challenge. In the end the last braves strung their bows and instead of waiting charged the soldiers.

They could have held out longer hoping for some miracle. I approve of their choice. I have always remembered this story and remember how hard I cried when I read it.




I'll tell you now a story of the people that called themselves Aniyunwiya, in
their tongue it means 'the principal people'. They were acording to the whites
the civilized savages. They lived in homes much like those of whites, they
developed advanced agricultural methods that suited the areas they lived, they
had long established laws that brought balance to their villages.

White men came and were welcomed and soon they began to prosper, the whites
looked down on them and began taking from them, they took land, lives and homes.
Balance was shifted, and the Aniyunwiya saw this, they tried to reconcile and
make things right again. The whites wouldnt have it because they had desires
that couldnt be satisfied. The whites wanted more, they wanted it all, they
told these people, they needed to change to become more like them so the
Aniyunwiya did so in order to preserve the peace and their lives, they
had seen what was happening to the other nations that refused.

The Tsalagi Nation (Aniyunwiya people) emerged, they developed 'white
laws', writen words, and a constitution. the began to dress like whites and
acted more like whites but the differences were still there and the whites
still saw them, no change was good enough. Many thought it was cute, the savages
pretending to be white.

the whites started killing them, and driving them from their homes, not just
one or two villages, the entire nation, what choice did they have, the could
choose to stay and die or leave and live, as the white soldiers herded them
away they encountered more nations and soon they too were driven from their
homes, those that resisted were massacred, the Mobile, the Biloxi, all dead
because they chose to fight. their songs will no longer reach the sky as there
is no one left to sing it.

The Aniyunwiya are still alive and our culture lives on, we can teach it to
our children as it was taught to us. We remained strong through many hard times
because it is our nature, we live because we chose our battles carefully and
didnt chose to sacrifice those we love over land that was not even ours.


Quote:

It has been hard for me to appreciate this culture when the soldiers are still running things.




it's harder still to appreciate a culture that isnt around or if your not there
to learn about it... choices are always up to you, make the wrong choice and
maybe you wont have to live with it.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: A sad story. [Re: VirgilKane]
    #5256212 - 02/02/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

schapper said:
Much better to die an Honorable death than a pitiful one...whether it be figuratively or literally, eh Ice? :heart:




it's much better to live than to die whether it be honorable or not


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5256221 - 02/02/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry I can't agree with you, but good luck with all that. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5256272 - 02/02/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

then it's obviously not a choice you've ever actualy faced, throwing yourself off
a cliff because some cowboy shot your brother? where's the honor in that, where
I am from, we call it foolishness.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5256292 - 02/02/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
then it's obviously not a choice you've ever actualy faced, throwing yourself off
a cliff because some cowboy shot your brother? where's the honor in that, where
I am from, we call it foolishness.




Where did you come up with an example like that? It has nothing to do with this story or the point I was making.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5256320 - 02/02/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I dunno, maybe you arent ready to hear it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5256335 - 02/02/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I dunno maybe it's not on the topic.

If you're dead already there may be personal satisfaction, or honor if you will, in choosing how you will expire.

It would be foolish to kill oneself just because a loved one did. No one ever claimed otherwise. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5256402 - 02/02/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I dunno maybe it's not on the topic.





isnt sad indian stories the topic?

Quote:

If you're dead already there may be personal satisfaction, or honor if you will, in choosing how you will expire.




maybe, but can we know if theres satisfaction after death when many still
question life after death (straying from the topic now :smirk: ), given your
examples was it really your choice in how you died, the soldiers had 2 choices,
starve you out while they reserve ammunition and fatten up, or kill you when you
exit the cave to fight and then go back home... your choices appeard to be death
(I'm just using you in the sead of the indians because it's easier for me to keep up this way, read my title, you'll understand)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5256415 - 02/02/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

:grin: Good title.

I never meant to say there was satisfaction after death. I'm talking about how you die. I don't know what happens after death.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5256585 - 02/02/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I thought the latest politically correct term was "First Americans"... so I'm 1/32nd First American. My grandmother hates being labeled anything other than human, but she's never corrected anybody that says "Native American" or "American Indian" or whatever.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5256599 - 02/02/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

There was a man who was not kind to animals. One day when he was hunting, he found a rattlesnake and decided to torture it. He held its head to the ground and pierced it with a piece of bark. Then as it was caught there, he tormented it.
"We shall fight," he said and then burned the snake until it was dead. He thought this was a great jest and so, whenever he found a snake, he would do the same thing.

One day another man from his village was walking through the forest when he heard a strange sound. It was louder than the wind hissing through the tops of tall pine trees. He crept closer to see. There, in a great clearing, were many snakes. They were gathered for a war council and as he listened in fright he heard them say:

"We shall now fight with them. Djisdaah has challenged us and we shall go to war. In four days we shall go to their village and fight them."

The man crept away and then ran as fast as he could to his village to tell what he had heard and seen. The chief sent other men to see if the report was true. They returned in great fright.

"Ahhhhh," they said, "it is so. The snakes are all gathering to have a war."

The chief of the village could see that he had no choice. "We must fight," he said and ordered the people of the village to make preparations for the battle. They cut mountains of wood and stacked it in long piles all around the village. They built rows of stakes close together to keep the snakes out. When the fourth day came, the chief ordered that the piles of wood be set on fire. Just as he did so they heard a great noise, like a great wind in the trees. It was the noise of the snakes, hissing as they came to the village to do battle.

Usually a snake will not go near a fire, but these snakes were determined to have their revenge. They went straight into the flames. Many of them died, but the living snakes crawled over the bodies of the dead ones and continued to move forward until they reached the second row of stakes.

Once again, the chief ordered that the piles of wood in the second row of defense be set on fire. But the snakes crawled straight into the flames, hissing their war songs, and the living crawled over the bodies of the dead. It was a terrible sight. They reached the second row of stakes and, even though the people fought bravely, it was no use. The snakes were more numerous than fallen leaves and they could not be stopped. Soon they forced their way past the last row of stakes and the people of the village were fighting for their lives. The first man to be killed was Djisdaah, the one who had challenged the snakes to battle.

It was now clear that they could never win this battle. The chief of the village shouted to the snakes who had reached the edge of the village: "Hear me, my brothers. We surrender to you.

We have done you a great wrong. Have mercy on us."

The snakes stopped where they were and there was a great silence.

The exhausted warriors looked at the great army of snakes and the snakes stared back at them. Then the earth trembled and cracked in front of the human beings. A great snake, a snake taller than the biggest pine tree, whose head was larger than a great long house, lifted himself out of the hole in the earth

"Hear me," he said. "I am the chief of all the snakes. We shall go and leave you in peace if you will agree to two things."

The chief looked at the great snake and nodded his head. "We will agree, Great Chief," he said.

"It is well," said the Chief of the Snakes. "These are the two things. First, you must always treat my people with respect. Secondly, as long as the world stands, you will never name another man Djisdaah."

And so it was agreed and so it is, even today.

-------------

Iroquois Indian legend ...

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Sclorch]
    #5256609 - 02/02/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"First Nations" in Canada; "Indian" in the US.

Indians aren't really that PC, for the most part.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: MAIA]
    #5256614 - 02/02/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
There was a man who was not kind to animals. One day when he was hunting, he found a rattlesnake and decided to torture it. He held its head to the ground and pierced it with a piece of bark. Then as it was caught there, he tormented it.
"We shall fight," he said and then burned the snake until it was dead. He thought this was a great jest and so, whenever he found a snake, he would do the same thing.

One day another man from his village was walking through the forest when he heard a strange sound. It was louder than the wind hissing through the tops of tall pine trees. He crept closer to see. There, in a great clearing, were many snakes. They were gathered for a war council and as he listened in fright he heard them say:

"We shall now fight with them. Djisdaah has challenged us and we shall go to war. In four days we shall go to their village and fight them."

The man crept away and then ran as fast as he could to his village to tell what he had heard and seen. The chief sent other men to see if the report was true. They returned in great fright.

"Ahhhhh," they said, "it is so. The snakes are all gathering to have a war."

The chief of the village could see that he had no choice. "We must fight," he said and ordered the people of the village to make preparations for the battle. They cut mountains of wood and stacked it in long piles all around the village. They built rows of stakes close together to keep the snakes out. When the fourth day came, the chief ordered that the piles of wood be set on fire. Just as he did so they heard a great noise, like a great wind in the trees. It was the noise of the snakes, hissing as they came to the village to do battle.

Usually a snake will not go near a fire, but these snakes were determined to have their revenge. They went straight into the flames. Many of them died, but the living snakes crawled over the bodies of the dead ones and continued to move forward until they reached the second row of stakes.

Once again, the chief ordered that the piles of wood in the second row of defense be set on fire. But the snakes crawled straight into the flames, hissing their war songs, and the living crawled over the bodies of the dead. It was a terrible sight. They reached the second row of stakes and, even though the people fought bravely, it was no use. The snakes were more numerous than fallen leaves and they could not be stopped. Soon they forced their way past the last row of stakes and the people of the village were fighting for their lives. The first man to be killed was Djisdaah, the one who had challenged the snakes to battle.

It was now clear that they could never win this battle. The chief of the village shouted to the snakes who had reached the edge of the village: "Hear me, my brothers. We surrender to you.

We have done you a great wrong. Have mercy on us."

The snakes stopped where they were and there was a great silence.

The exhausted warriors looked at the great army of snakes and the snakes stared back at them. Then the earth trembled and cracked in front of the human beings. A great snake, a snake taller than the biggest pine tree, whose head was larger than a great long house, lifted himself out of the hole in the earth

"Hear me," he said. "I am the chief of all the snakes. We shall go and leave you in peace if you will agree to two things."

The chief looked at the great snake and nodded his head. "We will agree, Great Chief," he said.

"It is well," said the Chief of the Snakes. "These are the two things. First, you must always treat my people with respect. Secondly, as long as the world stands, you will never name another man Djisdaah."

And so it was agreed and so it is, even today.

-------------

Iroquois Indian legend ...

MAIA




I grew up near Iroquois country, I never heard that one.

And I don't get what this has to do with my thread. You're not heading off topic are you? Maybe you can explain the connection as my brain is a little tired today.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5257639 - 02/02/06 11:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

a cliff because some cowboy shot your brother? where's the honor in that, where
I am from, we call it foolishness.




No comparision. The honor in that would be to hunt down who shot down your brother. If you die in the process, you have died with honor. Much better I say than leaving town and forgetting like it never happened.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5258036 - 02/03/06 12:59 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
it's much better to live than to die whether it be honorable or not




We all die, it's just a matter of how we reach that point. I'd rather die in honor than live a life in cowardice.

And I find debates of anecdotes rather irrelevant of proving anything - anecdotes are always biased and never objective. An anecdote's authenticity is always questioned and they can be counteracted with another anecdote ... which, could be made up on the spot. They can serve as a cherry on top of your argument, but weak by themselves. It's like having all dessert for lunch.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: A sad story. [Re: TheGus]
    #5258055 - 02/03/06 01:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

TheGus said:
i hate seeing things like that

just doesnt make any sense to do stuff like that unless you are the one being attacked, i dont understand these people who are all at war with one another, i just dont get it....




You got nothing you would die for? Then you have nothing to live for either, the two go hand in hand.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5258533 - 02/03/06 09:02 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then why did you just give me an official warning for writing this? :confused:




Shroomism. Please answer this question.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5258664 - 02/03/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

AS STATED IN THE WARNING YOU RECEIVED> I gave you a warning for making multiple threads with obvious undertones of anti-shroomery dissension, otherwise known as trolling with the intent to stir up drama.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Shroomism]
    #5258711 - 02/03/06 10:28 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks I wanted to hear you say I was warned for telling my truth about the world.

In the baptist church I grew up in they used to say one was "convicted" when someone was making a general statement about wrongdoing and a paticular person who overheard took it personally and thought you were talking about them. You see they had a guilty conscience and so took a general statement to be about them.

I think you also said I was flaming here. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5258719 - 02/03/06 10:34 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

No, as you become more acquainted with the ban bot, you will see that Flaming/Trolling is a single category. You were trolling, not flaming, but your offense fit under the one category.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: shroomydan]
    #5258731 - 02/03/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the clarification. I am sure I will know all about ban-bot soon enough. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineWildRunner
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5259072 - 02/03/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Oh yes, we have had our warnings. Humanity isn't ready to hear it.




I got a little secret for ya, WE ARENT HUMANITY.


--------------------
If you dont know where you're going, any road will take you there.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A sad story. [Re: WildRunner]
    #5259199 - 02/03/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Really? Who are we? In general. :tunnel:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: A sad story. [Re: shroomydan]
    #5263528 - 02/04/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
Indians aren't really that PC, for the most part.




indians arent a politicaly correct people, the term is prefered because when the
spanish labeled us it was as the people of god, indios


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5263542 - 02/04/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I grew up near Iroquois country, I never heard that one.




it's similar to a cherokee tale regarding blance in our laws, the story tels of
a woman that killed a rattle snake, the other snakes learned of the death and
approached her husband, and told him they were planning to kill her, he arainged
to have a single snake meet him at his home to kill her when he sent her for
water from the spring, under the old cherokee laws, if you were to kill a member
of my family, your family would then have to select a member to be put to death

Quote:

And I don't get what this has to do with my thread. You're not heading off topic are you? Maybe you can explain the connection as my brain is a little tired today.  :mushroom2:




what exactly is the topic if it's not sad injun tales?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Fospher]
    #5263571 - 02/04/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
it's much better to live than to die whether it be honorable or not




We all die, it's just a matter of how we reach that point. I'd rather die in honor than live a life in cowardice.




is it cowardice to be a passive person or to accept whats done as being
unchangable or even to die of old age? What you see as cowardly may not
be to another, it depends on your nature.


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5263665 - 02/04/06 06:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

my wife is 50% american indian

they hate you...

There once was a tribe of American Indians that were being systamatically wiped out by overwhelming numbers of U.S. Soldiers. These men, women, and children had fought and won many a pitched battle and against overwehelming odds won time and again. But now they were almost out of food and ammunition except for bows and arrows. At the last they were trapped in a cave and could not be extracted without some loss of life by the soldiers. So the Soldiers decided to starve them out.

The suffering was great. Fear of dying is always a challenge. In the end the last braves strung their bows and instead of waiting charged the soldiers.

They could have held out longer hoping for some miracle. I approve of their choice. I have always remembered this story and remember how hard I cried when I read it.

It has been hard for me to appreciate this culture when the soldiers are still running things.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: A sad story. [Re: Icelander]
    #5264052 - 02/04/06 08:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
There once was a tribe of American Indians that were being systamatically wiped out by overwhelming numbers of U.S. Soldiers. These men, women, and children had fought and won many a pitched battle and against overwehelming odds won time and again. But now they were almost out of food and ammunition except for bows and arrows. At the last they were trapped in a cave and could not be extracted without some loss of life by the soldiers. So the Soldiers decided to starve them out.

The suffering was great. Fear of dying is always a challenge. In the end the last braves strung their bows and instead of waiting charged the soldiers.

They could have held out longer hoping for some miracle. I approve of their choice. I have always remembered this story and remember how hard I cried when I read it.

It has been hard for me to appreciate this culture when the soldiers are still running things.




Well,
who are the soldiers's soldiers?
Do you cry for that story too?


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OfflineFospher
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5266620 - 02/05/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
is it cowardice to be a passive person or to accept whats done as being
unchangable or even to die of old age? What you see as cowardly may not
be to another, it depends on your nature.




No, not really. There's certain consensus of where "honor" really stands. It's to do something out of selflessness, do something from the heart. You might think that hiding out in the trenches might be the most logical way to stay alive during the war even though your platoon is rushing out in no-man's land, and even survive afterwards ... but add up the perception of many, and you didnt make an honorable decision.


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Fospher]
    #5266631 - 02/05/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

For many, it is more honorable to live than to kill and die.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: A sad story. [Re: Schwammel]
    #5266638 - 02/05/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

honor makes people do stupid things


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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OfflineFospher
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Re: A sad story. [Re: shroomydan]
    #5266657 - 02/05/06 03:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
For many, it is more honorable to live than to kill and die.




But dying for your country (when there's an honorable cause, not some WMD bullshit), or dying for your loved ones is dying for everything that you stand for.


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