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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
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Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Icelander]
    #5260111 - 02/03/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Tell that to the Mods.  At least one of them them thinks you can drive someone to suicide by typing out a few words on a keyboard. :tongue:



Anyone pushed to suicide by the mean spirited words of some anonymous being from the internet, obviously had some pre-existing psychological problems to begin with. IMHO

Anyone on this board could say whatever they want about me or to me and I would just let it slide. Most of the mean things said here are just kids doing it to be funny, anyways.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5260142 - 02/03/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Of course. This is only rational and healthy. You may survive. :grin: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibletrendalM
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Posts: 20,815
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Icelander]
    #5260165 - 02/03/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
At least one of them them thinks you can drive someone to suicide by typing out a few words on a keyboard.




I know one ex-member who claims to have "saved" the lives of two other members, who were going to commit suicide, by posting on these boards.

Do you think it is possible to prevent someone from committing suicide by typing out a few words on a keyboard?

If so, why is the opposite not true?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: trendal]
    #5260183 - 02/03/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Good question. No it is not possible to prevent someone from committing suicied. They make the choice from within. We all decide these things from within. No one can make me do or feel anything by their words alone unless I will it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: trendal]
    #5260230 - 02/03/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
At least one of them them thinks you can drive someone to suicide by typing out a few words on a keyboard.




I know one ex-member who claims to have "saved" the lives of two other members, who were going to commit suicide, by posting on these boards.

Do you think it is possible to prevent someone from committing suicide by typing out a few words on a keyboard?

If so, why is the opposite not true?



I think it's possible to talk someone out of committing suicide. Just talking with someone can do so much. Hostage negotiators would agree with me.

Opening up a dialogue is the important part of talking someone out of something, what goes on inside their head comes out in the communication. Keep them talking and they'll feel like they have something to live for, if only a little. Furthermore, if someone is posting on an internet message board about their suicidal feelings... then they've already taken a big step away from really wanting to go through with it.

However, the inverse (driving someone to committ suicide) does not have the same rules. You'd have to get inside their head and then SHUT DOWN communication. I just don't think that's possible on an internet message board.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Sclorch]
    #5260265 - 02/03/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

So it goes one way but not the other? How does that work?
What if someone posted about how they thought they were fat and ugly, and didn't want to live anymore, and I came and said Good... you disgusting fat ugly waste of human life, do the world a favor and off yourself. This would have no effect?
No, you cannot MAKE anyone do anything they do not want to do. However, you can certainly influence their feelings with your words.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: trendal]
    #5260270 - 02/03/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
At least one of them them thinks you can drive someone to suicide by typing out a few words on a keyboard.




I know one ex-member who claims to have "saved" the lives of two other members, who were going to commit suicide, by posting on these boards.

Do you think it is possible to prevent someone from committing suicide by typing out a few words on a keyboard?

If so, why is the opposite not true?




Seeing as most people have a will to survive and a natural fear of death, dying and pain, I believe it'd be easier to bring someone back from the brink of suicide than to push them to it. A few words on the internet may help provide solace to a suicidal person, but I doubt a few words on the internet could bring suicidal panic to a healthy person.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Ravus]
    #5260285 - 02/03/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Seeing as most people have a will to survive and a natural fear of death, dying and pain, I believe it'd be easier to bring someone back from the brink of suicide than to push them to it. A few words on the internet may help provide solace to a suicidal person, but I doubt a few words on the internet could bring suicidal panic to a healthy person.




Very true, but I didn't ask if one was easier than the other...just if they were both possible.

Now it's not fair to point out a "healthy person" and say it's impossible to make them commit suicide with a few words on the internet...because conversely a person who is healthy cannot be talked out of committing suicide.

How about this: what if a person is already suicidal, but obviously has not made up the final decision. As we've said, it is possible to talk them down from this state - to help prevent them from committing suicide. Is it not, however, possible to talk them into committing suicide when they are already so close?

If not, why is one possible and the other isn't?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Ravus]
    #5260297 - 02/03/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)


Seeing as most people have a will to survive and a natural fear of death, dying and pain, I believe it'd be easier to bring someone back from the brink of suicide than to push them to it. A few words on the internet may help provide solace to a suicidal person, but I doubt a few words on the internet could bring suicidal panic to a healthy person.


a few words on the internet could inspire someone who was going to commit suicide to change their mind.


Good question. No it is not possible to prevent someone from committing suicied. They make the choice from within. We all decide these things from within. No one can make me do or feel anything by their words alone unless I will it.



so you're saying that a child who suffers emotional problems as a result of being verbally abused at home is at fault because he chose to let them affect him? the situation is no different with a severely psychologically disturbed person. what others say to him can either inspire him to overcome his problems or result in him spiraling down into suicide. no one is claiming that his feelings and decisions don't come from within, just that what you say to another person can utlimately affect their decisions. otherwise therapy would useless. it seems like you're saying that evironment has no effect on people.


Edited by Deviate (02/03/06 06:48 PM)


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: trendal]
    #5260310 - 02/03/06 06:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I do believe they're both possible, but in terms of likeliness, I can't see people committing suicide very often because someone said something nasty on a drug forum.

And if it this was the case, a person who commits suicide because of something someone said on the internet probably wouldn't have lasted very long anyway, seeing as plenty of people in real life are willing to insult and harm you in obviously worse ways.

Without a doubt though, I think that a lot of things could push a very unstable person over the edge, including internet talk. But I wouldn't say this is so much a symptom of the internet, than of the unstable nature of that person's mind.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Ravus]
    #5260314 - 02/03/06 06:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Without a doubt though, I think that a lot of things could push a very unstable person over the edge, including internet talk. But I wouldn't say this is so much a symptom of the internet, than of the unstable nature of that person's mind.




Well I definitely agree with you there :thumbup:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Deviate]
    #5260409 - 02/03/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I was remiss in not stating that children who have not developed fully adult reasoning abilities, would be exempt. Adults are a different story.

While our environment certainly effects us as children, an adult is responsible for him/herself. In the end we are responsible for our thoughts and choices as no one can make them for us. This is what I have observed in myself. I had a very dysfunctional abusive childhood. I thought that was responsible for my pain. When I learned (with great help from :mushroom2:), that I was self talking myself into my experience of living; I taught myself how to reprogram my bio computer. Now that pain that was caused by the things that happened to me then, does not have the same power to cause pain, yet only my thinking changed. Taking responsibility for you own life is the warriors path. It's not for many. Most will continue to believe the world or someone is doing something to them. But ultimately we choose how we will feel about every single thing that happens to us. Maybe it all comes down to personal power.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Icelander]
    #5260470 - 02/03/06 07:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I was remiss in not stating that children who have not developed fully adult reasoning abilities, would be exempt. Adults are a different story.

While our environment certainly effects us as children, an adult is responsible for him/herself. In the end we are responsible for our thoughts and choices as no one can make them for us. This is what I have observed in myself. I had a very dysfunctional abusive childhood. I thought that was responsible for my pain. When I learned (with great help from :mushroom2:), that I was self talking myself into my experience of living; I taught myself how to reprogram my bio computer. Now that pain that was caused by the things that happened to me then, does not have the same power to cause pain, yet only my thinking changed. Taking responsibility for you own life is the warriors path. It's not for many. Most will continue to believe the world or someone is doing something to them. But ultimately we choose how we will feel about every single thing that happens to us. Maybe it all comes down to personal power.




yes but a severely disturbed person cannot see that and thus is comparable to a child in my opinion.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Veritas has left the building. [Re: Shroomism]
    #5260658 - 02/03/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hi Shroomism

Quote:

Shroomism said:
So it goes one way but not the other? How does that work?
What if someone posted about how they thought they were fat and ugly, and didn't want to live anymore, and I came and said Good... you disgusting fat ugly waste of human life, do the world a favor and off yourself. This would have no effect?
No, you cannot MAKE anyone do anything they do not want to do. However, you can certainly influence their feelings with your words.



It's like I said, though, you aren't going to talk a psychologically healthy person into commiting suicide over the internet. They have to have had some problems before hand.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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