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InvisibleIcelander
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Loc: underbelly
Managers
    #5251833 - 02/01/06 04:33 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

I have often wondered what makes people want to manage other people? I used to believe that people want to manage because they have useful skills and want to be of service. But this has not been my experience of people that want to manager or be in charge of other humans. With all the evidence in I'm tending toward believing that most all manager types have inferiority complexes and feel powerless. They often are of low character and weak. Take a look at Enron. Take a look at Politics. Take a look around you.

What cha all think?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5251870 - 02/01/06 04:43 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

I am a computer programmer contractor.
it used to be lines or time for money.
then this guy asked me to do too much,
so I got him to hire some people, well I did the hiring too
charged him by the time
and now they work for me,
but they work for him.

So I am a manager
not really, but really.

someone's got to do it.

Actually the work rules.
figuring out what the work is or should be,
and having the best clue about that
is my refuge in any conflict.

my plans consider the others' abilities and past performance
everyone works in their own space time continuum.
less like a team than a bag of snails.
but we make slow steady progress.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5251913 - 02/01/06 04:52 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

I have often wondered what makes people want to manage other people?



:money:

It pays more.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Managers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5251919 - 02/01/06 04:54 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

Guess I want to look a little bit deeper than "the work". I do know some who do it for the money but there is a personality type. I could have made more money and I chose not to.

The American Indians ( I read) in general felt that it was injurious to the spirit to work for another. It was a kind of slavery. To work for the good of the tribe or family was a motivator. But not to be a boss or have a boss.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5251929 - 02/01/06 04:56 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

Recall Zimbardo's Stanford prison experiment? People  :heart: Power


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Managers [Re: spud]
    #5251949 - 02/01/06 05:00 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

That brings up the question of what real power is. The weak soul IMO seeks power over others. The strong soul seeks power over the self.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5251962 - 02/01/06 05:03 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

I'm considering a managerial position because the pay for the position below it kind of sucks...


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5251981 - 02/01/06 05:07 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

There were 70 respondents. Zimbardo and his team of professionals selected 24 whom they deemed to be the most psychologically stable and healthy.

The group was divided in half at random into an equal group of "prisoners" and "guards". This division was decided by random coin tosses.

The overwhelming majority of the guards displayed extreme Sadistic behavior. If your hypothesis is correct, that means that the overwhelming majority of society has a weak soul, since the experiment choose the variables in a well representable manner.

Call me an optimist, but I like to believe that there is a deeper underlying cause, something which transcends having a "weak soul".


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Managers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #5251987 - 02/01/06 05:07 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

Would you choose to be a manager if pay was not an object?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5251997 - 02/01/06 05:10 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Would you choose to be a manager if pay was not an object?




I sure as heck wouldn't. The stress one endures as a manager would drive one insane, without the monetary incentive.

Even with the incentive, I could never picture myself as a manager. A teacher, yes; which I guess one could argue is a manager in a sense...?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Posts: 37,534
Re: Managers [Re: spud]
    #5252033 - 02/01/06 05:18 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

I would not choose it
a certain type of work would choose me
I just would aquiesce and continue
work is just one of the forms of work
one has to do.

there is that whole rolling outta bed in the morning thing
and hauling off to where something can be done
and picking up the vittles
etc.etc.etc.
one must
manage


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Loc: underbelly
Re: Managers [Re: spud]
    #5252041 - 02/01/06 05:20 PM (18 years, 14 hours ago)

A teacher does not have to be a manager.

I agree about being a manager. There are other incentives besides money and some I have mentioned. There is a prestige factor also. It makes us feel important and above the crowd.

I developed a little saying after years of being involved in Managerial disputes as a staff Representative of the company where I work. "The bottom is the top." . I saw and see so much weakness of character on the management side of things I came to respect the average wage slave more than any manager. They often were of a more confident character. Often not. But I have rarely met a manager who has the character to govern with integrity. I do know of one though. But he's not your average human at all.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5252313 - 02/01/06 06:36 PM (18 years, 12 hours ago)

Negative publicity will attract much more attention than will positive publicity - just look at the daily news. It's easy to fall under the stereotypical notion that managers are overpaid people with too much time on their hands that snicker and mingle with other administrative figures, play golf all day and play mind-games with everybody as portrayed in movies, sitcoms, etc. Let us not forget that such media-portrayals employ the technique of exaggeration for the sake of entertainment and drama.

In reality, most managers [at least, in the business world, i.e, retails, industrials, commercials, financials] put in 60 hr work weeks, on a GOOD week - much like one particular fellow with whom I am acquainted, and is a store manager of Lowes, a nationwide retail business. And from what he's told me, it doesn't get any easier when you move up, to the District Manager, nor to the Regional Manager, nor to the Corporate Manager, and not even to the position of the CEO. This is one of the reasons why such positions pay quite lucratively - because in reality, not very many people actually want to deal with that. It takes a certain kind of temperament, just as being a good actor requires a certain kind of temperament.

Personally, I agree with Jacques. I would have no problem going for a managerial position - hell, I'd shoot for the sky - as I value productivity and profitability - and I certainly don't mind prestige on the side as well, just as I wouldn't mind having a girlfriend with nice tits.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Managers [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5252327 - 02/01/06 06:42 PM (18 years, 12 hours ago)

If you become a manager maybe you can bribe the girl with big tits. Just dangle the salary increase in front of her. Managers have perks.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5252396 - 02/01/06 07:08 PM (18 years, 12 hours ago)

Some can whish to become managers for many reasons. Yes it can be from a mental problem they have, considering theh this could be a way to feel "in power", some for the money, some cause they really feel they have somrthing to show, some for more then one reason. The thing is it shouldn't be generalised.
But I thnk MOST want to become managers for all the wrong reasons, and the ones with the true abilities are bein swallowed by the others. Every culture has it's "managers" only they act different. While one are dictators, others eveolved on the spiritual side and became spiritual leaders.
It's just the multi-faced nature of things. Where the same thing is good, bad, boring, funny and so on simultanously, from differnt points of wiew.
Depends on what kind of managers you're talking about. The type of manager we all know is.... :doh:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleWoodsCall
own it
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Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5252691 - 02/01/06 08:18 PM (18 years, 11 hours ago)

I became a reatail manager (actually I'm technically a dept head or supervisor) for the sole purpose of learning more at my job. I simply get bored. After about a year's worth of work in any given department, I feel I have mastered most aspects of it and wish to move on to another area. I finally found an area of work that I relatively enjoy, and to move up gave me a greater chance to put my mind to use in many different manners.

I currently have 14 people under me, and for the most part they seem to respect me. I teach them new ways of implementing things, I'm organized, and I don't point my finger until I get all the facts. If they ask me a question, before I say "I don't know," I try to find the answer. I have a great crew, except for the few stragglers who don't get paid enough to do the job, and therefore feel they shouldn't have to work as hard.

For me, though, I must say I do hate delegating. I do it, but it just isn't my forte. I prefer to work with others to help them develop a skillset, but I do not enjoy giving explicit directions and making sure my employees follow through. I've been working on developing a team approach to delegating, but in a corporate heirarchy, I have many hurdles to jump.

When it comes down to it, I DO NOT want to become salaried management. I value my sanity, and am content with the money I make. There are many more things in life worth living than being a true slave to my job.


--------------------
Live free or die.


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5252989 - 02/01/06 09:09 PM (18 years, 10 hours ago)

Some managers like the fact that for 8 + hours of the day they can tell you what to do, it gives them a sense of being important and they feel they can talk down on you. But if you ever met this person on the street and they behaved in some condescending waylike they do in the office, their ass would be beat. It reminds me of Pink Floyd, in the video of Another Brick.... the school teacher took out his anger and psychological problems on the kids, but then at home he got beat by his fat wife...


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OfflineIrdamage
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Re: Managers [Re: chodamunky]
    #5254704 - 02/02/06 11:01 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Managers can be both very good, and very bad depending on the person, the type of work, and the ammount of stress on a perticular day. Theres alot of factors that go into these attitudes. In my younger days I would be required to take positions under managers, and to be quite honest many of them were decent people who never tried to "bully" anyone in the office. Merely asking them to do the ocasional task when it came up. However alot of employees took this the wrong way and absolutely despised these managers simply for the fact that they were appointed to be in charge. I really dont think these kind of people realize that while a manager guides your work progress it doesnt necessarily mean there a snarling power hungry control freak.

To be fair though, there are many prickish managers who do love to abuse power. These are the ones who usually get nothing done because they encounter alot of resistance. Short story time:

Back in the day I was with a small team doing ramedial computer processing tasks for hours on end (really simple admin stuff :/). With an older manager in his fifties. The man was a prick to no end, he treated everyone like crap and tried to get us in shit at any opertunity that could be found. So one day I was clocked out, and made sure my replacement for the evening had been brought up to speed on what was going on. And just as I was heading out the door the manager stopped me and said "Where the fuck do you think your going?! Youve got to stay here and finish the invoices!" I responded with "Ive set my replacement onto it and he knows how to do it all, it will be ready by 6am tommorrow morning *or whatever the actual time was when it was due* and I've told him to call me on my private line if he needs any help." So he indignantly looks at me and sais "Your not going anywhere tonight unless youve got another job lined up that I don't know about." And remembering what George Carlin once said about not taking shit from managers. I responded with "Correction. Im going home because ive just put in a 16 hour shift, which is apernalty more hours than youve worked in the last 3 days. And If youde like me to quit and leave your ass hanging with a deadline and no workers, than by all means say the word." He didn't hassle me again after that...but was fired 2 months afterwards for trying to attack a female employee (as in literally hit her). But aperanlty all he got was a kick in the balls from her and a couple shots from the co-workers :P Karma works!


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Managers [Re: Icelander]
    #5254874 - 02/02/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I sorrowly don't have the time to read all answers, but one thing I can tell you.
Here, especially where I work, they are all ?ber-hyper-special extraordinarily crazy. All. Most of the old ones kick their old and ancient view on things, act in hierarchic ways and think the chief of the company is God.
I came in there as a little one before 12 years or so and they kicked me up to quite shitty conditions, but first hierarchically. It is extremly twisted and extremly crazy and vew vew oxigen the higher you get....you know, the higher to fall..
I am not that high, but on a fucking crazy course that is opposed to my personal wellbeing and view of nature...
My influence is rising, power corrupts :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Managers [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5254935 - 02/02/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

As my other thread was closed I will add my comments there to this thread, so we may continue with this investigation.

Quote:


Like I said in my last post on Management I've been involved in work relations from both sides. The power structure is involved in separating themselves from the employee and this is to a large degree dysfunctional. Often records and important information is only available to management and can be unavailable to employees or destroyed at their discretion. I don't know how many times I have heard management claim confidentiality only to protect themselves from having to share information that would implicate them in wrongdoing. Take a look at world politics and major corps, in this country Watergate etc. It is also true in small business were management wants a strong separation from employees. The fact is Dictatorships, businesses, and Govts. hide incriminating evidence from the general population and will use any means at their disposal to put down those who seek justice. It takes an unpopular guy like Micheal Moore to dig it out. I still remember his interview with Charlton Heston. Man that was an eye opener.

I really don't see any real change in our world as long as we have this kind of thing going on. What cha think?




--------------------


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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