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hamloaf
Pork Block ®©™√



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 22,052
Loc: ation undisclosed.
Last seen: 1 hour, 24 minutes
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_]
#20798255 - 11/05/14 06:47 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Liquid culture techniques have their place when you want/need to exponentially expand your agar cultures into jars or bags of sterilized grains.
There is a lot less materials to work with as well as time spent prepping and sterilizing grains when going from agar to LC to grain instead of going agar to grain then G2G. Vectors for contamination regarding liquid culture techniques are immediately opened when you inoculate liquid cultures with spores.
If your sterile procedures are good, LC can be a great tool to be utilized properly. I would just suggest that you have your sterile procedures down pact, and ONLY inoculate LC's with a known clean culture from a petri dish.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: bodhisatta]
#20798257 - 11/05/14 06:47 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: it's more like even though it works I still would rather use agar for the reasons that are clear. I think it's good for someone not to skip over using agar as a tool until they get their first contamination. There's two LC users those who haven't had a contamination and those who have. With agar at least you know what you're doing before you try to run. LC can be a great tool. I don't argue against it in it's use for mass producing edible species stored as isolates and easily disseminated across amateur mycologists one of the best strains ever produced. But for cubes using agar is just as fast and effective if in rotation through out stages of growing even for a quite less modestly sized grow.
LC before agar is like not learning how to drive a manual as your first car. it really works for people to drive an automatic first but I prefer knowing how my car works.
there are technically 3 types. those that have, those that havn't and those that have had both success and failure. i fit into the 3rd category. but once you get lc's down they are unmatched.
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_OttO_
Over Stimulated



Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 2,594
Loc: Up Over
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: hamloaf]
#20798284 - 11/05/14 06:54 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said: Liquid culture techniques have their place when you want/need to exponentially expand your agar cultures into jars or bags of sterilized grains.
There is a lot less materials to work with as well as time spent prepping and sterilizing grains when going from agar to LC to grain instead of going agar to grain then G2G. Vectors for contamination regarding liquid culture techniques are immediately opened when you inoculate liquid cultures with spores.
If your sterile procedures are good, LC can be a great tool to be utilized properly. I would just suggest that you have your sterile procedures down pact, and ONLY inoculate LC's with a known clean culture from a petri dish.
Great advice. I was only trying to get beginners to be less scared of trying mycology, by showing how easy it can be.
Although people will argue if the beginner fails with LC then they might give up altogether, which is a valid enough point.
Personally, when I was first starting out I was turned off by the idea of agar, because it made the hobby sound complicated - but when I found out how easy spores to LC was, I was excited about mycology and my interest grew exponentially from there.
Luckily, LC worked everytime for me.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,893
Loc: Milky way
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_]
#20798286 - 11/05/14 06:54 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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You don't like to have a counter argument regarding how to jump into this hobby in a thread about how to jump into this hobby. Lock it up in your journal away from critique new cultivators should hear the what options they have and make decisions for themselves. I'm not twisting any ones arm but I'm going to give my advice here in public. it's not your private ass thread because you author it. you're free from ridicule and harassment if you read the rules.
If someone is saying this should be put to rest because of results. it's pretty similar to believing in RR just because of his god phenomenon.
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_OttO_
Over Stimulated



Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 2,594
Loc: Up Over
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: bodhisatta]
#20798348 - 11/05/14 07:04 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: You don't like to have a counter argument regarding how to jump into this hobby in a thread about how to jump into this hobby. Lock it up in your journal away from critique new cultivators should hear the what options they have and make decisions for themselves. I'm not twisting any ones arm but I'm going to give my advice here in public. it's not your private ass thread because you author it. you're free from ridicule and harassment if you read the rules.
If someone is saying this should be put to rest because of results. it's pretty similar to believing in RR just because of his god phenomenon.
I really appreciate your input, and advice. I also agree agar is a better medium to play with to spot contaminations.
I also argue the idea of agar can put a complete beginner off, because it looks complicated. This method looks easier to start off with, so might encourage more people to have a play with mushrooms.
- Everyone has a pot with a lid lying around their house, some honey, and a jar with a lid.
See the point yet?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,893
Loc: Milky way
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_]
#20798394 - 11/05/14 07:11 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's people who do want to start out that way and they will if they want. just the same as two different wrenches on a shelf. you can't make they buy either one that's their choice, at least they have two options. I would save up my money for the better option, that's me you don't have to be me.
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: bodhisatta]
#20798425 - 11/05/14 07:17 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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This looks like one of those agree to disagree situations.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,893
Loc: Milky way
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: MudaFuka]
#20798464 - 11/05/14 07:24 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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sure is. but people come in here and ask things from time to time and new people are reading it all the time. it's staying relevant. this method is a hot topic if you're tired of talking about your method let it stand for itself, let it get talked about in the current, etc..
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_OttO_
Over Stimulated



Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 2,594
Loc: Up Over
Last seen: 12 days, 19 hours
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: bodhisatta]
#20798497 - 11/05/14 07:29 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: There's people who do want to start out that way and they will if they want. just the same as two different wrenches on a shelf. you can't make they buy either one that's their choice, at least they have two options. I would save up my money for the better option, that's me you don't have to be me.
There's people who might not even pick up the 'wrench' because the 'building project' sounds too hard, when you see all the other tools you need to buy to make the project work.
I would encourage you to start a thread documenting the easiest way for a complete beginner to get into cultivating using agar, with things lying around their house and no pressure cooker.
The purpose would be to encourage them to get into a hobby that they might not try in the first place because it sounds too hard.
Then I will comment on how great it was that you tried to encourage more people to get inspired to try mycology.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,893
Loc: Milky way
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_]
#20798611 - 11/05/14 07:53 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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it's easier than making boxed mac n cheese. LC and agar. you go to the store buy agar flakes. buy some pp5 cups or order sterile plates. you can steam sterilize agar just like LC jars you don't need a PC. stir up your agar just like you stir up a LC pour it into the dishes in a SAB that's easily made and you should be using anyway. open air inoculations work, but for 10$ even a shitty SAB is kind of a no brainer.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 10,329
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: bodhisatta]
#20798647 - 11/05/14 07:59 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm as new as it gets and I'm very glad to have tried both methods. My initial LC didn't colonize, likely due to a bad syringe, but I'm glad I have experience doing it and I'm going to do it again. The exact same goes for agar work as well!
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,346
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: stareatclouds]
#20798682 - 11/05/14 08:03 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought you needed a PC for agar, so I did LCs in the past, namely this tek. Out of all half dozen or so that I made, 5 of them were rocket fuel for my jars. One did absolutely nothing. None contaminated, and I had great results. I grew my weed shrooms using MS LC from this tek.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: eatyualive]
#20799083 - 11/05/14 09:20 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: it's more like even though it works I still would rather use agar for the reasons that are clear. I think it's good for someone not to skip over using agar as a tool until they get their first contamination. There's two LC users those who haven't had a contamination and those who have. With agar at least you know what you're doing before you try to run. LC can be a great tool. I don't argue against it in it's use for mass producing edible species stored as isolates and easily disseminated across amateur mycologists one of the best strains ever produced. But for cubes using agar is just as fast and effective if in rotation through out stages of growing even for a quite less modestly sized grow.
LC before agar is like not learning how to drive a manual as your first car. it really works for people to drive an automatic first but I prefer knowing how my car works.
there are technically 3 types. those that have, those that havn't and those that have had both success and failure. i fit into the 3rd category. but once you get lc's down they are unmatched.
QFFT. That's quoted for fucking truth. I did lc for years and years before ever even trying agar. I've cloned so many mother fucking mushrooms with lc. I've cloned em with grain. Yes, agar is absolutely the best way as it opens up so many more doors. But LCs fucking rock. Always have and always will. Hell, i lost 200 jars to a bad lc several months ago. But that is a drop in the bucket negative compared to all the positives I've had with lc over the years. Try lc again, with an open mind. Then speak. Until then, shut the fuck up everyone!
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: bodhisatta]
#20803340 - 11/06/14 08:25 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: it's easier than making boxed mac n cheese. LC and agar. you go to the store buy agar flakes. buy some pp5 cups or order sterile plates. you can steam sterilize agar just like LC jars you don't need a PC. stir up your agar just like you stir up a LC pour it into the dishes in a SAB that's easily made and you should be using anyway. open air inoculations work, but for 10$ even a shitty SAB is kind of a no brainer.
lc's are even easier than that. open air, you don't have to build or do anything. your making more work building and pcing things. more agar you have to mix, you have to pour. if you do no pour you still have to prep it, pc it, and get the sab setup. this saves you the trip to the store, less money spending it on agar flakes, no pp5 cups needed. making things complicated..when it isn't necessary to have success. just use the hell out of some lysol and turn your ac off at least 30-45 mins prior. clean the hell out of your area and keep exposure time to a minimum. ive been using lc's for more than 10 years and they fucking rock!
Edited by eatyualive (11/06/14 08:32 PM)
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: eatyualive]
#20803417 - 11/06/14 08:38 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: azur]
#20803455 - 11/06/14 08:45 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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hopefully i get my camera back tommorow but my subs are doing fucking great! dunked grains speed things up nicely.....the only difff i could see in the two lc's was speed because one was used with a culture i had on agar which i was able toisloate the fastest growth possible, it was far faster then the one i dropped spores in
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: cronicr]
#20803537 - 11/06/14 09:01 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: hopefully i get my camera back tommorow but my subs are doing fucking great! dunked grains speed things up nicely.....the only difff i could see in the two lc's was speed because one was used with a culture i had on agar which i was able toisloate the fastest growth possible, it was far faster then the one i dropped spores in
how much faster do the dunked grains make the substrate colonize?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,885
Loc: Canada
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: cronicr]
#20803539 - 11/06/14 09:02 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Honestly I like LC. I think the reason I take issue with LC from spores is simply because of the number of contamed syringes I have gotten from vendors (even got a couple from sponsors). My own prints have always turned out clean and so I probably could pull off a spores inoculation with prints I made myself. But most noobs won't be using prints they made themselves and so I shudder at the prospect of them having the same bad luck I had.
There is only one sponsor I would trust to make LC from spores with. Fact is I already did that and it was fine. Maybe I just have bad luck. But it has made me wary, which is not always a bad thing.
My last cube LC was a purple mystic clone and that shit was aggessive as hell, a thing of beauty to combine those genetics with LC
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: eatyualive]
#20803574 - 11/06/14 09:08 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
cronicr said: hopefully i get my camera back tommorow but my subs are doing fucking great! dunked grains speed things up nicely.....the only difff i could see in the two lc's was speed because one was used with a culture i had on agar which i was able toisloate the fastest growth possible, it was far faster then the one i dropped spores in
how much faster do the dunked grains make the substrate colonize?
in this case i couldn't tell ya yet but in past experience it's been 4-6 days earlier, not that any body has seen it pin faster they tend to pin around the same time from what i've seen butcolonization was nice and quick, frank's thread was a great one indeed
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20803599 - 11/06/14 09:14 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Honestly I like LC. I think the reason I take issue with LC from spores is simply because of the number of contamed syringes I have gotten from vendors (even got a couple from sponsors). My own prints have always turned out clean and so I probably could pull off a spores inoculation with prints I made myself. But most noobs won't be using prints they made themselves and so I shudder at the prospect of them having the same bad luck I had.
There is only one sponsor I would trust to make LC from spores with. Fact is I already did that and it was fine. Maybe I just have bad luck. But it has made me wary, which is not always a bad thing.
My last cube LC was a purple mystic clone and that shit was aggessive as hell, a thing of beauty to combine those genetics with LC 
once i get a particular cube ill grow it out, print it and keep starting from my own prints forever. out of 17 years of making my own multispore syringes i can honestly say ive only lost a few to contams. which is a very high percentage. in the past, vendors used to be rock solid. i can even say a few vendors that i used for more than 10 years never sent me a bad syringe. things seem to have changed. when businesses get too big, too fast. mistakes happen trying to keep up with orders. it can in the end become a losing battle. you really have to keep it at a manageable size for quality over quantity imho. even back then, if you had a contaminated syringe, they would send a new one right away. but ive heard this all over the place, even notoriously great vendors have issues. no one is perfect, but its the customer service and willingness on their behalf to keep a great reputation is what keeps them in business. but then sometimes its a pita because your waiting forever and feel like you got ripped off.
hell pf himself ripped me off 200$ and even acknowledged it to me in a letter(which had his letterhead and name on it blacked out with sharpie but still visible held up to light). i would chat with him daily at topia back in the day he used to go there quite often. and when he got out of prison i chatted with him and he was hitting me up for donations for his trial. and all i said was "your asking me for help when you ripped me off 200$ when i didn't have any money, acknowledged it, and did nothing when you were thriving. why should i help you?" i didn't tell him where to shove it or anything. but i just wanted him to remember it. i had carved him these awesome little crazy clay glazed mushroom statues which he said he kept on his shelf at home. even then, he still did me wrong.
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