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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,893
Loc: Milky way
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: spacechildo]
#20649594 - 10/02/14 04:41 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: no matter how good your sterile techniques are you can't change what's already present on a print or in a syringe! 
exactly but shh don't say that it's a bias against starting a LC the wrong way.
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: cronicr]
#20649738 - 10/02/14 05:10 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I got no problem with people asking questions. If I jumped on someone for simply asking a question I apologize. But I make no apologies for calling out a tek which advocates using spores to inoculate, having holes exposed or opening a lid in open air. These things might have been considered an acceptable practice ten years ago, but we know better today I also dislike the notion that LC is "noob friendly". Agar is noob friendly. If you can get agar down then you are ready for LC.

amen my brother otto it's a good post and i'm glad it works for ya, not something i will reccomend to anybody i see on the boards and will advise against when i see it, but only because it lacks a standard to ensure a good success rate
About this standard to ensure a good success rate: Ok with agar you can SEE a contam like bacteria or mold, but can't you do the same thing with MS -> lc? If it's cloudy its bacterial, if it's growing too fast it's mold. Can others with extensive experience with MS -> LC state their success rate in spotting contams this way? It seems like a flawless way to detect contams in lc but maybe there is something I'm not seeing?
If what I said does hold true, that takes away the only advantage agar has (visibility of contams).
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: invitro]
#20649752 - 10/02/14 05:14 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: but maybe there is something I'm not seeing?
exactly! there's a lot of things you're not seeing in a LC!
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: spacechildo]
#20649765 - 10/02/14 05:16 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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No seriously, I can see contams in an lc as well or better than I can see them in agar, which is why I only do MS with an LC anymore. I'm trying to get some confirmation on this from the LC masters.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,893
Loc: Milky way
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: spacechildo]
#20649776 - 10/02/14 05:20 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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you might be able to tell if a LC is bad but you can't tell if it's good. on agar if you get mold or bacteria you can still isolate clean growth away and start a new dish which will hopefully be clean, with an LC you just toss it out.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: invitro]
#20649784 - 10/02/14 05:21 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Invitro, don't argue with these guys. It's what gets them off. They want pics and documentation if you want their respect. So post results in pics or don't worry about what they think. I usually choose the latter
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: invitro]
#20649786 - 10/02/14 05:21 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: About this standard to ensure a good success rate: Ok with agar you can SEE a contam like bacteria or mold, but can't you do the same thing with MS -> lc?
You might be able to see it in a LC, but you won't be able to do anything about it except toss it.
With agar you have a really good chance of being able to transfer clean mycellium away from any contam, and save the culture.
Quote:
invitro said: If it's cloudy its bacterial, if it's growing too fast it's mold.
Not really true at all.....and the word fast is too vague.....
Quote:
invitro said: Can others with extensive experience with MS -> LC state their success rate in spotting contams this way? It seems like a flawless way to detect contams in lc but maybe there is something I'm not seeing?
Yes, the contams........lol.
Your eyes are not microscopes....and contams in LCs are not always obvious.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart]
#20649826 - 10/02/14 05:29 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: you might be able to tell if a LC is bad but you can't tell if it's good. on agar if you get mold or bacteria you can still isolate clean growth away and start a new dish which will hopefully be clean, with an LC you just toss it out.
What I'm saying is if it doesn't look bad it IS good in my experience. Isolate clean growth? who cares just staQuote:
PussyFart said:
Quote:
invitro said: About this standard to ensure a good success rate: Ok with agar you can SEE a contam like bacteria or mold, but can't you do the same thing with MS -> lc?
You might be able to see it in a LC, but you won't be able to do anything about it except toss it.
With agar you have a really good chance of being able to transfer clean mycellium away from any contam, and save the culture.
Quote:
invitro said: If it's cloudy its bacterial, if it's growing too fast it's mold.
Not really true at all.....and the word fast is too vague.....
Quote:
invitro said: Can others with extensive experience with MS -> LC state their success rate in spotting contams this way? It seems like a flawless way to detect contams in lc but maybe there is something I'm not seeing?
Yes, the contams........lol.
Your eyes are not microscopes....and contams in LCs are not always obvious.
When you say the word fast is too vauge tells me you have limited experience, or just weren't paying attention when you did your lcs. There is a very remarkable difference between the speed of mold myc and mushroom mycelium. Try doing some lcs and contams a few on purpose and watch the growth rate, it's unmistakable. It works every time for me.
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: invitro]
#20649886 - 10/02/14 05:43 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Who in their right mind only starts one petri dish then tries to clean it up. You start 5 or 10 and just keep the good ones. Clean up work is for taking wild shrooms into culture or something. So start more than one lc with ms, who cares if you have to chuck one?
If what I'm saying is right, that you can see contams in lc, then agar is the cave painting
Edited by invitro (10/02/14 05:43 PM)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: invitro]
#20649896 - 10/02/14 05:46 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Reguardless of if you can spot a contam, you still can't do anything but toss a contaminated LC.....you have a 95%+(IME) chance of being able to save a contaminated agar dish....
I will admit I do not have that much experience with LCs.....and my experience with LCs is only from spores>LC.....but when I had 4 different LCs from 4 different syringes give me 8 different contaminated test jars, and all I could do was toss the LCs and start over, I decided that if I am going to spend my time in this hobby, I might as well figure out a fool proof way to do it successfully, as to not waste any more time/supplies/effort on inferior techniques.....this is when I invested into a case of petris and never looked back.
I haven't really lost many agar cultures from contamination.....I have always been able to transfer away and save it.....even on plates with trich........transferred away from trich 3 times successfully so far....
Now cobweb mold, because of it's nature, is almost impossible to transfer away from, mostly because of the speed at which is colonizes.....at least that's my experience....I had swiped some spores from a trade on a dish and in 2-3 days the whole dish was colonized with cobweb.......the spores didn't even have enough time to germinate lol.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: invitro]
#20649906 - 10/02/14 05:50 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: Who in their right mind only starts one petri dish then tries to clean it up. You start 5 or 10 and just keep the good ones. Clean up work is for taking wild shrooms into culture or something. So start more than one lc with ms, who cares if you have to chuck one?
No one said anything about only starting one dish...and nobody should put themselves in a position where they NEED to clean up a culture, I agree... but it's called practice....
Quote:
invitro said: If what I'm saying is right, that you can see contams in lc, then agar is the cave painting 
It's not......you cannot always see contams in LCs.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (10/02/14 05:51 PM)
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart]
#20649949 - 10/02/14 05:58 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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How do I say this nicely? If you don't have much experience with it... maybe best not to slam it so hard? Really do yourself a favor and try ms to lc in a clean environment and the purposely mess up an lc with trich spores and see the difference in growth.
Spores don't always take off in lc, just keep that in mind, for reasons beyond me 50% of my jars are just dead out for no apparent reason. So expect 50% of your ms lcs to take off and 50% to do absolutely nothing.
I once tried culturing trich on purpose by removing the lid on an lc for 1 whole minute in a room that had a huge trich bloom go off in it. You know I couldn't get a damn thing to grow in that lc, not even trich. LC's are kinda weird that way sometimes.
Anyone else who is slamming lcs, do the test I mentioned and watch the growth rates, and SEE the difference... And for clarity I'm talking about MS innoculations.
Edit to address your latest post: You wanna say that you can't always spot the contam, but how about saying that after you have some real experience?
Edited by invitro (10/02/14 06:12 PM)
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart]
#20649953 - 10/02/14 05:59 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Boobs!!!! I just wanted to interjected some ta ta's and good stuff into this thread.
A bad LC can ruin your WHOLE grow op. But a good one can save you dickloads of time.
If you do an LC just like anything else in this hobby, do not cut corners, test it out before going balls out and innoculating the world, and go agar->LC.
That is all.
Ps. Also to end on a good note
Boobs!!!!!
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Ghatti]
#20649998 - 10/02/14 06:07 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ghatti said: Boobs!!!! I just wanted to interjected some ta ta's and good stuff into this thread.
A bad LC can ruin your WHOLE grow op. But a good one can save you dickloads of time.
If you do an LC just like anything else in this hobby, do not cut corners, test it out before going balls out and innoculating the world, and go agar->LC.
That is all.
Ps. Also to end on a good note
Boobs!!!!!
QFT
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: invitro]
#20650026 - 10/02/14 06:14 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: Edit to address your latest post: You wanna say that you can't always spot the contam, but how about saying that after you have some real experience?
If it were actually possible, you would think there would be a "Contaminatd LC Visual Identification" tek, pictorial, thread, instructional video or something of that nature by now......
But no, there are however thousands of posts/threads from cultivators with actual experience telling people that test jars are always a must when going spores>LC, because there is no way to tell if the LC is 100% clean or not by visual inspection.....
Even it it were possible, the success rate is just not enough to make it worth it to me.....plus i don't like extra work.....if 50% of them do nothing because "Spores don't always take off in lc", that means half the time I spend preparing these LCs would be a waste.
If cube spores have a hard time germinating in LCs, as you said, then wouldn't you think the same would apply for some mold spores?
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (10/02/14 06:14 PM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart]
#20650116 - 10/02/14 06:37 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is this still a discussion? how hard is it to understand that YES it's possible to see contams in a LC, but NO its not possible to see them all.
you might think they look good, but there's stuff you dont see.
1; its possible to see if a LC is contamed and 2; its NOT possible to see if a LC indeed is clean..
I think PF has some more exp than you in this invitro.. its pretty obvious after these "discussions".. aka bickering back and forth..
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TheGuyNamedPuck
TotallyPucked



Registered: 08/30/14
Posts: 57
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: spacechildo]
#20650282 - 10/02/14 07:21 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Can you use karo syrup?
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,346
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: TheGuyNamedPuck]
#20650303 - 10/02/14 07:28 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have used karo, honey, and turbino sugar to make lcs in the past
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TheGuyNamedPuck
TotallyPucked



Registered: 08/30/14
Posts: 57
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Munchauzen]
#20650306 - 10/02/14 07:30 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cool. Thank you
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: TheGuyNamedPuck]
#20650560 - 10/02/14 08:16 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you'll read my posts... 1)it states what my experience is 2)I ask for other with real experience to chime in to confirm or deny (not people without much experience)
Nowhere do I say that it's a fact that you can always detect contams. Do some real science and tell me what your results are, otherwise it kind of trollish.
PF's crystals of the Gods turned out to be table salt, even the best are allowed to be wrong ok?
Edited by invitro (10/02/14 08:18 PM)
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