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InvisibleMyco_Militia
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Registered: 11/08/12
Posts: 108
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Re: A foolproof method for making Liquid culture [Re: Javadog] * 1
    #17262473 - 11/22/12 02:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks Javadog.  How does a contam hide any different in gelatin than agar?  Anything to do with viscosity?  Or is it because anything (including contams) will grow faster in agar than gelatin, and thus be able to spot it sooner?  I have noticed faster growth in agar over gelatin in my cultivations so far.

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Offlinezenroe
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Myco_Militia] * 1
    #17262509 - 11/22/12 03:13 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hey thanks!

This will be so much better I hate waiting for my spores to germinate uh.. This way I can put a shit load of LC jars in the fridge and start off when I want to.

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OfflineGoldenArrow
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Re: A foolproof method for making Liquid culture [Re: Myco_Militia] * 1
    #17262575 - 11/22/12 03:30 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Myco_Militia said:
Thanks Javadog.  How does a contam hide any different in gelatin than agar?  Anything to do with viscosity?  Or is it because anything (including contams) will grow faster in agar than gelatin, and thus be able to spot it sooner?  I have noticed faster growth in agar over gelatin in my cultivations so far.



I have a feeling you're talking about LC made with agar rather than agar plates, am I right?

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Invisiblethelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,435
Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: GoldenArrow] * 1
    #17271287 - 11/23/12 09:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

this is real nice thanks

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InvisibleMyco_Militia
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Re: A foolproof method for making Liquid culture [Re: GoldenArrow] * 1
    #17272990 - 11/24/12 10:00 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenArrow said:
Quote:

Myco_Militia said:
Thanks Javadog.  How does a contam hide any different in gelatin than agar?  Anything to do with viscosity?  Or is it because anything (including contams) will grow faster in agar than gelatin, and thus be able to spot it sooner?  I have noticed faster growth in agar over gelatin in my cultivations so far.



I have a feeling you're talking about LC made with agar rather than agar plates, am I right?



Yup

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OfflineGoldenArrow
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Re: A foolproof method for making Liquid culture [Re: Myco_Militia] * 1
    #17273340 - 11/24/12 11:31 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

In that case, they're talking about agar plates - so hopefully the differences/replies make more sense now!

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OfflineDJ Lance
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_] * 1
    #17352254 - 12/07/12 07:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, this is really helpful. With all of the things I'm trying to study and learn and read at the same time, this really relieved a lot of my stress!

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: DJ Lance] * 1
    #17352349 - 12/07/12 08:08 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Lance said:
Wow, this is really helpful. With all of the things I'm trying to study and learn and read at the same time, this really relieved a lot of my stress!



This tek sucks imo.

LCs from spores are sketchy. No spore syringe/print is ever 100% clean.

This is because the cap from which the spores came was more than likely fruited in the open air.

You cannot know 100% if an LC is good or not by visual inspection.

Test jars must be shot up and grown out.

Conditions are not correct for germination of spores in sugar LCs, grain LCs or extra light malt extract based LCs are perfect for spore germination.

For best results, make LCs from a fully colonized grain jar(GLC) or from an agar wedge.

Or skip LC entirely and just G2G(Grain to Grain) transfers to expand your mycellium.

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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart] * 2
    #17352732 - 12/07/12 09:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Conditions are not correct for germination of spores in sugar LCs




My spores seem to like honey a lot.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace
I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know


"A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." - Proverbs 17:22

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #17352756 - 12/07/12 09:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Conditions are not correct for germination of spores in sugar LCs




My spores seem to like honey a lot.



:shrug:

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Offline_OttO_
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #17535873 - 01/12/13 01:29 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

DJ Lance said:
Wow, this is really helpful. With all of the things I'm trying to study and learn and read at the same time, this really relieved a lot of my stress!



This tek sucks imo.

LCs from spores are sketchy. No spore syringe/print is ever 100% clean.

This is because the cap from which the spores came was more than likely fruited in the open air.

You cannot know 100% if an LC is good or not by visual inspection.

Test jars must be shot up and grown out.

Conditions are not correct for germination of spores in sugar LCs, grain LCs or extra light malt extract based LCs are perfect for spore germination.

For best results, make LCs from a fully colonized grain jar(GLC) or from an agar wedge.

Or skip LC entirely and just G2G(Grain to Grain) transfers to expand your mycellium.




Fear based posts like this prevent people from playing with this hobby.

This pictorial wasn't supposed to be the most fail safe way to make a Liquid Culture, only an easy and inviting one to encourage people to have a go at mycology who might not otherwise.

And saying that, judging by 6 years of success using this method, with proper technique I can safely say this is an incredibly successful way to start a liquid culture - so go suck a cock. :smile:

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_] * 1
    #17536088 - 01/12/13 02:54 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

_OttO_ said:
Fear based posts like this prevent people from playing with this hobby.



Fear based? LOL!

It's a known fact that LCS have a higher failure rate than G2G transfers.

It's also a known fact that LCs from spores are sketchy.

Also sugar based LCs are not the proper environment for spores to germinate, there are better methods.

If this scares noobs away from LCs, well then I think I did good, and I am only considering the massive failure rate that they could have when compared to G2G transfers.

Plus G2G is a faster and safer way to expand mycellium.

God forbid I teach noobs about a more successful way of doing things.

Quote:

_OttO_ said:
so go suck a cock. :smile:



No Thanks.

Edited by PussyFart (01/12/13 02:56 AM)

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #17536787 - 01/12/13 09:49 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Also sugar based LCs are not the proper environment for spores to germinate




I pointed out earlier in this thread that this comment was odd. Spores germinate fine in various sugar solutions. You might want to provide some rational info to back up your claim, otherwise you just seem biased. In this case 'proper' seems more like a (wrong) opinion on your part.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace
I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know


"A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." - Proverbs 17:22

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #17537040 - 01/12/13 10:59 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Also sugar based LCs are not the proper environment for spores to germinate




I pointed out earlier in this thread that this comment was odd. Spores germinate fine in various sugar solutions. You might want to provide some rational info to back up your claim, otherwise you just seem biased. In this case 'proper' seems more like a (wrong) opinion on your part.



Just something a TC posted in one of my threads...Not to mention all the sugar(honey) based LCs I have made from spores have failed, but the 2 I have made with ELME from spores I am having some success with.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17167323

Ok, so even if you take that one statement away, there is still a higher failure rate when compared to other methods of expanding mycellium.

And in my opinion and experience, G2G is a far less risky move, especially for noobs, so why not start them off on a far more successful road then LCs from spores?

It's been my observation over the last 6 months that LCs are becoming less and less popular because of all the failures, and the search results speak for themselves.

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #17537542 - 01/12/13 12:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

All that doesn't prevent the spores from germinating and consuming the sugar.:shrug:

I do several batches of (honey) LC per year and haven't had a failure in 5+ years. Spore source, procedure, and medium container all play a part in a person's success rate. Not all situations are proper for LC but that's different than saying sugar isn't a proper food. I personally don't care if everyone forgets LCs exist. I have no reason to promote specific mycological practices, though I can understand in light of a failure rate having a preference and promoting it based on the desire to see others do well.

But my experiences differ, so I say sugar water is a good medium for colonization from syringe which is what most people use it for.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace
I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know


"A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." - Proverbs 17:22

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Offlinemycofever
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #17537815 - 01/12/13 01:50 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

In my trials I have found that if the spores do not germinate than you have either mixed your lc to rich or sterilized for to long. Sterilizing for too long will caramelize the sugar I have done this a few times and had zero growth.


--------------------
Patience will help you keep your sanity.It will insure your success if you are patient in all aspects of mushroom growing.When you rush you are prone to make mistakes and all of your efforts are wasted.

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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon Flag
Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: mycofever] * 1
    #17537948 - 01/12/13 02:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well I think the tek is good.
Also, if you spend money on cultures that are clean from someone like sporeworks,
This is a great way to expand. Cheaply too.

2 thumbs up!

The other thing I like is that the ratios are given in small workable amounts.
If you're expanding cultures this is a good way to go.
Who wants extra innoculant?  I do

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: mycofever] * 1
    #17539249 - 01/12/13 07:05 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycofever said:
In my trials I have found that if the spores do not germinate than you have either mixed your lc to rich or sterilized for to long. Sterilizing for too long will caramelize the sugar I have done this a few times and had zero growth.




Same here on the few fails I've had. What are your PC time/temps?

1.3 Tablespoons liquid sugar per pint of water will make a 4% sugar solution. A 'heaping tablespoon' is close enough. I like to start with hot tap water so the honey dissolves quickly. I've always done well using sponsor syringes. I also use LC to clone tissue. Never a contam. If contams were a problem I would surely have moved on by now. I do advocate buying/making inoculation ports and gas exchange ports as it's easy and only costs a few bucks.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace
I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know


"A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." - Proverbs 17:22

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Offline_OttO_
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #17539374 - 01/12/13 07:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
And in my opinion and experience, G2G is a far less risky move, especially for noobs, so why not start them off on a far more successful road then LCs from spores?





Because they still need to have a colonised grain jar to start with, and this was originally written with people in mind who are absolute beginners, who haven't got a pressure cooker and are still using the pf tek - to get them interested in learning easier ways to expand mycelium and see some faster results to encourage them to move forward with the hobby. You don't even need to mess about with making a spore syringe - you can go straight from print to liquid, it doesnt get much easier...

What was in my head when I wrote it - the more people who are encouraged to play with mycology = the more minds expanded = a better world.

I'm just a bit sick of explaining the importance of why I kept this tek simple and appealing - it was never intended as a comparison to more advanced techniques which obviously have less room for error, but are often also more intimidating for an absoulte beginner.

Lastly, it works. It works really fucking well - I have made hundreds upon hundreds of LC's this way and had very, very low contamination rates, for a variety of species.

Edited by _OttO_ (01/12/13 07:45 PM)

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_] * 1
    #17540041 - 01/12/13 10:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I hear ya...and I never meant to offend you, I guess I never should have said it sucked, sorry.

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