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DeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: bodhisatta]
#19846588 - 04/14/14 10:57 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:

I like to give people the calculus rather than lie to them about it with algebra.
And what's the calculus sir?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,808
Loc: Canada
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: DeadHearts]
#19846721 - 04/14/14 11:38 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeadHearts said: But do not deny open air teks do not work and work well because they do 
I will say that it is possible that open air teks work. It is also possible for me to win the lottery. What I have been saying all along, is that I like my advice and/or recommendations to be based on a certain level of certainty. A clean agar wedge is clean. Anything inoculated in open air is quite possibly not. Spore prints from mushrooms fruited in open air are sometimes not. Syringes made with those prints are sometimes not. A clean agar wedge is still clean, I can tell by looking. An LC can be contamed and I might not know until I grow a pile of nasty.
I like clean LC. I hate contamed LC. I would rather have LC that I know has the best chance to be clean, than have one that someone thinks has a good chance of being clean. I don't care if one is perceived to be easier than the other. If anyone thinks agar is hard, then maybe they should try finger painting.
Sorry OttO, I am now done. *hides thread*
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Asura
Cyantist

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 10 days, 10 hours
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: DeadHearts]
#19846722 - 04/14/14 11:38 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeadHearts said: But do not deny open air teks do not work and work well because they do 
But I wasn't denying that they do, but I don't think that most people are attuned to their environment. So the the easiest thing to do (and the hardest) is to just be overly cautious.
I may be wrong here, but there seems to be 2 kinds of people here. Those that like the process and those that just want to get some mushrooms. I'm not in a hurry.
Edited by Asura (04/14/14 11:42 PM)
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_OttO_
Over Stimulated



Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Up Over
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19847573 - 04/15/14 07:58 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm grateful for the excited discussion this is prompting, thanks everyone for their opinions. It's interesting seeing statements that I agree, with juxtaposed with those I don't. I find it fascinating that the human mind works so hard to defend its perception of reality....
May I please re-state my points, I genuinely feel people miss them in their minds rush to defend their own perception of reality/reasons for believing something.
There's a few reasons why it always works -
1) Air movement creates a high spore movement and increases chances of contamination, hence why they call it a 'Still Air Box'. Shutting up the doors and windows and any drafts in your house an hour or two prior to working, sanitizing your work bench and hands before you start, not breathing on your work and working in slow, smooth motions (ALL normal mycology practices anyway and always good to incorporate) makes your house into an oversized Still Air Box anyway. I don't care how dirty your house was to start with, if you do this part properly your chances of failure are insignificant.
2) The jar is only opened a *crack* to introduce spores with a knife tip, or not opened at all if using a syringe - apart from exposing the inoculation hole. The means that not only is your outside environment really, really clean, but the media (LC) is *BARELY* even exposed to the 'open air' (or more appropriately termed 'external still air' and sanatised workspace!).
I have never suggested to work in a dirty environment.
3)This is the most important point that I feel is overlooked - this was meant to be appealing to people who are put off by the idea of achieving the level of sterility that you guys are insisting on, because it sounds too difficult.
It has been laid out in simple terms, and because the chances of success are very high, and it's a very easy method to follow requiring very little equipment that can be found very easily, that it would change the perception of people who think mycology is expensive or confusing.
Please stop missing this crucial point. That was my reason for writing it.
My request is simple - if you are one of the people who is claiming that doing an LC in a still room environment on a clean bench with gloved hands is reckless, I encourage you to actually force yourself to try it, in order to overcome your anxiety and unlearn that fear, and your argument holds no value unless it is from personal experience.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
I will say that it is possible that open air teks work. It is also possible for me to win the lottery.
Dichotomy unbalances this argument, reducing your credibility. If your chances of winning the lottery are 95+% then buy me a ticket....
The reality is this tek works, for the reasons stated above, almost every time, unless you don't follow it properly.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I like clean LC. I hate contamed LC. I would rather have LC that I know has the best chance to be clean, than have one that someone thinks has a good chance of being clean. I don't care if one is perceived to be easier than the other.
This however is a fairly balanced argument and one that has equal merit to mine. It doesn't take into account the very high success rate of using my method, properly. I feel without hesitation, from my own experience, that every LC I make on my kitchen bench has the BEST chance of being clean. This confidence comes from seeing the results, with 100's of liquid cultures made this way with no problems at all.
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Pastywhyte said: If anyone thinks agar is hard, then maybe they should try finger painting.
Classic...! 
Quote:
Asura said: I may be wrong here, but there seems to be 2 kinds of people here. Those that like the process and those that just want to get some mushrooms. I'm not in a hurry.
There are two types I'm noticing - those that think inside the box, and those that think out.
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rawr123
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 27
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_]
#19848877 - 04/15/14 01:54 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hello, I've read this entire thread in one go.
I already do agar but I need to do LC because I want to start growing mycelium in substrate bags. Anyone know how to inoc substrate bags without using some form of liquid culture/liquid spores? I have these bag filters available that have polyfill as a filter. I am thinking the most sterile way to inoc these bags is through this polyfill filter with a sterile syringe needle that holds live mycelium LC.
I'm relatively successful with agar but I want to stop using jars and use bags instead.
Also I think that LC will colonize bags much better than say a piece of agar because when you shoot the LC into the bag it drips to many places inside the bag where the agar must grow from one physical location.
If I can grow LC completely sterile I think that would minimize contam risks with my bag filter.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: rawr123]
#19849102 - 04/15/14 02:49 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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--------------------
A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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_OttO_
Over Stimulated



Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Up Over
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: rawr123]
#19850752 - 04/15/14 07:46 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
rawr123 said: Hello, I've read this entire thread in one go.
I already do agar but I need to do LC because I want to start growing mycelium in substrate bags. Anyone know how to inoc substrate bags without using some form of liquid culture/liquid spores? I have these bag filters available that have polyfill as a filter. I am thinking the most sterile way to inoc these bags is through this polyfill filter with a sterile syringe needle that holds live mycelium LC.
I'm relatively successful with agar but I want to stop using jars and use bags instead.
Also I think that LC will colonize bags much better than say a piece of agar because when you shoot the LC into the bag it drips to many places inside the bag where the agar must grow from one physical location.
If I can grow LC completely sterile I think that would minimize contam risks with my bag filter.
I would start an LC in a clean environment with a clean agar wedge, and shoot a couple of test jars before you inoculate lots of large bags of substrate just to confirm it's clean and not waste your large bags of substrate. That would be the most failsafe way of doing this.
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gbux512
Stranger
Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 6
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_]
#19851873 - 04/16/14 01:16 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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So, i guess im a little confused on how this works. the jars are aloud to become fully firm, or are they kept all shaken up so that u can pour them out?
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: gbux512]
#19852619 - 04/16/14 06:53 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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you let them fully colonize then just b4 you spawn you break them up for easy pouring
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A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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SuperLuigi
Stranger


Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 19
Last seen: 2 months, 15 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_]
#20377584 - 08/05/14 10:15 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have tried an LC and it went clear and has some lil sphere that is about the size of a Q-tip head on it. It's been almost 2 weeks and it hasn't gotten bigger. Is that unusual?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 16 days, 12 hours
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: SuperLuigi]
#20379339 - 08/05/14 05:12 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SuperLuigi said: I have tried an LC and it went clear and has some lil sphere that is about the size of a Q-tip head on it. It's been almost 2 weeks and it hasn't gotten bigger. Is that unusual?
Test it!
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,227
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: SuperLuigi]
#20379531 - 08/05/14 06:04 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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The LC should be thick by 2 weeks. Probably a bacterial contamination unless you weren't agitating (oxygenating) the liquid. I would assume a contam and start again.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 16 days, 12 hours
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Rahz]
#20379587 - 08/05/14 06:18 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: I would assume a contam and start again.
Ahh yes.....gotta love that LC......besides being a complete waste of time, what is the point?
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Traveling0ut
Seeker



Registered: 06/28/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: _OttO_]
#20379736 - 08/05/14 06:53 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am monitoring this thread!
-------------------- “One’s destination is never a place, but a new way of seeing things.” – Henry Miller
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jsncrs
DYEL


Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart]
#20379813 - 08/05/14 07:13 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sweet tutorial. What sort of substrate would you recommend to use for a beginner?
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shamanamba
The Shaman



Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: jsncrs]
#20379996 - 08/05/14 07:47 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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It would be more *beginner friendly* to discourage LC's altogether...
-------------------- The Shaman
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,227
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: PussyFart]
#20380626 - 08/05/14 10:23 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ahh yes.....gotta love that LC......besides being a complete waste of time, what is the point?
It's an easy way to culture multispore. I've been using it for years -w- a silicone injection port and polyfill stuffed vacuum tubing for air exchange. Works great.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 16 days, 12 hours
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Rahz]
#20380661 - 08/05/14 10:35 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Ahh yes.....gotta love that LC......besides being a complete waste of time, what is the point?
It's an easy way to culture multispore. I've been using it for years -w- a silicone injection port and polyfill stuffed vacuum tubing for air exchange. Works great.
Sure it works great, when it doesn't contaminate.
Agar is better...you should graduate. With agar you can transfer away from contams...this makes it far superior to LCs....
And since no print or syringe is ever 100% clean, and LCs are the perfect breeding ground for everything not fungi related, I would say it's a piss poor method of culturing MS.....but that's just my opinion....I like a high success rate with as low of risk as possible, as should most cultivators.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (08/05/14 10:39 PM)
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shamanamba
The Shaman



Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: Rahz]
#20380682 - 08/05/14 10:40 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: It's an easy way to culture multispore.
So is agar. What makes agar superior is that it is also faster, less work, more dependable, and makes it easier to identify contamination. It's also more versatile than liquid culture. You ever tried to clone or isolate a strain with liquid culture?
Quote:
Rahz said: I've been using it for years -w- a silicone injection port and polyfill stuffed vacuum tubing for air exchange. Works great.
Just because something works doesn't mean it should be advocated for beginners. I've come up with some absolutely batshit stupid and impractical ways to grow mushrooms, but I wouldn't go writing teks about them titled "*Beginner friendly* method of fruiting through sheetrock into the next room over so you can just pick your mushrooms right off the wall" That would be asinine and would result in countless little dumbasses out there destroying the structure of their parents houses, not to mention increasing the likelihood of people getting into the hobby and giving it up after so many failures because they were using impractical methods.
But I'm just one of those clueless assholes preaching against LC's because its the cool thing to do so don't mind me.
-------------------- The Shaman
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture [Re: shamanamba]
#20381339 - 08/06/14 03:26 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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LC's are super prone to bacteria. Many "sterile" syringes will still contain a small amount of bacteria. That small amount of bacteria might not take hold on the dry outer grain in your spawn jar, but it will proliferate in the wet and sugary environment that is a LC. Think about it, when does bacteria spring up in grain spawn often? When the spawn is prepared too wet, and you don't get any wetter than *liquid* culture.
I loved LC. For awhile. Until I knocked up 80 or so jars with a "clean" LC and became a certified bacteria farmed one week later. Never again.
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