Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineMushroommanToad
The new guyhere...

Registered: 01/28/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Beyond the cornfields...
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow
    #5236842 - 01/28/06 11:00 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

This is my first post here, and until I get used to things I ask that you bare with me :grin: This is for all of you! It is far from complete, but I've been doing so much research and been through many rough drafts. My head feels like it will explode. Here it is enjoy!

Oh yeah... Comments, suggestions, and inspiration are encouraged!!


--------------------
...and she's buying a stairway to heaven.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroommanToad
The new guyhere...

Registered: 01/28/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Beyond the cornfields...
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: MushroommanToad]
    #5236871 - 01/28/06 11:09 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Mushroomman Toad?s
Useful Information for the Panaeolus Growers:
Newbie and Experienced Alike


A Foreword

The cultivation of any mushroom is fascinating to some, hence the many on-line communities of the experienced growers of all types. This community and interest of the hobby extends to new people every day (also know as the ?newbie? in the on-line communities). Like myself at one time, I was quickly sucked into the almost addicting nature of cultivation. It started out with the all-popular Psilocybe cubensis. After my craving of this was satisfied, the fascination grew to curiosity, and branched off to many different kinds of mushrooms. These included mushrooms such as Psilocybe cyanescens, Psilocybe azurescens, Panaeolus tropicalis, Panaeolus cyanescens, and delicious edibles as well! One mushroom drew me in above all others however, and that is indeed the Panaeolus.

When first pursuing this mushroom, I came quick to realize how confusing some of the information could be, even with myself being a now experienced grower of Psilocybe cubensis, as well as azurescens. Mainly it was the processes of pasteurizing substrates. It all seemed too much for me. Armed only with small patience for myself and the help of my on-line community of friends and experienced growers, I was able to successfully harvest the Panaeolus cyanescens on my very first try with almost no trouble at all (I must also say I avoided the pasteurization the first couples of grows). Needless to say, I think I can handle anything now.

This document isn?t aimed at the newbie of growing mushrooms. Only the newbie of Panaeolus. It contains all of the information I wish I had to start me out with Panaeolus cyanescens. I personally advise that you get the feel of the basic cultivation techniques Psilocybe cubensis, and maybe a little knowledge of bulk substrate before trying the Panaeolus grows. Terminology in the hobby is also necessary. With this being said, I continue?.

Panaeolus cyanescens Berkley and Broome
= Copelandia cyanescens (Berk. & Br.) Sing.

Indeed, the cultivation of Pan cyans (Panaeolus cyanescens) is a step up from the cultivation of cubensis. Not necessarily harder, but more care and consideration is needed. There are, for instance, some differences between the mycelium of Pans cyans and cubensis aside from both being dung loving. The Pan cyans mycelium is not as forgiving as the cubensis. It?s threads are very wispy and very fragile. Even, upon full colonization of a substrate, it looks as if it is not. The colonized substrate looks nothing like what cubensis does. It looks almost like contamination, and one would think that upon the first smell of it as well. When it is time to induce fruiting, one must know fresh air is important. You can get away with disregarding this factor with cubensis, but not pan cyans. The mycelium is extremely sensitive to the amount or oxygen (O2) and carbon dioxide (CO2) in its environment. If the conditions are not met, fruiting is unlikely to occur.

Substrates useful for cultivation are similar to ones used with cubensis. Pans will consume all of the common grains: rye, wheat, wild birdseed (milo, millet, corn, etc.), brown rice; as well as compost, straw, and dung. Unlike cubensis, pans need straw/ or dung as part of (most of) its diet in order for fuiting to occur. In other words, pans cannot fruit off of grain substrate alone, and must be transferred to a bulk substrate. They have been know to fruit off of cased rye alone, yet the yields (and the mushrooms themselves) were small compared to what can be seen using bulk methods. There are many methods that can be taken to produce compost usable for cultivation, however, I will not be discussing these, for I am not familiar with these ways.

Grain spawn (initial substrate) can be used to inoculate a bulk substrate of straw/ or dung, or composts based from straw/ or dung. Straw can be used as the single ingredient in the bulk, as well as dung. Some growers use a large percentage of their substrate as straw, for its favored colonization times. The downfall to using large amounts of straw is that if foreign spores get a hold on straw, then contamination will colonize the substrate just as fast. One must be very cautious when dealing with straw in open air. If you?re not taking the sterile steps you need to, then it?s very likely you are setting yourself up for failure. Yields are drastically improved when putting dung into the formula. This is one sought-after feature of dung, as well as its high contamination resistance (this does not mean you should not be taking the sterile steps). There are two ways if prepare the straw and dung. These are known as pasteurization and sterilization. Although many growers will scorn at the idea of sterilizing these substrates, it can be done (I personally have had many successful harvests using this method).

Stamets describes pasteurization simply as a process by which bulk materials are partially sterilized through contact with live steam, hot water, or dry heat (Stamets, p.394). The most common ways used today involve either a hot water bath or your household oven. Common sterilization involves the use of a pressure cooker, pressure canner, or an autoclave. The pressure needed for most grains and bulk substrates alike is 15 psi (pounds per square inch) and held at that pressure for the appropriate length of time. Temperatures range higher than pasteurization: 240 degrees F (10 psi), 250 degrees F (15 psi), and 259 degrees F (20 psi); whereas pasteurization lies around 160-180 degrees F.

There is an importance to using pasteurization over a fully sterile substrate. In most form of composts, including manure and straw mixtures (most composts are based off of this), there are several types of micro-organisms present. You want to kill them all except for one: Actinomyces are a thermophilic entity, meaning that it creates heat and can withstand higher temps than other bacteria and molds (micro-organisms). When pasteurization has been achieved the actinomyces will run through the substrate, colonizing if you will, preventing contamination from getting a hold. Mushroom mycelium, however, is able to devour these actinomyces at will ? they actually become another food source for the mycelium. (Mycota; of The Nook)

Again, crops can be achieved through sterilization of the bulk substrate. One must be cautious. If the substrate comes in contact with open air (unsterile air) then the results could be disastrous, especially if straw is being used. The main reason for this is the absence of actinomyces.

Choosing a fruiting container is easy. Anything you would fruit a cubensis substrate would be just as suitable. Take into consideration that fresh air must be exchanged more so than cubensis. The mycelium is sensitive to high carbon dioxide levels. Fanning an aquarium can become tiring at some times. The best fruiting environment are those that are almost hands-free. There are many set-ups found on the Internet. They involve a large chamber, such as a homemade plastic greenhouse, with humidity and fresh air being delivered from a humidifier. An opening near the bottom is recommended for the air to flow. It is common sense to do this since carbon dioxide is heavier than oxygen and will sink to the bottom of its container.

Re-thinking What We Have Learned:
Putting Knowledge to the Grow


So maybe you are understand things a little better. I hope this information is useful as it was to me. Now it is time to use the knowledge to your own grow. I will now take you through the basic steps of a grow using both pasteurization and sterilization methods. With common sense, sterile work ethic, and the entire plan of your grow in mind, then you have nothing to fear. I will run through the steps that I use, but keep in mind, there are many different fruiting formulas out there.

Initial Substrate (Grain Spawn)
If you are familiar with cubensis techniques (as you should) then you have already heard this part a hundred times before. I will not go into too much detail, unless it has to do with the pan cyans themselves. These methods to not stray too much from a cubensis grow.

The grain I use for the spawn is wild birdseed. This is favored due to it?s many grains, and more colonized grains mean more points of inoculation of the bulk substrate. Measure your birdseed for the jars which will be going into the pressure cooker. A basic formula for dry birdseed is only half of the container. Birdseed expands when water is absorbed and will take up space. Take the measured birdseed and dump it into a large enough pot. Submerge the seed in water (a few inches above the seed). Kick the heat on your stove on high until it starts to boil. When this happens, bring the heat back down to a simmer. Let the seed simmer for a half hour to 45-minutes, stirring occasionally. You will know you?ve let them sit long enough when you see grains that have burst open. It?s okay to see this, just don?t let a large amount of the grains to do this.

Find a suitable strainer or colander to drain the seed in. Wash the seed off under the sink to get the nasty stuff off. Let it drain for at least half an hour. Go watch TV or something. If the grains aren?t drained properly, the excess water could lead to fermentation of the grains. In a large bowl, mix vermiculite to a 2:1 ratio (birdseed to vermiculite). For example, if you have 5 pints worth of birdseed, mix in 2-1/2 pints of verm. Mix well.

Put the mix into your jars. If you plan to inoculate via syringe, a layer of dry vermiculite should be place on top. Put lids on as normal (make sure you have holes punctured) followed by a layer or two of foil so that proper water levels within the jars are not changed. Leave the jars for 90 minutes at 15psi (time starts when pressure reaches 15psi).

Let the jars cool. To inoculate, go through the regular steps you?re familiar with: spore print, syringe, grain-2-grain, etc. Remember to take sterile steps. Mark the dates on the foil and the strain contained within the jars (I enjoy keeping a log on my grows).

Let the jars incubate at temperatures ranging from 80-85 degrees F. Room temps work too, but colonization times are slow.

Pastuerizing Your Bulk Substrate
It?s fun to experiment with formulas. Any combination of dung and straw will colonize, as they will colonize on their own as well. Buy a cheap thermometer and a large pot. The size I?m talking about are the ones used for cooking large Thanksgiving turkeys in. Fill in up a little above half way with water and put it on your stove. Put the heat on high. The first sign of boiling, turn it down. Use your thermometer to get the temp anywhere between 160-180 degrees F. The perfect temp to use is 170 degrees F, but when it?s around these temps then it?s okay to put your substrate in.

I use a pillowcase to put the substrate in. I also pasteurize the straw separately from the dung (it?s not too much work). Fill one pillowcase full of dung, and one of straw. Submerge the straw with a heavy object (be clean though). Both the straw and dung should be held at around 170 degrees F for one hour. When one pillowcase is done, dump the water and start again. I throw the pillowcases in a clean Rubbermaid bin until the temps cool (usually overnight). The temps you should allow them to cool should be no greater than 85 degrees F.

With cleanliness in mind (I?m not sure if I can stress it enough), get all of the materials you will need together. It doesn?t matter what container and fruiting chamber it will go in, but whatever you decide to do, the substrate depth should be no deeper then 4 inches. Decide on how much of each ingredient you want. I fill a container to 3 inches, and mix in enough straw to bump it up to 4. Mix well. Straw helps the substrate colonize much faster. Mix in your grain spawn real well. More, the better, yet you don?t have to over do it unless you really don?t mind. Let the substrate colonize at around the same temps as before.

After the substrate is fully colonized, it?s time to case. I case using a basic 50/50 mix (sphagnum peat moss/vermiculite). You will only need an even layer of about ? inch depth. Let the mycelium come through the surface. At the first sign of growth to the surface, proceed to fruiting conditions. If you are fanning, fan at least three times a day. If your setup is automated, then you really have nothing to worry about. Pans fruit around 75-80 degrees F. If the conditions are met, pins usually come very fast.

Sterilizing the Substrate
It?s as simple as putting the birdseed into the pressure cooker. Place your moistened dung and straw mixture into jars (together or separate). Cook at 15psi for 2 hours. An even simpler method is as follows: mix together all of your ingredients (pre-soaked birdseed, vermiculite, dung, and straw) in a large bowl. Use more dung than straw, and enough birdseed to notice it with the mix. The entire mix should be complimented by vermiculite (2:1 ratio). All other procedures should be followed accordingly (mentioned above).

Things to Check Out
There are many interesting things to discover on the Internet. Look for things that would fit your needs, mainly an incubator (for your substrate jars) and fruiting chambers. Temps are important to mycelial growth. Proper temps improve colonization times. You will find something that suits you (look at Communities at the bottom). I also recommend looking at the fruiting formulas of other growers to find if it fits you.

It is not hard or difficult to achieve a harvest of Panaeolus cyanescens, and the methods will also work for tropicalis. Updates will come in time?

References, In-Text Quotes, and Friendly On-line Communities

Stamets, Paul. All Stamets quotes and information can be found in his book The Mushroom Cultivator. He is the master of myco. If you come across any of his books, I suggest you pick it up.

Mycota of the Nook. I never knew him. He is known in the on-line community called The Nook. He has much knowledge that can be found within the archives.

Communities. All very friendly, filled with good people?

www.thenook.org
www.mycotopia.net
www.shroomery.org



Happy growing everyone!
~Mushroomman Toad

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: MushroommanToad]
    #5237056 - 01/28/06 11:48 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

>>>>>>Mycota of the Nook. I never knew him. He is known in the on-line community called The Nook. He has much knowledge that can be found within the archives.<<<<<<<

You know him now.
Once upon a time agar :grin: = SixTango  :tongue:= Mycota :wink:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSnaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 6,109
Loc: blinks stupidly
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: agar]
    #5237074 - 01/28/06 11:52 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

^^^Now that I did not know:tongue2:


Very cool post....long but a good read thanks for sharing...I am getting ready for my first Pan Cyan grow... :thumbup:


--------------------


Atheist Chat

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: MushroommanToad]
    #5237603 - 01/29/06 04:33 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

:congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

                          Nice Job!


--------------------
Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time...
[

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGrib_iz_Pitera
<CrimsonPants>
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 247
Loc: NW Russia
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5237626 - 01/29/06 05:13 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

It's nice to start here with a lot of amazing info :thumbup:


--------------------
-Hey, what are doing here in the forest?!
-I'm..I'm just picking mushrooms..
-Look, he's  j u s t  picking mushrooms! Is that you who planted them?!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroommanToad
The new guyhere...

Registered: 01/28/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Beyond the cornfields...
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: Grib_iz_Pitera]
    #5237703 - 01/29/06 07:20 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you for all of kind replies, guys. And its an honor to meet you Mycota, er.. agar... Your wisdom is an inspiration.


--------------------
...and she's buying a stairway to heaven.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCubenisseur
Mad Props
Male

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1,392
Loc: Indian Land
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: MushroommanToad]
    #5237730 - 01/29/06 07:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Great read. I'm sure that this info will help me try my hand at pans in the near future.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOatman2000
-=Outa Space=-
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2,877
Loc: Planetary Nebula
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: agar]
    #5237872 - 01/29/06 09:07 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
>>>>>>Mycota of the Nook. I never knew him. He is known in the on-line community called The Nook. He has much knowledge that can be found within the archives.<<<<<<<

You know him now.
Once upon a time agar :grin: = SixTango  :tongue:= Mycota :wink:




ya know one of these days agar is gonna come out of the closet, and just tell everyone "HE'S JESUS"

i didn't know that either.... always got a suprise for us don't ya!  :blush:


--------------------
Spawning to COIR
:thumbup:  My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------

4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEonTan
bird
 User Gallery
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 468
Loc: very south
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: MushroommanToad]
    #5240050 - 01/29/06 08:37 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

At least one strain does grow on Grain(cambodia),and one grows on rye grass seed(australia).

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroommanToad
The new guyhere...

Registered: 01/28/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Beyond the cornfields...
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Useful Info for the Panaeolus Grow [Re: EonTan]
    #5266653 - 02/05/06 03:39 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Is that so Eon? If anyone has any cool pan reads I would love to see them. The only problem is... I'm starting to worry that I have every on-line document involving pans...

I hope this isn't true. I'll go crazy without an interesting read every once in a while!


--------------------
...and she's buying a stairway to heaven.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Questions on growing P. Cyanescens... Wysefool 2,865 5 01/06/03 01:17 PM
by hermes3
* . *DELETED*
( 1 2 all )
Fd3000 5,914 22 08/22/02 11:08 PM
by Zen Peddler
* deleted Anonymous 489 2 04/06/03 11:27 AM
by Anno
* need info for growing in trays........ mightyquin 675 2 04/14/02 02:21 AM
by Roadkill
* Psilocybe cyanescens dimitri211 3,629 4 05/09/01 09:29 AM
by Anonymous
* Panaeolus Cyanescens TheShroomHermit 3,313 12 01/21/03 02:56 PM
by Psychoslut
* Psilocybe cyanescens hudsonismss 3,222 4 07/16/01 09:46 AM
by psilocyber
* Psilocybe Cyanescens: Is it worth is?
( 1 2 all )
skylerj 11,112 27 11/25/11 09:45 PM
by 760Rollz

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, hamloaf, cronicr, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
4,962 topic views. 24 members, 127 guests and 76 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2025 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.023 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 12 queries.