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Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin

Registered: 08/21/05
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LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides
#5233244 - 01/27/06 10:05 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Is it actually doable? I know its theoretically possible but to the best of my knowledge it has never been documented. Of course youre yields would be low but who cares really if youre yields were low, you just created LSD . No, Im not thinking of making LSD Im just thinking out loud. I know there are many, many more hurdles along the way that would be much more difficult to solve then a simple precurser substitution nor am I willing to risk 30 years in prison at this point in my life.
Edited by Gratos (01/27/06 10:06 PM)
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Koala Koolio
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Gratos]
#5233523 - 01/27/06 11:15 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Yields wouldn't be low of it was done right. The problem is the starting material, and getting some form of pure LSA.
LSA extractions are generally shit. You get a whole bunch of alkaloids, none of which crystalize if they aren't pretty damn pure (something unacceptable in this kind of chemistry.)
But provided you had a good amount of LSA? Sure, just as good as having ET. Take a little KOH, and you've got Lysergic Acid (and some iso-lysergic acid to clean up). At that point, you're right on track for many synths... including shulgin's I believe.
You still need diethylamine, among many other things and equipment.
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Lysergic_Milkman
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5235048 - 01/28/06 11:57 AM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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Yeah you could do that, but it wouls actually be simpler to synthesize LSD from scratch than try to convert it from LSA.
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Koala Koolio
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Care to back that up? I'm no chemist, but from what I've read that statement is false. It should be just as easy to use ET as LSA. Perhaps you meant to say it would be easier than to make it from morning glory seeds?
The difficult part is getting any kind of pure LSA from the seeds. Once you have that, hydrolysis with KOH and you're right on track with so many published synths.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin

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I would be interested in knowing what the "start from scratch" comment means. Hom much more basic can we get?
Elgr, ever read the extraction presented in Psychadelic Chemistry and what are your thoughts on it? It seems to me that it can produce a very pure product if done correctly, what are your thoughts on it. Its not for someone with no prior experience in chemistry but to a 1st yr college chemistry student its not that hard. Most high school chemistry students should be able to pull it off without much real difficulty and a little practice.
Edited by Gratos (01/28/06 09:37 PM)
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fazdazzle
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Gratos]
#5236638 - 01/28/06 09:56 PM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Gratos said: Hom much more basic can we get?
One could basically build the LSD molecule from nothing, if one so desires.
LSA -> LSD is like making a white russian...which was delicious tonight.
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Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin

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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: fazdazzle]
#5236688 - 01/28/06 10:15 PM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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Im talking within the realm of probability and not possibility
Quote:
white russian...which was delicious tonight.
Yes, they are quite good. I wish it wasnt so late here or Id go pick up some Kahlua.
Edited by Gratos (01/28/06 10:17 PM)
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Koala Koolio
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Gratos]
#5236712 - 01/28/06 10:22 PM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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Don't believe I have... but I've read a lot of synths, so it is quite possible. Any link to it?
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin

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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5239553 - 01/29/06 06:29 PM (18 years, 2 days ago) |
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Well, no actually I dont. Its from MVS's book, Psyhadelic Chemistry (basic LSD enthusiac reading). I can type it in I guess but Im not too enthusiastic about typing in 3+ pages.
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Lysergic_Milkman
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5239684 - 01/29/06 07:02 PM (18 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
elgr said: Perhaps you meant to say it would be easier than to make it from morning glory seeds?
The difficult part is getting any kind of pure LSA from the seeds.
Yes, that is what I meant.
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Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin

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Ok, great. Thanks everyone.
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Koala Koolio
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Gratos]
#5239876 - 01/29/06 07:58 PM (18 years, 2 days ago) |
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Lysergic_Milkman, yeah. It really isn't a "kitchen chemist's" task like DMT and mescaline are. One of the reasons that LSA chem extractions are a waste of time in my book. People tend to get more unpleasant effects than if they just use the old fashion method that Wasson described.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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DocPsilocybin
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Quote:
Lysergic_Milkman said: Yeah you could do that, but it wouls actually be simpler to synthesize LSD from scratch than try to convert it from LSA.
Are you serious? How exactly do you propose you're going to make LSD from "scratch"?
It is possible, theoretically, to produce LSD. If you had a supply of ergotamine tartrate or, better yet, a pure culture of ergot fungus you could produce it just like everyone else who makes acid. Of course LSD is inherently extremely unstable and you're probably going to need a pretty good idea what you're doing in a lab and a lot of chemicals and equipment that might be a challenge to get.
Negativity aside there was a guy who did produce some LSD. I think I saw him on the layceum board. He had a pretty good handle on chemistry and a fair bit of lab equipment and even then he had many trials and tribulations.
If anyone is seriously considering making LSD I hope they have a really good handle on what they're doing. Nothing bugs me more than those people who think extracting the alkaloids from MG seeds will yield LSD. Argggggg!
Just in case someone is curious, here's a link
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml
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Koala Koolio
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: DocPsilocybin]
#5240976 - 01/30/06 01:36 AM (18 years, 2 days ago) |
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The reason I responded to this thread was because of a synth being done on the hive, when it was up... involving extracted LSA, diethylamine, and peptide coupling. I don't suggest that its practical, simply possible. Total synthesis moves farther down the practicality scale.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Asante
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5241058 - 01/30/06 02:46 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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I've seen a synthesis for lysergic acid in a textbook.
It starts with indolepropionic acid, which is hydrogenated in the pyrrole ring. Then the propionic acid arm is bent over backwards to form a tricyclo analog, becoming an internal ketone at the 4 position. You now have a ketone (can form a double bond later on) in the right position which you can brominate to an alpha-bromo ketone which will readily accept a methylamine derivative containing an arm which will form the upper part of the ring that closes the tetrahydropyridine ring and supplies a precursor to the carboxylic acid of lysergic. You then aromatize the phucker and voila, a mixture of the four lysergic acids (D,L,normal and iso), two of which can be converted to normal d-lysergic acid.
So it can be done, but its the scenic route rather than the straightforward processes of practical LSD manufacture such as:
R-C(=O)-NR'2 + LiOH --alkaline hydrolysis--> R-C(=O)-OLi R-C(=O)-OLi + 2 SO3 ----> [R-C(=O)-OS(=O)2-OLi]SO3 [R-C(=O)-OS(=O)2-OLi]SO3 + 4 HN(CH2CH3)2 ----> R-C(=O)-N(CH2CH3)2 (LSD)
The complicated formula is a mixed anhydride of lysergic acid and lithium bisulfate, with a second SO3 added to the tetrahydropyridine nitrogen. This, however, readily comes off. If you look at this you'll have five easy steps:
1..Cultivation of Ergot 2..Isolation of ergotamides 3..hydrolysis of ergotamides 4..producing a mixed anhydride of lysergic acid 5..reacting this mixed acid anhydride with diethylamine
rather than the twenty I recall the total synthesis to have.
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Konnrade
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Asante]
#5241088 - 01/30/06 03:11 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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Ugh...
I have a feeling I'm going to be overwhelmed by the complexity of this chemistry even after I've gotten my BS in chem.
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Asante
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Konnrade]
#5241457 - 01/30/06 08:29 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
I've gotten my BS in chem.
There's no need to call it BS 
But seriously, the only viable route (and I think the only route being used) is conversion of natural lysergic acid amides.
Basically there are two different methods of synthesis used: Reaction of a mixed acid anhydride with diethylamine and Dehydration of the diethylamine salt of lysergic acid
The latter method afaik is seldom used, and usually like so:
R-COOH.HN(CH2CH3)2 + O=C(imidazole)2 --> LSD + CO2 + 2 imidazole
The most common reaction, the mixed anhydride, has many faces:
R-CO-Cl R-CO-N3 R-CO-O-OCCF3 R-CO-O-SO2-OLi
According to Shulgin the Lysergic acid chloride reaction is the most advantageous in practice. As far as I know it's produced using thionyl chloride or phosphous oxychloride, Shulgin preferring the latter.
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Asante
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Asante]
#5241566 - 01/30/06 09:34 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Wow!
I mean WOW! 
If you like LSD then please grab this pic and spread it far and wide ^_^
For most people it looks impressively intimidating but to people in the know it's an outline of a really simple and straightforward synthesis of lysergic acid. The high pressure hydrogenation reaction in the beginning can be avoided by using an alternative reaction scheme. The sheer number of steps is a bit problematic, but no particularly expensive or exotic reagents are required throughout the reaction.
Seeing this I have to say: Yes. I think its very possible that a determined and able scientist could produce entirely synthetic LSD in a toolshed laboratory.
Still, it would be a LOT easier to gather ergot sclerotia from a bag of organic rye, use those for liquid culture and isolation of Lysergic acid amides (see attachment, please download if you like acid ) and then use the Shulgin process to make LSD
But us mere mortals have other things to ponder. Did you know one bale of straw can be made to yield one ounce of Psilocybin? Let the Mushroom Cultivation forums show you how!
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DocPsilocybin
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Asante]
#5241669 - 01/30/06 10:27 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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Hey Wiccan, what's your chemistry background? It looks like you've done a few chemistry classes
It's unfortunate that it's only fun to make illegal drugs!
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Konnrade
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Asante]
#5243767 - 01/30/06 07:48 PM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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So wiccan, what you're saying is that the synthesis entailed in your post uses no expensive or exotic reagents, and can be used to synthesize LSD from scratch?
Are these reagents scheduled, regulated, or watched?
The equipment for such a synthesis could be acquired, no doubt, far easier than a large quantity of ergotamine tartrate could be.
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moecat
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Konnrade]
#5244447 - 01/30/06 10:09 PM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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It's theoretically possible I guess, but I doubt it has ever been done.
Edited by moecat (01/01/07 11:20 PM)
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Konnrade
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: moecat]
#5245251 - 01/31/06 02:17 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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Well, perhaps one of the reasons it's never been done is because of the blatant illegality of it, and the lack of any financial reason to do so?
It may not be because it's not feasible, but because it may be more practical to stick with proven techniques.
Although I imagine it would require a well-equipped laboratory. However, for a person like me, accumulating laboratory apparatus is a matter-of-fact thing. It's a very fun and potentially useful hobby. For such a person, a synthesis from scratch might be possible.
I'll definitely be reading into this at a later date, when I've gotten enough of an education to better wrap my mind around it.
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Asante
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Konnrade]
#5245365 - 01/31/06 03:17 AM (18 years, 23 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Hey Wiccan, what's your chemistry background? It looks like you've done a few chemistry classes
I basically taught myself some basics of Chemistry, advancing through books with modest names to books with intimidating names  It's strictly on the hobby level. One of my main hobbies (fixations actually ) is wanting to know how stuff works.
Chemistry first caught my eye as a young kid, 8yo perhaps, watching the splendor of consumer fireworks my dad lit up. Some tubes gave beautiful colored fires, other overwhelming bangs and others took off into the sky to create beauty there. That DEFINATELY caught my eye and my father (with a sci background) fanned the flames of my initial curiosity. At age 12 I owned a Merck Index and it all went downhill from there 
Quote:
So wiccan, what you're saying is that the synthesis entailed in your post uses no expensive or exotic reagents, and can be used to synthesize LSD from scratch?
Indeed, you start off with Indole-3-propionic acid. Now this is a plant growth hormone which I just checked, and saw offered at a price of $1.000 a kilo, which really isnt expensive if you consider it will ultimately yield an ounce or two of LSD.
The specialistic cyclic compound you see probably has to be custom synthesized, which you can do yourself from chloroacetone, ethylene glycol and methylamine or something to that effect. The rest are just common run-of-the-mill lab reagents with thousands of uses each.
Tight spots would be the initial high pressure reaction and the reaction in liquid SO2 which probably requires a bit of pressure. Both can probably be ommitted by use of a slightly modified scheme. This is where the university siddhi's come in which you need anyway to fill in the blanks in this outline.
But, like I said, it's overly complicated compared to the lysergic acid amides route. Allow me to outline this one start to finish:
1..gather ergot (in the field or from a bag of organic rye) 2..aerobic liquid culture in an "aquarium" using a broth of water, sugar, apple juice and plantfood 3..scoop out the myclium, basify with aq. lye 4..extract with chloroform or ether 5..extract into aquous citric acid, then basify 6..extract into chloroform or ether 7..evaporate to yield free bases of ergotamides. 8..react with aq. KOH 9..react with diethylamine and phosphorous oxychloride in chloroform 10.purify your LSD
And voila: LSD from an even scratchier scratch than the total synthesis, and drastically simplified! Steps 1-7 are detailed in the document I attached 5 posts up and steps 8-10 are detailed in Shulgin's TiHKAL entry for LSD I linked to in the same post.
So its really not hard, a determined scientist ought to be able to acquire the knowledge needed to do it.
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Konnrade
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Asante]
#5245387 - 01/31/06 03:56 AM (18 years, 22 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: So its really not hard, a determined scientist ought to be able to acquire the knowledge needed to do it.
That's exciting news to me
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eVil_
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Konnrade]
#5245640 - 01/31/06 07:27 AM (18 years, 18 hours ago) |
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can you only use ergot harvested from rye? or can the ergot be harvested from any infect grain? because if it could, i once knew a guy who access to a small amount of ergot infested grains at certain times of the year. mostly wheat, barley, and triticale (which is a wheat/rye hybrid).
edit: usually in amounts <10g
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Edited by eVil_ (01/31/06 07:28 AM)
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Asante
Mage


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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: eVil_]
#5245663 - 01/31/06 07:38 AM (18 years, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
i once knew a guy who access to a small amount of ergot infested grains at certain times of the year. mostly wheat, barley, and triticale (which is a wheat/rye hybrid).
If that person also has a labnoratory you might want to give him a call 
Remember, if there's no lab there is no virtue in Ergot of Rye, in fact it is a poisonous medicine rather than a recreational drug.
Quote:
wheat, barley, and triticale
Ergot grows on all those but it is specifically referred to as Ergot of Rye because it grows on rye to a far greater extent than on others.
No lab = academic discussion Lab = STFU
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eVil_
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Asante]
#5245683 - 01/31/06 07:48 AM (18 years, 18 hours ago) |
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i always found it odd that there was not much security over the ergot considering its uses, but things can be lax at times in the world of academia. one of the guys jobs was to go through certain samples and remove all of the ergot which was then thrown away. if only i knew then what i know now...
-------------------- It's great to be here. I thank you. Ah, I've been on the road doing comedy for ten years now, so bear with me while I plaster on a fake smile and plough through this shit one more time. - Bill Hicks <Guest> has anyone ever heard of sprinklen a freshcow pattie w dust and hangin it from a tree in cheese cloth and watering it?
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Asante
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: eVil_]
#5245946 - 01/31/06 09:16 AM (18 years, 17 hours ago) |
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What *would* be interesting is to get hold of a producer strain 
To give you an example: In liquid culture a wild strain usually delivers 50-700mg ergotamides per liter. A producer strain however would deliver 2.500-3.000mg/liter.
To make the equasion more appealing: a small taters lab would use a bioreactor consisting of a 55 gallon drum

with broth, lets say insulated with blankets, warmed with an aquarium heater and aerated with a bubbler stone that feeds sterile air into the vessel. You inject a horse syringe of live culture inoculant (or spores) into it, lets say they got their ergot from a bag of organic rye, they multiplied it on agar, then made an agar/water smoothie and inject that into a water/sugar/applejuice/plantfertilizer broth.
After two weeks its harvest time, and out come 20 kilos of fresh Ergot of Rye, which is extracted. If you used a wild strain (like in the example) your crop would be 10-150gr ergotamides, yielding say 5-75gr LSD. Not bad!
If they had a producer strain however it would be 500-600gr yielding some 250-300gr LSD. Quite a difference for the same amount of work!
If you have a big fat huge piccard humongous LSD factory then you'd get a 20.000 liter bioreactor as used in antibiotics production which would fetch 25-30kg of LSD in one haul, a quarter billion strong blotters 
But seriously, all this is a nice little pipe dream unless you have a dedicated lab and at least one dedicated able scientist.
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moecat
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides *DELETED* [Re: Konnrade]
#5247665 - 01/31/06 04:52 PM (18 years, 9 hours ago) |
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Post deleted by moecatReason for deletion: redundant comment
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Konnrade
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: moecat]
#5247742 - 01/31/06 05:06 PM (18 years, 9 hours ago) |
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Well, that's certainly a good point 
But the mescaline and DMT extractions are time-tested and were around prior to the substances being made illegal, as were a number of synths for LSD.
I'm just saying that making a synthesis illegal is a serious impediment on the ability to perform further credible research. So it gets really hard to actually test out some hypothetical new synth. Since the existing ones are well enough available and their results are documented. There's more incentive to stick with the old ways than there is to risk trying some new way.
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Koala Koolio
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Konnrade]
#5247871 - 01/31/06 05:41 PM (18 years, 8 hours ago) |
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"And according to that logic, the extraction of either mescaline or DMT to a crystalline state is done because it's legal and financially makes sense?"
As far as the financial part... with a small scale thing like dmt and mescaline, you're spending much less considering equipment and all. For 100 to 110 max if you shop right, you could have 10 grams of dmt.
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SapphireCat
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5247932 - 01/31/06 06:09 PM (18 years, 8 hours ago) |
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ok this may seem like the most ignorant question ever but: why isn't Hofmann's process used? did he not pass down his information, or is it just so easy to mess it up and get an lsd spin off,way to expensive, or what is the reason that it's so difficult to make?
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Koala Koolio
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: SapphireCat]
#5247955 - 01/31/06 06:18 PM (18 years, 8 hours ago) |
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new synths emerge. Some might be better geared for the individual who can't get all these things legitimately. But also, it was 60+ years ago. If Shulgin didn't follow it, there must be a pretty good reason.
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Gratos
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: SapphireCat]
#5248103 - 01/31/06 06:57 PM (18 years, 7 hours ago) |
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Well, IMO at least, one of the reasons is that the DEA is not stupid and they have all their bases covered (of course it takes a while). They make the rules but the field is still playable.
Sorry for the bad analogy
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Konnrade
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: SapphireCat]
#5248185 - 01/31/06 07:11 PM (18 years, 7 hours ago) |
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Quote:
SapphireCat said: ok this may seem like the most ignorant question ever but: why isn't Hofmann's process used? did he not pass down his information, or is it just so easy to mess it up and get an lsd spin off,way to expensive, or what is the reason that it's so difficult to make?
I beleive I heard somewhere that Hoffman's laboratory notes have all been quietly edited, which may have been to keep the synth more of a secret.
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Koala Koolio
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Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Konnrade]
#5248249 - 01/31/06 07:20 PM (18 years, 7 hours ago) |
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"I beleive I heard somewhere that Hoffman's laboratory notes have all been quietly edited, which may have been to keep the synth more of a secret. "
Sounds like bullshit. Any source at all?
Why would he keep it a secret. He's still alive, there are tons of other synths, and as far as I'm aware, he has nothing against the production of acid, heh. I heard his most recent dose was a couple years ago... unless he did it in celebration of the symposium or his birthday.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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moecat
Visitor
Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 93
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides *DELETED* [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5248585 - 01/31/06 08:37 PM (18 years, 5 hours ago) |
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Post deleted by moecatReason for deletion: redundant comments again
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Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin

Registered: 08/21/05
Posts: 1,374
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: moecat]
#5248773 - 01/31/06 09:14 PM (18 years, 5 hours ago) |
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Quote:
moecat said: I tend to think the apparent success in extracting mescaline and certainly DMT has much more to do with the lack of relative difficulty of the process versus any LSD synthesis. It's not legal issues or financial motivation that determines how often these things are done. It's the required steps, experience, chemicals, and equipment that's the issue.
I completely disagree with you except when it come to the procurement of precursors. I believe the difficulty in procuring the precursors is the main difficulty in LSD production (equipment and its cost being a distant second) to the driven individual, there are many, most are above average intelligence and already capable of following a synth to success, although it will take some study. However to the above average driven individual, this is just a speed bump.
EDIT: My point is that for LSD there are many, many people smart people willing to experiment, learn and eventually succeed. Ive seen it time and time again. Actually, strange as it sounds I believe the main stumbling block to LSD production is the stereotype that its "so hard" and "impossible to do". If prejudices like this were not dropped we would have never discovered powered flight. If bias such as this are not dropped we will be forever raped by our laws that govern LSD.
Edited by Gratos (01/31/06 09:25 PM)
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Koala Koolio
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Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: moecat]
#5248782 - 01/31/06 09:15 PM (18 years, 5 hours ago) |
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Well, I was mostly commenting on the financial part for a small scale extraction. So, in that aspect the equipment and chemicals you mention are what I was speaking of.
And legal issues also tie in. You're much more likely to get away with going to the store and buying some naptha, or lye than you are acquiring ET or diethylamine.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin

Registered: 08/21/05
Posts: 1,374
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5248823 - 01/31/06 09:23 PM (18 years, 5 hours ago) |
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Quote:
And legal issues also tie in. You're much more likely to get away with going to the store and buying some naptha, or lye than you are acquiring ET or diethylamine.
LOL As Im sure you understand, that is the understatment of the decade.
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Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin

Registered: 08/21/05
Posts: 1,374
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5248860 - 01/31/06 09:29 PM (18 years, 4 hours ago) |
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Quote:
elgr said: "I beleive I heard somewhere that Hoffman's laboratory notes have all been quietly edited, which may have been to keep the synth more of a secret. "
Sounds like bullshit. Any source at all?
Why would he keep it a secret. He's still alive, there are tons of other synths, and as far as I'm aware, he has nothing against the production of acid, heh. I heard his most recent dose was a couple years ago... unless he did it in celebration of the symposium or his birthday.
Although Ive never made a 'hard and heavy' effort to to find a copy Ive also been told that its almost impossible to find the Hoffman Papers. Then again why wouldnt he have rewritten them? Who knows, I certainly dont.
Edited by Gratos (01/31/06 09:30 PM)
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Koala Koolio
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Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Gratos]
#5249087 - 01/31/06 10:13 PM (18 years, 4 hours ago) |
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I could've sworn I read about some huge project to archive and backup all the documents sandoz has had over the years. Was this one an exception?
Yes, I'm aware of the understatement. I'd hoped it would illustrate my point.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,792
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5249898 - 02/01/06 01:32 AM (18 years, 51 minutes ago) |
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Hofmann used the azide process.
R-CO-NH-R' + H2N-NH2 --> (iso)R-CO-NH-NH2 (iso)R-CO-NH-NH2 + HO-N=O --> (iso)R-CO-N3 (iso)R-CO-N3 + HN(CH2CH3)2 --> (iso)LSD (iso)LSD --alkali--> LSD
It is much more complicated than it should be and uses almost nothing but problematic chemicals and has losses due to side-reactions. A hifmann-synth lab is far more likely to blow up than a meth lab, thats just one of the reasons its never done anymore.
Shulgin uses the POCl3 route which is far cleaner and more convenient. There is no "magic" in the Hofmann synth except nostalgia.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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moecat
Visitor
Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 93
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Re: LSD from Lysergic Acid Amides [Re: Gratos]
#5251944 - 02/01/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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makes sense
Edited by moecat (01/01/07 11:17 PM)
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