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InvisibleRavus
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Reductions of gods
    #5214502 - 01/23/06 04:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

It has been my hypothesis of late that as humanity evolves and becomes more technological and enlightened, the numbers of God(s) we possess will decrease.

For thousands among thousands of years, humanity believed in polytheism, though they may not have called them gods. They personified the unexplained forces of the earth, worshipping each to help continue their own survival. As they became more advanced, they naturally evolved into the Classical Age, which did explicitly refer to their deities as gods, and created vast and elegant stories telling their tales and the creation of the universe. Almost every advanced society at one point was either polytheistic, or in the process of becoming polytheistic, whether it be the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mayans, Arabs, etc.

In a more recent twist, the number of gods was gradually reduced, and people began to lose their shades of gray and see the world as black and white. Inherent to this conflict is the reduction of gods, and the natural loss of religions like the Romans and Greeks possessed, because it requires an "Us vs. Them" attitude: Good vs. evil, God vs. Satan, whites vs. savages, Sophia vs. Demiurge, and so on. And what would fit such a savage change in the human mind besides the perception of one God, who is, ironically enough, always on the side of the people who created him?

Thankfully, in the modern day, atheism is sweeping the planet, and the transformation from one God to none is much quicker than the transformation from polytheism to monotheism. It seems to be the natural progression of the human race that the more knowledgable we get, the less God we need in our life, until the modern day. The death of God may not be for centuries to come, but when we look at the resistance monotheism first encountered when submerged into polytheistic societies, the current situation seems mild, and going at  the speed of light. (At least we're not being fed to lions, right? :smirk:) The internet is helping the spread of knowledge to the common man, and science is making such great leaps and bounds, that soon man will look back and think to himself: "Why did we ever need God in the first place?"


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: Ravus]
    #5214584 - 01/23/06 04:38 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I think its more like "the shifting of the gods"

I think the archetypes just change form. Now people worship money, beauty, movie stars, sports hero's, prestige, technology and bow down to authorities like science, doctors, governments, and the heads of their social clicks. These gods have become more acceptable to worship and bow down to in todays world.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5214606 - 01/23/06 04:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Some of us don't worship anything, though.

Personally, I don't believe in worshipping any sort of idol, whether it is an old man in the sky, or the latest Paris fashions. Worship seems sheepish.

Perhaps the "reduction of gods" is on a more personal than global level?

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: Veritas]
    #5214661 - 01/23/06 05:03 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

For sure it is more personal then global. People can kid themselves though and think they are not doing it in some form. Look at how many worship ideologies here as if they are the ultimate power and final authority. They have their lives run around by them as they are encoded with their own moral codes of right and wrong.

"This way of thinking is right"
"This way is wrong"

blah blah blah

I'm not criticizing it. I am accepting it as being a part of human nature and duality.

I can't think of one person who doesn't live under the guiding rules, principles or laws of something they have built up trust/faith in. To what extent people live in fear of breaking or deviating from them or not is probably the measure of how worship whipped they are.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: Veritas]
    #5214667 - 01/23/06 05:06 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Everything on a global level begins and ends on a personal level. What is civilization, after all, but the sum of all individuals comprising it?

And I can most definitely see it on the level of the individuals around me. So many youth, from teenagers to college kids and even the older members of Generation X, are open atheists nowadays, much more, it seems, than the older generations.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: Ravus]
    #5214678 - 01/23/06 05:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Monotheism goes back to Akhenaten of Egypt. Pantheism goes back to ancient India. Even atheism has existed in certain sects of Buddhism for a long, long time. I'm afraid your hypothesis is flawed.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: Silversoul]
    #5214699 - 01/23/06 05:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

God is dead. Long live God. :cool:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: Icelander]
    #5214701 - 01/23/06 05:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
God is dead. Long live God. :cool:



Amen.


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: Ravus]
    #5216426 - 01/24/06 12:52 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

false idols rule today probably more than ever. creating and realizing myths for what they are beats nihilism

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: raytrace]
    #5217047 - 01/24/06 09:17 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

raytrace said:
false idols rule today probably more than ever.




What's the difference between a false idol and, simply, an idol?

While we are asking questions to build further understanding, what types of "false idols" are you alluding to? What makes you think they are more active today more than ever?

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5217600 - 01/24/06 12:19 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

they are false idols because they are not eternal. why would anyone want to fight tooth and nail for something of no lasting value is basicly what they are saying when one talks of false idols. To someon who believes in a God it is eternal and will allways be there so that they can feel that they dedicated themselves to something that will never cease to be important. that is why belief in a God has inspired the greatest artistisans, musicians, hell Einstein even said his drive to understand God was his reason for writing the theory of relativity.

I am really sorry for you that you hate God so much that you have the BELIEF that God is some how the wrong conclusion to draw about our universe.

I do believe in God, though I hate ALL religions. This is where atheists are fools in my opinion. I get teh impression that they believe that to believe in God you must be religious. I am not religious. I live my life just the same as i always have(I just recently started to truly believe). but all the same to me God is real. No i dont believe the creation myths. Yes i believe in evolution(as a tool God uses instead of a randomized part of nature.)

You think God will slowly disappear as the human race continues farther into the future? Im pretty sure as soon as humans start to explore the stars religion will become even more important, as humanity once again is put in its place as a tiny infinitly small, and completely unimportant blip on the Universe Radar.

Of course i personally dont see our civilization surviving that long. theres about to be a war that will go down as the worst in our history, yes WWIII is around the corner its enevitable could be 5 years could be 50 or a 100 either way it wont be pretty. personally i think it will be sooner than later, but maybe thats just wishful thinking.

God is about being selfless, and when has anyone ever said that is a bad thing? this world is full of people who need help and everyone is so wrapped up in themselves that we dont care. God shows people that all of our vast wealth of knowledge, adn technology is all vanity in teh end while our brethren suffer. you may be able to justify not believing in God, but you will never be able to say that the Bible isnt full of important lessons about ourselves. And if the day ever comes when people are ALL treated as true equals(yea right!) then and only then will man cease to need God.

Also there is still the lurking question of wheather or not God really isnt just Aliens fucking around with teh early humans. I mean if you read the bible with that in mind you can reason out every thing man, I mean everything, cept maybe that big ass flood, thats just an exaggeration made by man I think. It probrobly just rained alot. anyways i ramble on way too much. Peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: blaze2]
    #5218522 - 01/24/06 04:52 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

they are false idols because they are not eternal. why would anyone want to fight tooth and nail for something of no lasting value is basicly what they are saying when one talks of false idols.




Because the alternative is just as meaningless, just as ephemeral. Whether you sit around as a spectator, or join the war as a soldier, this will all pass- the sun will die, all life will end and finally, at the end of it all, the universe will fade away into blackness.

Existence itself is a false idol. Why should we fight for our own survival, for the survival of the earth and our loved ones, when they're just going to die anyway?

In my opinion, the only false idols are those ones who we cannot be sure even exist- we may be praying into the sky and killing each other for a God that doesn't exist. That seems more false than any hedonistic or stone idol ever created.

"There is not enough love and goodness in the world for us to be permitted to give any of it away to imaginary things."
-Friedrich Nietzsche


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Reductions of gods [Re: Ravus]
    #5219003 - 01/24/06 06:38 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Quote:

they are false idols because they are not eternal. why would anyone want to fight tooth and nail for something of no lasting value is basicly what they are saying when one talks of false idols.




Because the alternative is just as meaningless, just as ephemeral. Whether you sit around as a spectator, or join the war as a soldier, this will all pass- the sun will die, all life will end and finally, at the end of it all, the universe will fade away into blackness.

Existence itself is a false idol. Why should we fight for our own survival, for the survival of the earth and our loved ones, when they're just going to die anyway?

In my opinion, the only false idols are those ones who we cannot be sure even exist- we may be praying into the sky and killing each other for a God that doesn't exist. That seems more false than any hedonistic or stone idol ever created.

"There is not enough love and goodness in the world for us to be permitted to give any of it away to imaginary things."
-Friedrich Nietzsche




I agree but that doesnt change the fact that to most of the believers on Earth a false idol is anything that is not God.

If you believe in God, and I do, then you start to wonder just how powerful and almighty he is. theres really only one logical way to look at the Bible as fact, and that would be aliens fuckin around with the early humans. If you think about it that way then yea your right even God isnt eternal.

but then theres always that nagging voice that slaps me in teh back of the head and says "God isnt even of our plane of existence" if you take that view of Him, then he just might be eternal.

I dont konw and dont care because either way its not the proving to yourself that God exists part that is important its really just the Idea of God. Sure i might be lying to myself, but that doesnt matter really. The idea of God is that he is pure Goodness, to counter the abundant Evil in our world. How can that be a bad Idea?

All the horrible things that get carried out in the name of Jesus or God or Allah, i can garuntee that if any of the above are real and watching us, then it breaks their hearts. Their message is pure, man and his need to worship these Gods in Religions to believe in them allow wickedness to twists and manipulates it for his own greed. God could stop it I guess, but he'd rather we learn ourselves or perhaps hes just waiting to take out all the evildoers in feel sweep armeggedon style. Who knows what the big guys thinking. and to me at least none of that is important.

I would not fight for an Idea, but for my family my friends those whom i love your damn right ill fight. without love why even bother living? and not just love for your own ass. Even though I love God i would not fight a battle for him, something tells me he doesnt need a puny human to woop ass. would i fight for myself? depends on the situation i guess, I like to say i only fight in rightousness but its definately a slippery slope to say the least. Mostly i just avoid figting.

one last thought for you man, you say EVERYTHING will come to an end huh? why do you assume that? sure everything WE know will end, but whos to say there wont be a universe II or even better who's to say OURS isnt universe II? Sure we have alot on our plate as humans (all our problems we made for ourselves by the way) that doesnt mean tha we shouldnt wonder if theres more. Do you honestly think that we know the smallest fraction of a fraction about our universe?

and your nitchze quote is good but wrong i myself have more than enough love to give what is deserved on earth, and in heaven. Not everyone on earth deserves to be loved however. To put love in God is to put love in all his creations, and nature itself as well, adn that is never wrong.

peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

Edited by blaze2 (01/24/06 06:42 PM)

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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Reductions of gods [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5220522 - 01/25/06 02:38 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

What's the difference between a false idol and, simply, an idol?
falsity

what types of "false idols" are you alluding to?
those that hide the truth

What makes you think they are more active today more than ever?
tv

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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Reductions of gods [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5229561 - 01/27/06 01:08 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

what do you identify more with, a mermaid or lakefinger?s avatar?

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