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Offlinecokaznrebel
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Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies
    #5218841 - 01/24/06 05:58 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Agar told me that you need new compost for mushrooms, but after reading many websites such as

http://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/PhaseII.htm

It has led me to believe I actually need phase II compost, which isn't already used, but pasteurized and released from ammonia.

Now I have been told by many of you that I need Phase I, but it says here,

"So why not just stop the process after Phase I and spawn the material? Obviously that does not work. We all realize that the mushroom does not like ammonia, so we continue indoors with Phase II composting."

Which one am I really supposed to use?

Do cubies like ammonia?

Edited by cokaznrebel (01/24/06 06:30 PM)

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OfflineEikel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: cokaznrebel]
    #5219002 - 01/24/06 06:38 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Hello there,

I'm a newbie at shroomery, but have cultivated food mushrooms by accident and intentionally several times (I do alot of composting and organic gardening).

Here's some info from another thread regarding what you ask:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5217743/an/0/page/2

And here's my take on it, last post in the topic (currently) is my thoughts on compost and innoculating with spores (only 4 days since I tried my first psilocybe "inoculation"):
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5213059/an/0/page/0

To put it simply, if cultivating indoors - I would pasturize some "phase-2" or "well-composted" material.

If outdoors - just dump spores/mycellium into your compost heap :smile:

Edited by Eikel (01/24/06 06:39 PM)

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Offlinecokaznrebel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: Eikel]
    #5219038 - 01/24/06 06:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I was mostly just wondering if cubies like high ammonia levels or low ammonia levels, as fresh compost has high, and fresh manure has high levels as well.

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OfflineEikel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: cokaznrebel]
    #5219133 - 01/24/06 07:07 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cokaznrebel said:I was mostly just wondering if cubies like high ammonia levels or low ammonia levels, as fresh compost has high, and fresh manure has high levels as well.




Are you talking about store bought compost? Or your own made compost?
My compost (home-made) has less than 0.1% ammonia content, mushrooms like it fine... I stopped buying pre-made composts, it's cheaper to get a bale of pea-straw and a bunch of manrure (plus your own kitchen scraps).

According to Stamets and Bob Harris's books - fresh manure should be soaked for a week before using to release the ammonia. Personally I "flush" (basically pouring water through them) my compost ingredients over a 24hour period and dump them into the pile - that also seems fine for mushies (should be able to tell you in a few weeks if cubenesis-specific mushies like this technique).

Edited by Eikel (01/24/06 07:08 PM)

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Offlinecokaznrebel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: Eikel]
    #5219155 - 01/24/06 07:11 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Eikel
This is Primo Substrate/compose from my local mushroom farm, who basiclly supply the us with fresh mushrooms.

Thier Phase I compost will probably be higher in ammonia than yours, but its bascilly the best stuff you can get.

I was told NOT to get phase II compost as its more broken down, but its also pasteurized and basiclly ammonia-free, and was wondering why I could just ask for this.

If i get the Phase I compost, how can I remove ammonia from it?
I believe you should only have .05% ammonia maximum, because ammonia kills mycealum.



Quote:

Eikel said:
Quote:

cokaznrebel said:I was mostly just wondering if cubies like high ammonia levels or low ammonia levels, as fresh compost has high, and fresh manure has high levels as well.




Are you talking about store bought compost? Or your own made compost?
My compost (home-made) has less than 0.1% ammonia content, mushrooms like it fine... I stopped buying pre-made composts, it's cheaper to get a bale of pea-straw and a bunch of manrure (plus your own kitchen scraps).

According to Stamets and Bob Harris's books - fresh manure should be soaked for a week before using to release the ammonia. Personally I "flush" (basically pouring water through them) my compost ingredients over a 24hour period and dump them into the pile - that also seems fine for mushies (should be able to tell you in a few weeks if cubenesis-specific mushies like this technique).



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OfflineEikel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: cokaznrebel]
    #5219196 - 01/24/06 07:22 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cokaznrebel said:Eikel
This is Primo Substrate/compose from my local mushroom farm, who basiclly supply the us with fresh mushrooms.




Yep - I can by pre-used "mushroom compost" also if I want, still prefer my own stuff though :smile:

Quote:

cokaznrebel said:I was told NOT to get phase II compost as its more broken down, but its also pasteurized and basiclly ammonia-free, and was wondering why I could just ask for this.

If i get the Phase I compost, how can I remove ammonia from it?
I believe you should only have .05% ammonia maximum, because ammonia kills mycealum.




What you're asking is beyond my knowlege to answer factually, my best guess is that either/or will work fine, mushrooms are similar to plants in that they'll yield based on what you put into them, less nutrients available = smaller yields.

If really worried about ammonia, just soak/wash the compost for a week, ammonia will flush out of the compost with the water. I think yet again (like contams) that it's more of an indoor cultivators worry, when you have an outdoor heap that you water regularly the ammonia flushes out into the soil (and enriches that, so you get double benefits!).

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Offlinecokaznrebel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: Eikel]
    #5219232 - 01/24/06 07:32 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I have made the decsision to go with PHASE II Compost, and I believe others should follow suit if they get a chance.

Here is why I believe that,

"The first objective is to pasteurize the compost substrate making it more selective to give the mushroom a head start growing through this substrate. The compost substrate is pasteurized to reduce or eliminate the bad microbes like insects, other fungi, and bacteria. This is not the complete sterilization but a selective killing of pests that will compete for food or directly attack the mushroom, yet minimize the loss of good microbes.

The second goal of Phase II is to complete the composting process. Since ammonia is toxic to the mushroom mycelium it must be converted to a food the mushroom can use. The good microbes in Phase II convert toxic ammonia in solution and amines (other readily available nitrogen compounds) substances into protein, the more specific food for the mushroom. Most of this conversion of ammonia and carbohydrates is accomplished by the growth of the microbes in the compost. These microbes are very efficient in using Phase I composting products, like ammonia, as one of their main sources of food. The ammonia is incorporated as mostly protein into their bodies or cells. Eventually these packets of nutrients are used as food by the mushroom." - http://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/PhaseII.htm


So my conculusion would state that Phase II compost is IDEAL for mushroom growth,

Phase III Compost is already used, and Phase I compost is too rich in ammonia.

Edited by cokaznrebel (01/24/06 07:57 PM)

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OfflineEikel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: cokaznrebel]
    #5219251 - 01/24/06 07:38 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cokaznrebel said:Phase III Compost is already used, and Phase I compost is too rich in ammonia.




I would beg to differ regarding "Phase I compost", as I stated already you're (hypothetically) talking indoor specific here, I have mushrooms growing fine out "Phase-I" as I type this.

I hope it's ok to cross-link to other sites... here's a thread where I posted some info about my composting process, as you can see from one of the pics, mushrooms (the food kind) are fruiting directly out of unpasturized unflushed manure/straw that I dumped ontop of my heap:

http://cannabis.community.forums.ozstoners.com/index.php?showtopic=11460&st=0

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Offlinecokaznrebel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: Eikel]
    #5219321 - 01/24/06 07:57 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Im talking about professional compost, he told me it has a ammonia content of around .5% BEFORE they turn it into phase II. All they do between phase I and phase II is turn the ammonia into MORE nutrients and pasteurize it. as far as i know, cubies dont need ammonia, they can only be hurt by it.

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OfflineEikel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: cokaznrebel]
    #5219341 - 01/24/06 08:03 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cokaznrebel said:
Im talking about professional compost, he told me it has a ammonia content of around .5% BEFORE they turn it into phase II. All they do between phase I and phase II is turn the ammonia into MORE nutrients and  pasteurize it. as far as i know, cubies dont need ammonia, they can only be hurt by it.




Fair enough mate, but there's no difference betwen "professional" and "amature" compsts apart from what the "pros" put in it. If you have room available making your own composts will be benficial to you for more than just mushroom growing (and more economical than buyng pre-made soil amendments).

Should also mention that the CoCo I used in the compost in the above mentioned link is pre-treated with Trichoderma, guess what? Mushrooms aren't even bothered :grin:. I think people should remember Indoor and Outdoor cultivation can be likened to Hydroponic vs Organic growing, they involve different concepts and benefits/detriments, what works in one may completely fail in another.

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: cokaznrebel]
    #5219392 - 01/24/06 08:12 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cokaznrebel said:
Agar told me that you need new compost for mushrooms, but after reading many websites such as

http://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/PhaseII.htm

It has led me to believe I actually need phase II compost, which isn't already used, but pasteurized and released from ammonia.






agar told you NO SUCH THING. :rolleyes:

You misunderstood. You don't want USED COMPOST SUBSTRATE.

You want P2 compost, that has not been used as substrate.

P2 compost is ready to go :thumbup:

Ammonia is TOXIC to mycelium.


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Offlinecokaznrebel
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Re: Phase 1 Compost, or Phase 2 for cubies [Re: agar]
    #5219410 - 01/24/06 08:17 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well you said not used, then 2 other people in the thread said you needed phase I, so whatever, im not blaming you on anything. I just have to explain to this guy again why im going back to what i was going to orignally get.

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