Home | Community | Message Board

Original Seeds Store
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 6 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding (updated 6-5-06 with F3 picture) * 9
    #5194890 - 01/18/06 12:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

This experiment is ongoing.

PF Albino crossed with Penis Envy = F1 generation. No albino or Penis shaped caps expected at this stage. The next step (in progress) is to self (normal multispore culture) the F1 spores to see if any recessive traits can be revealed. The F2 generation is where the real action is.

Interestingly, the F1 culture seems to be showing hybrid vigor with very aggressive mycelium growth and fast mushroom growth.

+ = mature

Spores from F1 generation selfed to produce F2 generation.

+ =

---------------------------------------------------------------------


And now a little bonus

PF albino crossed with Costa Rican cubensis. I actually did this experiment first so its a little farther along.

+ =

Backcross the F1 generation spores with the PF Albino monospore culture

+=

Although backcrossing did reveal some albino mushrooms, the culture overall is sluggish and prone to aborts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Method:

First I germinated a single PF Albino spore on malt agar to produce a monokaryotic culture. Dikaryotic cultures form clamp connections that are easily visible when magnified and this culture lacked these distictive clamps.

I am pretty lazy and I didn't want to spend time isolating more single spores from other cubes and then do several controlled crosses and hope for the best. I was also aware of a mechanism where a monokaryotic mycelium can become a dikaryotic mycelium by nuclear migration and not just at the new growth at the point of mycelial contact. Essentially the entire monokaryotic culture becomes dikaryotic by replicating and moving nuclei in a sort of a chain reaction through the already existing mycelial network. Sooooooo.......... here is what I did.

I put the monospore PF albino culture into a jar of sterile grain (grass seed in this case) and let it colonize almost completely. Every grain was covered with mycelium but it would need a few more days to get really dense. Then I made a fresh solution (adding just dry spores also worked) of normally pigmented cubensis spores (Penis Envy or Costa Rican), injected that into the nearly colonized grain and then shook the jar to mix. The idea is to deny any uncolonized substrate to the injected cubensis spores for colonization if it combined (mated) with other cubensis spores. In theory, the cubensis spores will germinate and some will combine with other nearby spores due to clumping, but most will combine with the PF Albino mycelium. Nuclear migration should then transform the entire jar of monokaryotic Albino mycelium into several strains of dikaryotic Albino X (Penis Envy or Costa Rican) Cubensis mycelium. There shouldn't be any room left for any significant amount of pure Penis Envy or Costa Rican dikaryotic mycelium to grow and later form mushrooms.

Edited by Workman (06/05/06 10:26 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLana
Head Banana
Female

Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Workman]
    #5194899 - 01/18/06 12:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Nice work...

Lana


--------------------
Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products
http://www.MycoSupply.com

The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies.
Visit us online or call us toll free

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleohmatic
searcher
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6,742
Loc: europe
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Lana]
    #5194927 - 01/18/06 12:55 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

how did you do that ?
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTrunkspace
Televangelist

Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 87
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: ohmatic]
    #5194962 - 01/18/06 01:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Wow.. very nice work, it's too bad the albino/PE seemingly lost both traits. Perhaps later generations could show both phenotypes. Interesting that the albino trait emerged with the Costa Ricans though. Fascinating, Workman.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewaixingren
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 2,644
Loc: SW Florida
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Workman]
    #5195039 - 01/18/06 01:33 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

great. :smile:


--waixingren


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleohmatic
searcher
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6,742
Loc: europe
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: waixingren]
    #5195059 - 01/18/06 01:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

hmm, why didnt you try to mix monocaryotic cultures of PE and PF ?
that's atleast what i would have tried if i had the equipment to do monocaryotic cultures.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 6 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: ohmatic]
    #5195108 - 01/18/06 01:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Currently I only have the one monospore culture (PF Albino). They are a bit of a pain in the ass to generate and I was looking for a down and dirty short cut to get some F1 material. I am doing a multispore self cross with the F1 (PE x Albino) but I am considering putting the extra effort into generating several F1 lines for controlled crosses. The ultimate goal of the PE x Albino work is to generate an Albino PE.

I was suprised at how normal the F1 PE x Albino mushrooms look. Since both strains are mutated in some manner you would expect at least some problems with crossing them. Apparently Penis shaped caps and Albinism are both recessive traits. I expect the F2 generation to be filled with monsters, but we shall see.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Edited by Workman (01/18/06 02:13 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTrunkspace
Televangelist

Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 87
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Workman]
    #5195212 - 01/18/06 02:20 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Keep us updated, I can't wait to se the F2 PE/Albino generation.  :thumbup:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePinback
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 836
Loc: Europe
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Workman]
    #5195256 - 01/18/06 02:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Very interesting. For how long did you incubate the jars after you injected the spores?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShdwstr
FSRCanada
Male

Registered: 02/17/01
Posts: 2,156
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Workman]
    #5195315 - 01/18/06 02:59 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Next step is to cross a SRA and PE and get a 3 foot tall Penis...
Now that's something to ENVY :lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 6 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Pinback]
    #5195334 - 01/18/06 03:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Very interesting. For how long did you incubate the jars after you injected the spores?




About a week, but the spores were really fresh. I'd probably go at least 10 days with older spores that might take longer to germinate. Nuclear migration may continue after placing in a fruiting tray, but I didn't see that as a problem.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblearmedia
Dikaryon

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 169
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Workman]
    #5196150 - 01/18/06 06:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Workman -

I'm sure many here would like to hear your method of single spore isolations. Please share your secrets, if you are willing.

- A

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblackout
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: Shdwstr]
    #5197860 - 01/19/06 03:26 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shdwstr said:
Next step is to cross a SRA and PE and get a 3 foot tall Penis...
Now that's something to ENVY :lol:



Too right!
It is good to see 2 such distinct strains so the results are really obvious. Many were doubting Rogers crossings since it is hard to see the difference, hopefully this will sway the doubters and encourage more experiments.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleohmatic
searcher
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6,742
Loc: europe
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: armedia]
    #5197862 - 01/19/06 03:30 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

armedia said:
Workman -

I'm sure many here would like to hear your method of single spore isolations.  Please share your secrets, if you are willing.

- A




hes got a lab to work with, and that is what you need in order to create monocaryotic cultures, a lab.

no way to do it at home - therefor there are no secrets.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblearmedia
Dikaryon

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 169
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: ohmatic]
    #5197879 - 01/19/06 04:04 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Ohm -

I was being ironic when I used the term "secret". But I disagree that single spore isolations can't be done at home. I think a fair number here have "labs" of one kind of another in their homes, or elsewhere. The method may require some fancy equipment, but it is not that complicated.

The traditional method involves doing serial dilutions of spore suspensions on to agar, observing individual spores or colonies on the plate through a high power microscope, and transferring true monokaryons to a clean plate. I was merely curious to know the specifics of Workman's method.

Peace
A

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblackout
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: ohmatic]
    #5197904 - 01/19/06 04:56 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ohmatic said:
no way to do it at home - therefor there are no secrets.




I thought it was possible too, I think there is a small bit in TMC about it. Wasnt it selecting strands that show no splitting/branching?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: blackout]
    #5197952 - 01/19/06 05:53 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Nice stuff workman. The PE6 displays much the same results. It's a cross of texan and PE, but most fruits look normal, while occasionally a flush comes out that looks like pure PE.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblackout
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5197983 - 01/19/06 06:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Roger, if you clone a PE looking shroom from a PE6 grow, do they all end up looking like PE. Also do you notice the difference in effect that Ryche Hawk mentions with normal PE, i.e. do the PE6 shrooms have the same wavy high, the normal ones and/or the PE looking ones.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCyano
Stranger
Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 89
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: PF Albino and Penis Envy Cross Breeding [Re: blackout]
    #5198629 - 01/19/06 11:36 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

If a Cubensis is a Cubensis, why do different strains refuse to mate with each other? Does the fact that one needs to perform these complicated procedures to cross two strains not prove that not all Cubensis strains are alike?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblearmedia
Dikaryon

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 169
Single spore isolates [Re: blackout]
    #5198671 - 01/19/06 11:46 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

It depends upon whether you isolate before or after spore germination. You can visualize individual spores in the scope immediately upon dilution and place the on new plates, or wait until colonies germinate, look for the absence of clamps, and transfer those colonies (which is what Workman apparently did).

You can also work out the appropriate number of dilutions from a stock spore solution that will give you so many spores per drop.

Here's one good method: http://ejournal.sinica.edu.tw/bbas/content/1997/1/bot381-06.pdf

- A

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Re: Cross Breeding? ShroomAngel 1,015 3 03/14/01 07:21 AM
by Humidity
* Crossing two strains IS possible..Heres how...
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
BlueJay 35,243 96 06/01/15 10:34 PM
by God25
* Breeding
( 1 2 all )
absoluteZero 3,986 28 12/21/01 02:29 PM
by kingkc
* Re: Can this be Sclerotia on my PF casings? psylohassee 1,213 5 04/17/01 10:17 AM
by CLuB99
* Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic? mycofile 3,271 8 12/15/99 08:52 PM
by aaron
* Albinos? (pics) UnclePimpy 2,371 10 02/28/02 05:20 PM
by girlskater
* Re: Mushroom Strain Improvement and Breeding? Ripper 4,890 10 02/10/00 07:01 AM
by Anonymous
* Cross Breeding...Anyone know how to start your own strains? du_Rag_scotland 888 3 01/23/03 11:45 AM
by Raadt

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
32,450 topic views. 0 members, 5 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.