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Offlinedelysid
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Registered: 10/04/01
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: ArchDruid]
    #519669 - 01/13/02 05:18 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

ArchDruid: i like that theory but seratonin in not psychedelic and acording to "dmt : the sprit molecule" dr. rick strassman did test with seratonin for years and came to the conclusion that DMT was a better canidate for that role of what your calling a nervous system and what he is calling a spirit.

i think your theory is very interesting.


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"oh the colors....where am i?"

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Offlinechargrt
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Registered: 03/13/01
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: delysid]
    #519691 - 01/13/02 05:42 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I believe the best current answer we have to this diabolically taxing question was provided to us by the late, great Terence McKenna :)

http://www.deoxy.org/mushword.htm


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Invoke the One together, so Both may disappear.

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InvisibleKid
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #519735 - 01/13/02 06:31 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

> Anyone heard any good ideas why psilocybin is made by plants?

Does it necessarily serve a function?
Considering that we don't know why life exists, I think it would be tough to draw conclusions about why mushrooms produce psiloc(yb)in.

> Is it really just for our benefit?

Who told you that?

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OfflineSpaceManSpliff
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Kid]
    #519799 - 01/13/02 07:52 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

As a cynic, I would say it is either an accident of evolution or simply no longer needed by the plant.

Look at all the unneeded organs and compounds in humans and other animals. Eye type structures in deep sea creatures that never see light, apendix in humans etc.


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"Not happy with your life? Hate your job? There is a support group for that, it's called EVERYONE, we meet at the bar everynight."

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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Kid]
    #519980 - 01/14/02 12:24 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

"Does it necessarily serve a function? "

Organisms don't usually waste energy producing pointless substances - otherwise they die.

"Who told you that"

No-one "told" me anything. Humans love taking it. That appears to be it's only use. It's doubtful it helps the plant in anyway - if we go by the sheep, animals will eat it to the exclusion of any other food source.

Do you know of any other reason psilocybin is produced? If you do, bring it on.




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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineHB
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Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 42,528
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #520095 - 01/14/02 03:57 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

just because shrooms may be a poison does not mean they are not an enjoyable poison ...

sure you'd think the word poison would ALWAYS mean bad but realize how much you enjoy good trips ...

or the word poison really comes into play if you have a bad trip, which nature probably "intended" for all the "trips" to be

i dunno, just my thoughts. it's all like asking why marijuana contains THC ...

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OfflineMan
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Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 63
Loc: Canada, eh
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: HB]
    #520296 - 01/14/02 09:48 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Theres one thing psilocybin does. It makes the dominant (intelligent) life forms on this planet ensure its suvival by growing it. It even makes us make forums on the internet so people can tell other people how to grow them and grow them better. It even makes us collect spores and sell them to others spreading there seed. A symbiotic relationship.

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InvisibleKid
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Posts: 2,365
Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #520304 - 01/14/02 09:56 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

> No-one "told" me anything. Humans love taking it. That appears to be it's only use.

That's backwards reasoning. I'll give you an example: Humans love consuming alcohol. Therefor, the process of fermentation only exists to serve humans.

Or even better: Humans love consuming cows. Thus, cows reproduce in order to be turned into hamburgers.

> Do you know of any other reason psilocybin is produced?

Maybe it's an accident? No, I don't know. My whole point was that we don't even know if it serves a purpose, which you're assuming.

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OfflineKrendle
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #520607 - 01/14/02 03:27 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Moving to General Questions--this is a mushroom website folks :)


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First person to PM me with a truly witty sig gets to see their words at the bottom of my posts :wink:

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Invisiblesupercollider
superconducting

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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 1,234
Loc: Waxahachie
Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #520776 - 01/14/02 06:30 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Mushrooms are a super-evolved being, and they know that by producing psilocybin, they can put themselves in the good graces of humans. The humans will then spread the spores and propagate the shrooms, insuring the survival of their species.

This theory is basically borrowed from Terence McKenna, and I don't necessarily believe it myself. It's plausible though.

*Ewps, I hadn't seen Man's post at the time I made this one.*


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Supercollider? I just met her!

Edited by HateCamel (01/14/02 06:32 PM)

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InvisibleKid
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Krendle]
    #521042 - 01/14/02 10:19 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

That's not the example of backwards reasoning that I provided. The example I provided was analogous to your argument about why mushrooms produce psiloc(yb)in. The example you've just provided, is NOT analogous.

Also,for the sake of argument, if you're inclined to follow the theoretical framework of evolution: perhaps the environmental cues which caused certain species of mushrooms to produce psiloc(yb)in no longer exists. Though producing psiloc(yb)in doesn't serve a function any longer, it's not maladaptive (mushrooms don't die off because they produce it). Thus, there's no necessity for mushrooms to STOP producing psiloc(yb)in.

That's just for argument's sake, but it makes sense, and mirrors evolutionary theories which already exist (in other words, I'm not just making arguments up off the top of my head, if that will make you think any more about it).

ps... I'm putting this as a reply to Krendle because if I try to reply to Alex123, nothing comes up in the "In response to:" box...

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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Kid]
    #521303 - 01/15/02 05:31 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

to the fuckhead - 'mushrooms arent plants.'
mushrooms are fungi - fungus is by definition - plant without chlorophyll or green coloured matter, leaves or stems.


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OfflineNextGenHippie
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Registered: 03/30/01
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Loc: MD, USA
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #521326 - 01/15/02 06:40 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I wish I were a scottish sheep. :smile:
Ach,  Baa Laddie, Baa!


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[pot]Think left and think right[pot]
[pot]and think low and think high[pot]
[pot]Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try[pot]
-Dr. Seuss

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OfflineArchDruid
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: delysid]
    #521914 - 01/16/02 01:06 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Delysid - Just thought I would mention that I really apreciate your kind words about my theory, most just laugh at me. While I know that seratonin is not psychoactive, I was making the comparason as to there similar function and chemical makeup, not there effect. But seriously thanx again, I actually believe that shit though, It can be quite disturbing though, I picture them as little elves everytime I eat them now.
DMT is another great example, I think the same theory applies to DMT carrying plants as well.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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OfflinePeyotl
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Registered: 12/05/01
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: ArchDruid]
    #522607 - 01/16/02 03:34 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

the defense mechanism thing is convenient but doesnt hold water. first off, what did the shroom say?' hey these fuckin pigs are eating the shit outta our asses so lets start producing a potentilly noxious substance to deter them'? mushrooms are the fruit of the fungus, so why does the fungus produce psilo containig shrooms when up till that point therers no psilo in the cake?


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Offlinetoo_many_weirdos
it's a jungle inhere
Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 517
Loc: Ithaca, NY
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Peyotl]
    #522793 - 01/16/02 07:21 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

No, the mushroom did not make a concious (sp?) decision to start producing that "potentially noxious substance".
It's called evolution and natural selection.
over millions of years, through random genetic mutations, some shrooms produced a little psiloc(yb)in. These mushrooms survived better and longer than the ones without psiloc(yb)in, and so the non-producing mushrooms died out.

also, the cake does produce alkaloids long before the fruiting bodies appear.

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OfflineUrQuattro
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Registered: 02/02/01
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #522806 - 01/16/02 07:27 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

to the fuckhead - 'mushrooms arent plants.'
mushrooms are fungi - fungus is by definition - plant without chlorophyll or green coloured matter, leaves or stems.




Ummm......NO. You see, there is this little thing called the Kingdom-Phylum-Class-Order-Family-Genus-Species type of classifying life. Kingdom represents the most fundamentally different type of life around. Plants are in one, Animals are in another, blue-green algae are in another, and guess what - Fungi are in a completely different kingdom. Therefore, they are a completely fundamentally different form of life.

Now, here are a few thoughts i have had: 1. The actual fungus that appears above ground is only a small part of the overall being. It can be considered the "fruit" of the fungus. Plants that produce fruit use the fruit to have animals eat them, along with the seeds (spores in the fungus world, of course), which then pass the seeds, generally undigested, through their bodies and distribute them to locations which otherwise wouldnt receive that genetic information. So, if one considers that animals (including humans) receive psychoactive effects from mushrooms, it is possible to consider that the psylocybin mushrooms are there to be eaten, and to subsequently spread genetic information through animal ingestion. HOWEVER, i am unfamiliar with the potency of spores once eaten and defacated. So, therefore, psylocybin would be an evolutionary aid to the mushroom to spread its genetic information to new areas.

2. Another idea is that psylocybin DOES serve some neurotransmitter-type purpose in the mushroom itself. Since the mycelium also contains psylocybin, it is safe to say that it isnt necessary for only the mushroom itself to posess in order to fulfill its genetic goal... It could even form a system of chemical communication from one mushroom to another within the same mycellium community. Or perhaps even a consciousness transmitter...

Which then leads in to the next idea:

Mushrooms have a symbiotic relationship with humans/animals, and not just for genetic distribution. Just as dogs and humans have a symbiotic relationship, it might be possible to think in terms of mushrooms sharing their consciousness and experiences with humans and other animals through the transmission of psylocybin.

Many of us have had spiritually expanding experiences using these fungi. In addition, there is evidence to show that they can even enhance abstract reasoning (this is more from my own experience, along with people i have talked to, and with a reference from the food of the gods, as well as an extrapolation from "the illuminati papers" which referenced the longest study on LSD which showed an average increase of 10% in the subjects' IQ).

Then, of course, one could consider that nature is trying to send a message to animals and humans to return a balance, or simply to expand consciousness itself.

I suppose, that if one considers the universe to be self-aware, or at least in the process of becoming self aware, and then the holographic universe could come into play, its possible to say that the earth is just a single cell in the entire entity that is the universe.

So, psylocybin mushrooms might act as a consciousness-catalyst...

OR, continuing the holographic universe theory. Humans have a growth and behavior analogous to viruses/bacteria. Some of each of these have formed symbiotic relationships with their hosts, but since humans left the vegetable type mind behind and are focusing more on the animalistic and dominator type mind more, this symbiotic relationship has become a parasitical relationship....

So, perhaps the universe/reality/whatever it is, is simply trying to use psylocybin to form a symbiotic relationship again. If one considers that each species is important, then having humans that are symbiotic with their environment would be beneficial to the earth, other species of life, and the universe as a whole.

So, if this last supposition is possible, then its possible to extract from that the idea that psylocybin is a "cure" for the planet, not to rid it of the human beings or animals, but to simply help them form a symbiotic relationship. Since consciousness gone awry and ego's driven beyond control end up dominating others and forming parasitic relationships, psylocybin ends up negating these characteristics, and rebalance consciousness itself....

But anyway, i could go on for pages, but im just touching on a few different ideas that i have had....


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True wisdom is the knowledge that nothing is impossible except for absolute knowledge.

Edited by UrQuattro (01/16/02 07:39 PM)

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OfflineArchDruid
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Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: UrQuattro]
    #523121 - 01/17/02 02:08 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Thats exactly what I was saying, I think they're trying to communicate with us. I never thought they might be able to communicate to eachother, thats even more wierd to think about.
I personnaly think of them as little fairy people who became stationary over the years (like the ent's in the second book of Lord Of The Rings), yet they still live and are conscious.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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OfflineFood
---Beast---

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 18 years, 24 days
Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: UrQuattro]
    #523193 - 01/17/02 04:54 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

That was one excellent post UrQuattro.
To simplify the cause of the existence of the ability of shrooms to produce Psilocybin down one or two assumed historical (and themselves simplified) environmental conditions is foolish in my view .


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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-

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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2,138
Loc: new england
Re: Why do shrooms make psilocybin? [Re: Murple]
    #523195 - 01/17/02 04:59 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

> If you wanted people to make up meaningless bullshit, you should've just said so.


its called useing you imagination murple, if that's meaningless to you then you have my pity.


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Growing anything is good for the soul

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