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 kaniz
That one, overthere.
Registered: 07/23/04
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Loc: Ontario
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 You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? 
#5184847 - 01/15/06 07:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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So, the other night I told a friend of mine - I like you best, when you are simply yourself.
My friend took offence to this, and then kept pressing at me to further explain it, and basically took it as an insult and ended up being mad at me.
Would you take a comment like that as an insult? or as a compliment? as it was meant as a compliment.
It was a "I like you for who you are" statement, and theres not a need to be trying to be something that you are not.
Edited by kaniz (01/15/06 07:31 PM)
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moog
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: kaniz]
#5184909 - 01/15/06 07:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your friend probably took it as telling him that he was putting on a fake personality.
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 michael_lifshitz
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: kaniz]  1
#5184914 - 01/15/06 07:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, I think I would take it as a compliment and just feel very close to whoever told me that.
But under certain circumstances it could definitely seem to imply that the person is veiled with illusion. And maybe they wanted you to explain how you felt they veiled their true person? It certain implies something along those lines.
It also means wonderful things.
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Ramuh
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: kaniz]
#5184926 - 01/15/06 07:46 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would take it as a compliment, with perhaps certain underlying messages.
Overall I would say that it is mainly a nice thing to say. It means that you like the person for who they are, and they should be able to be comfortable and close to you due to that.
However perhaps he took it as saying something more along the lines of, 'I don't like the way you are acting lately, and I think you should act like yourself.' Perhaps he took it in this sorta direction.
I think most eveyone would take that as a compliment though. I would be happy to know that someone likes my very own personality.
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Radio is down for a day or two to transfer all my music, and do some other work.
"Light, coming from my mind. We are one, the night has just begun"
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DankAne
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: Ramuh]
#5185677 - 01/15/06 11:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would have to agree with Ramuh after experiencing this post.
I would be extremely happy if someone said that to me.
If I wasn't happy with myself, I might intrepret this a different way.
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Cherk
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: kaniz]
#5185691 - 01/15/06 11:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is anyone ever not his or her self?
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I have considered such matters.
SIKE
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DankAne
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: Cherk]
#5185828 - 01/16/06 12:50 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think sometimes people aren't comfterable with that. I just feel like I see it so many places, people know each others intentions but we don't acknowledge it for some reason.
Its like some people don't acknowledge the fact that we are all on the same page. We understand each other. That's all there is, all there ever will be each other.
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alsey
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: kaniz]
#5186140 - 01/16/06 05:00 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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he probaby took it as you saying he wasn't being himself. if someone told me that, i may not be offended but i'd probably feel uncomfortable. even if you didn't mean that, the statement still implies that sometimes he isn't himself. i would take it as a compliment but it could easily be misunderstood, as in your case.
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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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kaniz
That one, overthere.
Registered: 07/23/04
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: alsey]
#5186297 - 01/16/06 08:06 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, I think everyone - including myself. Puts up a bit of a false front at times that we feel uncomfortable, or insecure, or out of place. Its a self-defense to prevent us from getting hurt.
However, as we get to know people - and earn that trust, that front will slowly start to fall to the side, and get to know the people behind it.
To get a bit geeky about it. It's like, a internet fire wall - you dont trust all the other people out there, so you limit what they can get at, limit what they can see - but, if you have someone in like, your 'trusted connections', they suddenly get much more access to you - and can see what you really are.
Personnaly, I try and 'just be me' as often as possible. Not to say that that guard doesnt go up now and then. But, I try to just be me - and I've often had people tell me thats why they like me. "You're just you, and I like that".
My friend, all around is a good person - I think. When he drops the bullshit, when he stops being so damn insecure and trying to hide it. He really is a good person. However, now and then - usually if he seems to feel threatened. This really ugly, 'better than everyone else' attitude pops up, and also becomes really negative and cynical. He tries hard to be something he's not (ie: better then everyone else), and well - its rather ugly.
But, when he puts all that aside - and is just himself, he's a very kind, nice and caring person. He just needs to put that bullshit aside.
It's someone I've known for over a year now, so its just a "I've been around you for a year now - alot, you dont need to try so hard, you can drop the bullshit and simply be you - thats why and what I like you for". The act he puts up in some situations - which I truely feel is not 'him', is well, damn ugly.
I think he may feel a bit lost, a bit insecure and unsure of himself. To compensate for this, he gets up on a high-horse to try and make him feel like hes' better than those around him.
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DankAne
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: kaniz]
#5187114 - 01/16/06 01:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Which would explain why he took that statement the wrong way, he's not comfortable?
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: Cherk]
#5187792 - 01/16/06 04:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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People are not themselves MOST of the time! People assume and hide behind 'personas' which are masks, occulting true personhood. A certain amount of persona is necessary, the difficulty is when people become so identified with them that they become totally identified with their mask[s].
For example, a former colleague who was a therapist had a state trooper who could not perform sexually unless he kept on some part of his uniform (yellow striped blue trousers, gun belt, etc.) He felt inadequate without the symbolic vestments which commanded respect from people. In South Florida, many many women (some cultures in particular are largely to blame) are soley identified with their sexual personas. They come to their child's middle school, for example' with stiletto heeled shoes, low-rise jeans, lots of breast exposure, etc. MILFs. Personally, I enjoy looking at them, but they're can't step out of the vestments which command attention and desire from males.
I am a school crisis counselor, and I become very open with both kids and parents, but I don't fart openly during group counseling like I might at home. It's unprofessional, which means that the behavior doesn't conform to a certain persona that I maintain. Now my personas are very thin, which permit more of my true values to be seen by others and so I am perceived as being more genuine that many others. I have never been an ass-kisser and it is all I can do to not roll my eyes when some pathetic teacher compliments the principal (the 'boss') in front of me. That too is a persona - the flatterer - who may fear the boss, and it is nature that we 'hate what we fear' so the flattery is completely ingenuine - a lie.
I become 'more myself' under the influence of psychedelics. The physical posturing that I assume (standing straight, knees usually too hyper-extended, stomach held slightly in, etc.) relaxes. My stance upon the ground becomes more balanced and I experience much more comfort being in my own skin. My intellectualizing tendencies takes a break and I appreciate the sensory world of music, food, drink and even breathing in a profound way along with which a sense of gratitude to God radiates from my Heart Center. Criticism and judgement relax and I seem to 'love' existence - even the barking dog and shrieking children who ordinarily get on my last nerve. I feel younger somehow and 'more myself.' Because my Lady is fairly enlightened and she has parallel values to mine, I am not pressured to wear fashionable clothes, shoes, watches or drive a status car, or live in a prestigious location and so 'I' am not encrusted by these common personas. I am true to my own ideals and interests, and I do not pretend to like things in order to fit in or be accepted. I am called a "maverick" by one sad compliant teacher, but I am not 'trying' to be a "nonconformist' [Webster], I am simply trying to 'be myself' which means awakening from the conformity of society's 'Matrix.'
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5187941 - 01/16/06 05:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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A very nice post Markos and one that I agree with wholeheartedly.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zorbman
blarrr
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: kaniz]
#5189632 - 01/17/06 01:10 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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What if "yourself" happens to be an asshole?
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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Fospher
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: kaniz]
#5189881 - 01/17/06 02:38 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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What is 'yourself'? Are there certain phrases or thought that your 'true' persona would never convey? Is your personnality that one dimensional that you can never stray from that label?
I believe this 'yourself' is what others mark you as. Ever hear people say "Oh, you would say/do that!", embarking that this act fits your personality. Or, "why did you do that? That's not like you at all".
Are you working for what others think of you?
Personally, I hate being labeled. I really dont think I can be, I have way too many personality traits. I change my hair radically every year, always get into new things, and right as someone thinks they get a concrete picture of who I am - I change my colors. Fuck being static, be a guerilla, a chameleon always ready to escape people's mindless gossip.
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Fospher
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: zorbman]
#5189909 - 01/17/06 02:51 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
What if "yourself" happens to be an asshole?
Are you implying to yourself by that statement? Being an asshole isnt a trait, its an indulgence.
Being irritable is being weak.
However, being stern and harsh with someone (or even violent) to convey a point may sometimes be the only option left to change their ways. I know there's a situation in my life that I think back to thinking when I should have been violent and I wasn't.
My friend was going through a complete drug-induced psychosis. I mean, he was fucking nuts. I would walk into his hotel room - drugs scattered everywhere - he'd be all coked out saying some weird shit about how he's getting buff of of doing all this yayo and not sleeping. Robbing people left and right. This was (and still is) my best friend. So with my other boy, I thought of just beating his ass, to hopefully make him think of why his two best friends just beat him senseless. Because frankly, nothing else would make him think, he rejected his family, friends and everyone else, and of course talking with any authorities was not an option. I didnt do it, but maybe if I did, he would have not gotten two felonies for possession he did a month later.
As long as you plan out your acts, being extreme or harsh on someone is not negative. It's just another way of teaching. If you're angry, reverse this destructive energy into constructive existence.
I used to be grasp to hate as my answer as well. And I found something stronger. Discipline.
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MarkostheGnostic
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 Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: Icelander]
#5190127 - 01/17/06 05:24 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thankyouverymuch.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: Fospher]
#5190149 - 01/17/06 05:55 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've got a newsbreak for ya - you're not referring to authentic selfhood by talking about the most superficial of things like clothes and haircuts. Additionally, being 'chameleon-like' is a common reference to someone with Borderline Personality organization which is characterized by the absence of an enduring 'trait' self-structure. Instead of an abiding sense of selfhood constellated around deep enduring values, one's tenuous self is comrised of very changeable 'states.' Such a personality deficiency results in stormy relationships, impulsive behaviors, Borderline 'splitting' (seeing people in extremes - all good or all bad and reacting accordingly), and a host of other very negative personal qualities.
Genuine selfhood is anything but one dimensional and static. It is a process which creatively synthesizes inner values, then translates them into outer manifestation (which becomes one's personality). Some people's values for social status and/or financial status informs them to wear an expensive Rolex watch, for example. Others with like values will be attracted/impressed by such a display. Conversely, another individual may wear a $12 Buddhist bracelet with a mantra which may serve as a reminder to the wearer, and a symbol to others (if others are interested). Social/financial status-seeking is not the value that informs this behavior. One piece of jewelry manifests a value based on materialism, and changeable fashion, the other person's value is intended to express an inner life that seeks to be informed by an immutable Reality. Constancy of virtuous values are more indicative of authentic selfhood than changability that results in inconsistency, faithlessness, lack of loyalty to convictions or to others.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Veritas
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5190287 - 01/17/06 08:21 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, I agree 100%, Markos.
When I was younger, it was important to me to keep people guessing about who I was that week. I thought my "self" was made up of what other people could perceive, so I worked to change the obvious. While I did give some thought to being good, that value was defined by what others thought.
The center I return to now is what I refer to as "the person I want to be when I grow up."  When I'm faced with a values-based decision (even a small one, because they way you do anything is the way you do everything), I ask myself what the person I want to be would do. Of course, every decision made this way leads me closer to being my highest self.
This values-centered approach also unplugs me from the "juice" of others' approval/admiration, which increases the importance of my own approval. It matters little whether I am predictable to others or not, as long as I can predict the source of my actions. 
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: Veritas]
#5192422 - 01/17/06 07:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like that "the way you do anything is the way you do everything" very much. It reminds me of a Ram Dass saying that at any moment we are a complete statement of our being. It is important that people understand me, not for their approval but because I have a strong motive (Throat Center) to communicate with others, and what I want to communicate is depth, truth, clarity, not chit-chat, not sports, not the weather. I am 'about something,' not because it's cool (it hasn't been cool to be about Cosmic Consciousness since the early 70s), but because there is really nothing else that I find as important as what is really Real. I'm still enthusiastic about this even without the weekly acid trips of 30 years ago!
Wanting to be special, unique, undefinable is basically late adolescent egocentricity. It is evident among the 'stars' (entertainers like actors and ball players). Sometimes I think about writing books. Ken Wilber has his 'collected works' in imitation of 'The Collected Works of C.G. Jung' for example, but Wilber knows that this folly is his own "Atman Project" (the title of his first book) - his self-made substitute for eternal life or posterity. Other people just have babies and fantasize about being a link in a family chain to wherever. In the scheme of geological time, who will be remembered in 500 years? 5000 years? 10,000 years? 100,000 years? The very pyramids of Egypt will return to desert sand by then. Meanwhile, those who strive for specialness waste precious time in acquiring the only worthwhile perspective (IMO) - the cosmic perspective - sub specie aeternitatus - while is characterized by humility. Humility is close to 'invisibility' and 'omniscience.'
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Cherk
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Re: You are at your best when you are simply yourself - is this an insult? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5193578 - 01/18/06 12:24 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Markos said:
"I like that "the way you do anything is the way you do everything" very much. It reminds me of a Ram Dass saying that at any moment we are a complete statement of our being."
___________________________
I like that saying too That is the thought process that inspired me to say "Is anyone ever not his or her self?".
If we're going on the idea that our true "selves" exist as the eternal tao or cosmic consciousness then our simple existence is one of not being our true selves as any individualization is an illusion of this physical plane. Thus becoming our true self will become an endless struggle(life). Going on the idea that our true selves exist as an illusion on this physical plane then we see that at any given moment we are exactly what we are(because it doesn't matter, the tao has no preference, it's all the same).
Then therapy, spirituality, healing ect... becomes the process of trying to find a way that our true "self"(tao) can be best expressed through our true selves(illusion). Being two things at once(gomp) Through spirituality, therapy ect... we find instances and circumstances(originating from the ego, the ego being this physical plane) where we have blocked ourselves from expressing the tao (our true "self")...Going on the idea that each person is a unique expression of the tao caused by the meshing of the cosmic plane with this physical plane, each blocked expression could be considered another petal on the 1000 petal lotus.
This allows me to be genuinely phony 
I hope this makes sense in the morning
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I have considered such matters.
SIKE
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