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BlueCoyote
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Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more
#5182498 - 01/15/06 05:12 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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As in algebra 1+1 always equals 2 and never equals something else, isn't it in metaphysics that 1 + 1 always bears at least 3 ? The two parts, which create THE more, create IT, the non-inherent but inherent, NEW. Like man + wife = child, or left brain + right brain = human consciousness. As soon as IT gets existent, it can be valuated as another 'pole' on which the ladder of numerology ascends the metaphysics.
Just my thought of today over the primal principle of duality. Feel free to share your thoughts about it 
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alsey
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5182506 - 01/15/06 05:23 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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1 + 1 is 2. its the same thing. it can never be anything else. to say it is something other than what it is would be absurd. like picking up a stone and saying 'this is an apple'.
-------------------- "Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: alsey]
#5182546 - 01/15/06 06:27 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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So, if I may translate this into metaphysics, you would propose to be 1 + 1 = 1 ? If you may see, I get the metaphysical declanations from quality.
It is possible to 'state': one human + one human makes three humans. Or Two brainhalfs make a brainconsciousness. And that adds somehing to 'quality'.
Edited by BlueCoyote (01/15/06 06:35 AM)
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SkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5182562 - 01/15/06 06:59 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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As in algebra 1+1 always equals 2 and never equals something else, isn't it in metaphysics that 1 + 1 always bears at least 3 ? The two parts, which create THE more, create IT, the non-inherent but inherent, NEW. Like man + wife = child, or left brain + right brain = human consciousness.
You are still implying an inherent dualism. Ultimately, ALL is 1. You can psychologically seperate the 1, into 2 pieces, and therefore it appears that you have 1 + 1 = 2. Further seperations, subseperations and sub-subseperations lead to more and more numbers down the number line, but this does not change the fact that reality is all 1 [integrated whole].
And here is a link on metaphysics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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psyka
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5182622 - 01/15/06 07:59 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Numbers require an object to make any sense.
For example, 100 liters of water + 100 liters of alchohol = ~150 liters of solution.
Notice, how 100 + 100 = 150 does not make sense.
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.

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Diploid
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5182642 - 01/15/06 08:17 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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in metaphysics that 1 + 1 always bears at least 3 ?
Too bad my bank doesn't use metaphysical algebra to calculate the interest on my deposits.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5182701 - 01/15/06 08:52 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said: As in algebra 1+1 always equals 2 and never equals something else, isn't it in metaphysics that 1 + 1 always bears at least 3 ? The two parts, which create THE more, create IT, the non-inherent but inherent, NEW. Like man + wife = child
As if sexual intercourse resulting in another human being is a mathematical equation.
Perhaps I just don't understand what you are saying.... I'd learn German, but then I wouldn't make much sense when using it to you. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5186456 - 01/16/06 09:55 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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As nobody seems to understand what I am talking about, I dare to elaborate.
Yes, I am talking about the metaphysical problem of identity. As it states that everything has the identity value of "1". Now, of course, man can see everything as 'one' besides the many parts of which it consists, but will forget about the 'old' principle, which is called: The sum is more than it's parts. Besides that, I recognized, that many things, seemingly being 'one' identity, consists out of two or more parts in nature. May it be the brain, with it's hemispheres, the cell with it's chromosomes, the 'race' consisting of males and females.
So, regarding the sentence, 'the sum is more than it's parts', isn't it obvious, that 1+1 is more than two ? In fact, the two parts built a new identity, which can be seen as the 'third' one, that makes the two parts as 'one' again.
I wonder, if this principle can also be seen in quantum space, and how this principle can be described better than I can...
Got it now folks ?
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: Diploid]
#5186468 - 01/16/06 10:01 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: in metaphysics that 1 + 1 always bears at least 3 ?
Too bad my bank doesn't use metaphysical algebra to calculate the interest on my deposits.
In fact it does, as your money does something there. It rises its value, rsulting in your called interest. Its from merging with the other money, which adds 'eternal' value resulting in MORE, than you paid into your account though pure algebra
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redgreenvines
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5186498 - 01/16/06 10:16 AM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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discomfort about duality is not necessary.
until an association arises there is no separation, once the association (from memory) arizes, the duality exists, whether it is the matching process of perception or the more laborious layer of labelling to support discursive thought or communication.
but when the mind embraces perception (and labelling) as a valid process(es) within the self, duality falls into a secondary status of mechanical function within the mind and again there is no separation.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: redgreenvines]
#5186867 - 01/16/06 12:18 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes redgreen, as far as I understand you, it's as I understand it myself  I see no discomfort at it, only a huge rising above the limited view of algebraic 1+1.
I see everything coming out of it. If two 'single' but in principle similar systems start to interact (same with a single something interactively seperating into two parts), there will arise an 'unpredictable' third something, which, in general will hold the two parts together, but is bearing an original value itself, as an 'identity'.
So this process can start over and over again to build the fabolous complexity we see and call reality.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5186903 - 01/16/06 12:31 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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when association begins, there are many matches until a best fitting selection is made. it is often surprising that only one other seems to emerge - one would expect many and yet one best fit is usually "perceived" so as to create the consensual reality. following that match, another subsequent one usually "chained" (and so on)
do you mean the chained subsequent ones (in 1+1=2+1=3...), or the preselected candidate ones (1+xyz=2/xyz=2)
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: redgreenvines]
#5187019 - 01/16/06 01:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol, I think I mean both simultaniously, as to look into the sums and into the summands (hopefully the right word).
As to look at the diversion and the summation in both ways that make effect to the third outcoming something.
edit: Hard to tell in algebraic terms..like 1+1=3+1=9
Edited by BlueCoyote (01/16/06 01:18 PM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5187060 - 01/16/06 01:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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you mean one two many any which way?
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: redgreenvines]
#5187067 - 01/16/06 01:19 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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sorry, I edited...
a good way to look is: 1+1=3; 3+1=9;....
(something like that)
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5187109 - 01/16/06 01:32 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Two more concepts of the similar quality adding to ONE in bearing much more (than two): Night - Day and Past - Future
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5187119 - 01/16/06 01:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Is there an oscillation inbetween ?
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redgreenvines
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5187305 - 01/16/06 02:24 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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it works like that when you are nicely stoned and several frames are buffered, you can jump accross the timeframes and skip all the passport (intermediate logic) checking.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: redgreenvines]
#5187377 - 01/16/06 02:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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yip, like in a fractal
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gettinjiggywithit
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Re: Metaphysix: 1 + 1 = much more [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5187460 - 01/16/06 03:10 PM (18 years, 5 months ago) |
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Note- this reply later turned into a thought stream journey of some energy dynamics going on behind these debates. I thought it was interesting to look at along the way so I kept it in.
Quote:
Blue said: As nobody seems to understand what I am talking about, I dare to elaborate.
I understand you and so do others who haven't posted in here I am sure from reading others talk about this in other posts.
I wish I could help others understand who currently don't. Maybe they do, I think they do, yet something fights against accepting it for what it is in its own context. Maybe its the duality discomfort red brought up.
I once used the demonstration that 1+1=48. 1 case of soda plus one case of soda equals 48 cans. If I worked for a party planner and she said to me, I need 48 cans of soda, I would go buy 2 cases. We do use metaphysical math and interpret unit exchanges in our head. She and I could understand that she needs me to get 48 of something and that I will be buying 2 things.
It's not complicated and is as simple as it sounds. Maybe thats what is going on, people think we are talking about something more complicated.
The verbal and written math of purchasing two items and giving me 48 of what I need is taking place in the 3rd dimension. The unit exchange is taking place in another spatial dimension of thought outside/inside of the written or verbal word. I call it multi dimensional math for that reason. Blue, you call it metaphysical math. Same difference to me.
Same with that example of 2 pounds of lead equaling 3 pounds when centrifugal force is applied. The unit exchange of force is taken place in another spatial dimension of manipulated gravity pulls.
This is no astounding revelation and we all deal with this stuff and think nothing of it.
Then when someone says 1+1 can =3 or 48 in metaphysical or multidimensional math people say, "NO it doesn't" It doesn't in 3 dimensional math or linear physical math and I agree. It does in multidimensional math where another spatial dimension is being used to understand the unit exchange or in meta-physical math where something intangible is manipulating physics.
This goes back to the discussion on impossibilities. Things become impossible within limit restrictions. In this case, context has limits. Take something out of context, out of its limits and anything may be possible.
Like when someone posts a quote out of context and a completely different meaning may be implied to it. Someone takes the quote out of its 3-dimensional context which gave its intended meaning and by leaving it alone, many other abstract meanings can now be applied to it.
Limits serve us to keep things in control and order. Science uses them for controlled studies. We use them for verbal and written communication and to keep order and structure in our life and to communicate and understand. Just because we put a restriction on something to keep control of it doesn't mean that is all there is to it. It just means, that is all the restrictions allow there to be.
Why is it useful to be able to view reality this way? It just helps us to realize the malleability of "apparent" fixed reality when we want to establish a new possible outcome or new order or structure or allow more freedom within a controlled environment to take place, for new probabilities to result. We can do that if a need or reason too, arises.
We do it in our personal lives to suit our needs and probably rarely realize that we are shifting around personal restriction lines, or using other spatial dimensions of thoughts applied to 3-d space events.
When two or more people are involved, everyone has to be made aware of the shift in the restriction lines for order and understanding to continue or else misunderstandings and miscommunication takes place and then chaos and disorder arises.
Like when someone puts up a quote line out of context, applies a different meaning, and then replies as if that meaning was meant instead of the one written around it. There's almost always a minor to major reaction to that.
When a group agrees to a shift of restrictions and everyone understands the newly created space given to work within, we can make more or less room for ourselves. We do it and or can do it when things get to tight to accommodate desired results.
I think I now understand what diploid meant when he said some people play unfair. They often play with less thinking restrictions then what is apparent and sometimes, logic heads play with less then what is apparent and no one is on the same page of understanding anymore or even in the same playground.
Like when Nakors moved to restrict which definitions of the word draw applied to dips challenge. He pulled them in even tighter and less then what they are to bring the results of failure he desired. Others were working with all of the definitions of the word draw as they appeared in the dictionary. Sometimes, mystic heads use there own other worldly definitions and the same confusion takes place.
Apples and oranges how do we all as humans ever get on the same page at the same time? I think that only happens when the goal is common within a group. When it is not, disorder, conflict and chaos arise.
We are a group of people here and what is our collective goal for being here? We don't have one. 
Some say the come to socialize, some to seek truth, some to determine with logic and ration what is real, some say to explore the nature of consciousness, some say to philosophize about life, some say to debate life philosophies or spiritual teachings and disciplines, just to sharpen debate skills and the list goes on.
In the process, when one goes to reduce another's mental size, they feel uncomfortable being pushed and squished in and say "ouch". When one goes to expand another's mental size, they feel uncomfortable being pulled and stretched out and say "ouch".
Our beliefs systems, where we have our personal limits set for what is or can be make up our comfort zones.
There are the people who say, thats why we need to do away with beliefs and find out what is real or can be.
The funny thing about that is when we have reason, proof or evidence to think something is real it becomes a belief. All of the structures we work within to give life order and to make sense of it are the result of beliefs.
Beliefs are not the problem here. They are just frameworks we work within to define our individual realities. The problems result when people FIX those frame works to a permanent size and foundation.
Some people want a sense of permanence resolved to establish security and familiarity with the environment. That has its advantages as you can become proficient within your fixed environment by getting to know it well.
After that, if you don't expand or change foundations, without new stimulus the auto pilot goes on and one starts to live through the established motions that get them through the day. The down side is that you may become dull after nothing new can be discovered and robot like too.
Others are comfortable within changing environments and adapt quickly. The disadvantage is that they never stay in one fixed area to become proficiently knowledgeable or familiar with it. It is a more insecure place to be in that sense. The advantage is your senses are always being engaged by the new changes of scenery and you feel more alive and excited.
Anxiety can take place for either type when expansion happens to fast to even temporarily secure it along the way. It can also be experienced when things one thought were secure in their mental box others start taking away from it as they shrink it.(if you let them-live with gun to take care of the looters )
For some its like walking into a new 300 room home on 800 acres of land. You may feel insecure and anxious, or maybe excited and comfortable with it. For others, its like having lived in a 300 room home on 800 acres and being put into a studio apartment. They may feel trapped like a rat and get insecure and anxious and want to bust out or they go mad.
I'll end this thought stream here. I got carried away wondering whats going on behind the scenes through these debates. 
Oh yeah, and in the expanded context of multidimensional math 1+1 can =48 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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