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automan
blasted chipmunk


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
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new from Shulgin
#5180248 - 01/14/06 01:30 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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i put this in this frum because it deals with growing mushrooms with modified media to produce different active components.
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/index.html
Wednesday, December 07, 2005 4-Hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, Psilocybe mushrooms, Psilocin Dear Dr. Shulgin:
I have been puzzled, why this compound (4-HO-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine) wasn't included in TIHKAL -- for me it looks very appealing. Have you by the way, ever looked into cathinone (beta-keto-amphetamine) analogues of some of the psychedelic amphetamines (DOB, TMA-2, etc.) The MDMA-analogue (Methylone) is active indeed, do you think the 2,4-5-substitution pattern could be applied onto the CATs?
_Anon_
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Dear _Anon_,
I totally agree with you.
4-Hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine would be a fascinating compound to explore. The reason it's not in TIKHAL is that it is virtually unknown. The only report of it in the chemical literature was a paper published by Marc Julia's group at the Pasteur Institute in 1965. They reported the synthesis and physical properties of the compound but to my knowledge it has never been explored in any way. The synthesis is quite a frightening thing. It starts with ortho-vanillin and takes approximately 10 steps to get to the 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. I'm not surprised that no one has pursued the compound.
However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug.
Your idea of making analogues of the psychoactive amphetamines with the carbonyl that is characteristic of CAT would probably be a disappointment. Cathinone itself is rather unstable because there is a primary amine and a ketone in the same molecule. It will tend to dimerize and become inactive. In the example of METHYLONE (as with methcathinone) the amine is a secondary amine and the compound is quite stable. But all of the psychoactive amphetamines (except for MDMA) are primary amines.
- Dr. Shulgin
-------------------- No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr
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Jon
Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 961
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: new from Shulgin [Re: automan]
#5180294 - 01/14/06 01:42 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thats some pretty cool news. Isnt someone currently trying to test out the DMT substrate?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,507
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Re: new from Shulgin [Re: Jon]
#5180341 - 01/14/06 01:57 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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loved reading this
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Muppet69_420
Speed feeder


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 2,592
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Very fascinating to me. An mushroom containing that chemical thats natural.. amazing and fun.. I would love to see if the mushroom grows ok or if it even will grow.
--------------------
Quote:
I live to learn and learn to live. forget w/e was here b4 it was meth gibberish.... ....thats as old as my account... On that note fart in public and grin. Hail Shroomery!
Edited by Savako (01/14/06 02:08 PM)
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goodoldrascal
protege

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 32
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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wow, this is quite an intruiging prospect. wow. I was wondering if you would even begin to be able to guess the levels of the 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT or any other active compounds created in the mushrooms produced in an experiment like this. If this is information is true it raises many, many... many many questions. What about legality? What about offspring?
(p.s. yes, I am a shroomery neophyte. glad to be a new member! ----(1st reply/post!!))
-------------------- Recent Discovery: Check out the Tibetan Book of the Dead, relevant information, and esp. Leary's translation/interpretation. I hope you will be as astounded by this ancient texts' relevance to the psychedelic experience as I have been.
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S8N
PIMP


Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 330
Loc: michigan
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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a psychedelic mushroom that has masses of LEGAL COMPOUNDS. just add phalaris grass. im wondering if the growing of these would leave any 4-ho-dmt alone behind, or if it would totaly convert it all into 4-ho-5-meo...
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radio943dmt
Stranger
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 16
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: new from Shulgin [Re: S8N]
#5190224 - 01/17/06 07:17 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I keep seeing the shulgin thing popping up several times on several different threads forums, instead of explaining myself other than that I do plan to test all this out, but I can send in a control (normal shroom) sample for a control for analysis, and then everything after that (DMT added to substrate, tryptamine added, and a variety of tryptamines), so maybe finally (although my mushroom growing skills may need some work through this! ) I can post up some results of all my experiments, with analysis of contents of them all (i plan to do a LOT).
Maybe then instead of all the same questions about adding DMT/tryptamine / mimosa root bark etc will be answered with LC/MS analysis and %'s of alkaloid contents for all this stuff, which I hope would be put up on shroomery (that same ONE Gartz study with the potency increase with tryptamine is up here, why not the 2nd Gartz study with added DET and same % weight 4-hydroxy-DET out?) and everywhere else.
Anyway, instead of reposting stuff, here's where all my info is:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=232955
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