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InvisibleSwami
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Actions or Results?
    #5161231 - 01/10/06 03:12 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Scenario 1: Susan, an aspiring author, lets several friends read her finished manuscript. Their response is lukewarm. Susan gets picked up by a major publisher and makes the New York Times bestseller's list. These same friends are now duly impressed though the manuscript remained unedited.

Scenario 2: A poker player makes a huge mathematical blunder in the finals and draws a 500 to 1 shot to win a million dollars and a title.

Sometimes impeccable actions get mediocre results and sometimes mediocre actions get heavily rewarded, but which is truly more important?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5161239 - 01/10/06 03:15 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Both are unpredictable in the end, so importance is irrelevant.

Tell me, what is the point of distinguishing and connoting importance?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: spud]
    #5161268 - 01/10/06 03:22 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

As a modern society, we basically ONLY celebrate results. The also-ran who trained harder or designed/produced something more heartfelt and deeper gets passed over in the public eye. Did you win or score or triumph appears to be sole metric of success and/or worthiness.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblespud
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5161280 - 01/10/06 03:26 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think that's more Americanesque than anything.

In other regions, such as the Middle East and Asia, emphasis is most often on the process rather than the result.

America is a nation of "now", and the "people of now" are not concerned with how, but rather now.  :wink:


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OfflineGulGen
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5161322 - 01/10/06 04:10 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

If the results can be well predicted, act in such a way as to bring about the desired result.

If the results can not be predicted at all, act however you like. If you have no idea what the results are going to be for any given action, then you've got no reason to choose one action over any other.

In life we can't usually predict the outcomes of our actions with any great certainty, but we can observe trends and make statistical judgments. You're more likely to become a bestselling author if you write good books. You're more likely to win poker tournaments if you don't make mathematical blunders.

I could take the risk that I can sit on my ass all day and wind up with more money, happiness, and of course beautiful women than I know what to do with (okay, maybe I could think of something); or I could live a life that seems righteous, or interesting, or that should get me lots of chicks. I don't know what the results of any given action or path will be, but I can make educated guesses based on my knowledge, intuition and experiences, and do whatever sounds best in whatever subjective way I feel like interpreting "best" that day.


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5161351 - 01/10/06 04:32 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Scenario 1: Susan, an aspiring author, lets several friends read her finished manuscript. Their response is lukewarm. Susan gets picked up by a major publisher and makes the New York Times bestseller's list. These same friends are now duly impressed though the manuscript remained unedited.

Scenario 2: A poker player makes a huge mathematical blunder in the finals and draws a 500 to 1 shot to win a million dollars and a title.

Sometimes impeccable actions get mediocre results and sometimes mediocre actions get heavily rewarded, but which is truly more important?




to weigh that would be a mathematical decision that may be wrong.

and it's not a 50% chance.

*because the importance changes based on your decisions....or the wind...who knows?


Edited by TameMe (01/10/06 04:37 AM)


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5161534 - 01/10/06 06:20 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I have always felt that the end justifies the means. Not that ones motivations does not have it's merits, but without results it makes it all worthless, no matter how enlightened those motivations might be.

At the end of the day it is the results that count.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5161753 - 01/10/06 09:34 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sometimes impeccable actions get mediocre results and sometimes mediocre actions get heavily rewarded, but which is truly more important?




I don't understand Scenario 1. Would it have been an impeccable action to throw out or rework the manuscript because her friends didn't like it? What was the mediocre action here?

I think in most cases impeccable actions are more heavily rewarded. I'm sure the poker player knows that (as it pertains to poker,) even though she dodged that particular bullet. She'd probably make a different decision next time. Poker players don't like to gamble.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5161836 - 01/10/06 10:34 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Scenario 1: Susan, an aspiring author, lets several friends read her finished manuscript. Their response is lukewarm. Susan gets picked up by a major publisher and makes the New York Times bestseller's list. These same friends are now duly impressed though the manuscript remained unedited.

Scenario 2: A poker player makes a huge mathematical blunder in the finals and draws a 500 to 1 shot to win a million dollars and a title.

Sometimes impeccable actions get mediocre results and sometimes mediocre actions get heavily rewarded, but which is truly more important?




Nothing is more important than anything else IMO. It just comes down to personal preference.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: gregorio]
    #5162011 - 01/10/06 12:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gregorio said:
I have always felt that the end justifies the means. Not that ones motivations does not have it's merits, but without results it makes it all worthless, no matter how enlightened those motivations might be.




Essentially, it doesn't matter what you do to get it, as long as, in the end, you get your fix of heroin.

Nice philosophy. :thumbup:

:lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePed
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5162580 - 01/10/06 02:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Keeping your serenity, and with the best intention, direct your actions according to your wisdom, and handle outcomes with the same.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Ped]
    #5162749 - 01/10/06 03:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Importance/Opinion.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5162770 - 01/10/06 03:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Let me try again as I failed to communicate properly:

Scenario 1:

A man runs around the track and a handful of people are watching disinterestedly. He finishes panting and sweating totally exhausted and walks to the stands and is basically ignored. Another older man in a warm-up suit sprints off the bleachers excitedly waving a stop-watch. "That was an unofficial world record of 1:46!" he shouts excitedly.

The small crowd murmurs and then breaks out in appplause and cheers.

Did the runner's action change AFTER he finished? Of course not. They witnessed his accomplishment, yet were basically unaffected by it. Only when someone else pointed out the result were they impressed.


Scenario 2:

Swami gives a small concert on synth and piano at a book store. There is a small, appreciative audience who listen raptly and by-and-large enjoy the experience because they decided in advance to attend a mini-event.

Swami spots a grand piano at a winery and sits down to play. Over the course of an hour or so, hundreds of people walk by with only a few stopping to listen. The rest are too busy rushing by to be captured by this impromptu performance.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5162780 - 01/10/06 03:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Scenario 3:  Swami starts a thread about which matters more: actions or results?  Few posters seem to understand what he means, driving him to insanity. He signs himself into a mental hospital for a long "rest."

:wink:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Swami]
    #5163991 - 01/10/06 08:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sometimes impeccable actions get mediocre results and sometimes mediocre actions get heavily rewarded, but which is truly more important?





It depends whether you are extrinsically or intrinsically motivated. Intrinsic motivation would result in a "reward" for impeccable action, regardless of the result. Extrinsic motivation would view as a failure any effort which was not recognized by others.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Actions or Results? [Re: Veritas]
    #5164041 - 01/10/06 08:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Elections.
Award shows.
Contests.
Games.
Matches.

Winning is easy - you just have to make sure you're not the loser.


Good post.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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