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InvisibleMOTH
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Is it selfish to bring new life into the world?
    #5159979 - 01/09/06 08:29 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Do you think it's selfish to have children?  Lately I've been thinking about how selfish it seems to create life.  What right do we have to enforce life on another? 

(But then on the other hand, how do I know that we ALL haven't decided to be born?  :confused: )

I was just thinking that considering the state of the world, it would be pretty selfish of me to create new life for the sake of satisfying my maternal instincts.  If I ever have the desire to parent a human child, I figure I might as well adopt. 

But my husband feels that we should be optimistic, that the state of the world is EXACTLY what would make our job as parents incredibly important and valuable.  (creating 'warriors' for the next generation, so to speak)  I also think he wants to have the experience of parenting his own flesh, which is understandable.  I might want that experience myself one day, but right now I'm just thinking it's selfish. 

What do you think?

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5159993 - 01/09/06 08:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Finally!


YES!!

if they can make them.. why can they not take them? ...


Good topic! :smile:


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Disclaimer!?

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5160015 - 01/09/06 08:35 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

No more or less selfish than anything else we do to create a meaningful and interesting life for ourselves.  :shrug:

Since we don't really know what the point of all this is, why not choose what has intrinsic value and meaning for us as individuals?

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5160058 - 01/09/06 08:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

When it is time for a child to be born its the childs time to be born. You can try and try and try to have a child. But in the end when it is time it is time.

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Invisiblespud
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5160086 - 01/09/06 08:52 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

What do you believe the % of people who regret ever being alive is?

If you can manage to be a somewhat competent parent, IE: not sticking carrots up your 2 year old child's ass, odds are they wont be disappointed you decided to give them life.

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: Veritas]
    #5160127 - 01/09/06 09:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
No more or less selfish than anything else we do to create a meaningful and interesting life for ourselves.  :shrug:

Since we don't really know what the point of all this is, why not choose what has intrinsic value and meaning for us as individuals?




Well, people are free to choose for themselves, I don't really care.  I agree with you, it's up for each of us to decide for themselves what reality they wish to create.  I am impartial to that.  I care only about my life.   

I'm talking about when it comes to making a personal decision and that decision involves a "someone else."  Obviously, I desire to be selfless, I desire to think of others and put them before myself. 

Is the experience of being a mother worth the life of another?

That's the question I'm asking.  It just seems like having children is a blindingly selfish act.  Like, I used to look forward to being a mother until I actually thought about what I would be doing.  Bringing a new person into the world.  Another human being, like myself, another new universe.  Creating a being to suffer and eventually die. 

What right do I have over another being's life? 

I oppose the death penalty because I believe taking away another being's life is not "right," based on what's happening in my universe at present.  According to my own value system, isn't having a child with the foreknowledge of its death sort of like being an accomplice to murder? 

Am I just looking at things too cynically??  :confused:

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5160155 - 01/09/06 09:06 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

According to my own value system, isn't having a child with the foreknowledge of its death sort of like being an accomplice to murder?





That's pretty cynical, Mysh!  :grin:

You could just as easily flip it around and say "isn't choosing NOT to have a child, and thus depriving another being of the wonders and beauties of this world, horribly selfish?"

As you may know, I have two kids.  They do suffer sometimes, but seem to spend 80-90% of their time enjoying being alive.  That's a pretty high percentage...much higher than the average adult, I'd guess.  I encourage them to develop the emotional intelligence to be able to continue enjoying being alive.  I love them up.  I let them be.  They run around naked, laughing at the sensation of running.

Am I an accomplice to murder??

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: Veritas]
    #5160223 - 01/09/06 09:19 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:


Am I an accomplice to murder??




I can't make a judgement for other people. This question is personal.

As for what finally spurred this question, most of the ladies I work with have young children. I am at an age where I may (within the next ten years or so) start thinking about having some of my own. I desire to make the most compassionate decision I can, whether that means children or not.

And yes, you could flip the question both ways.

Quote:

"isn't choosing NOT to have a child, and thus depriving another being of the wonders and beauties of this world, horribly selfish?"





That's a good point, because we have no idea what the hell the POINT of life is.

An interesting twist.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5160263 - 01/09/06 09:27 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In the end you will do what you are most able to do. People are basically selfish and that's the way it is. It really doesn't matter in the end I would say. In fact nothing matters on that level.


Or as Mr. Natural Sez. "Twas ever thus." :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: Icelander]
    #5160341 - 01/09/06 09:47 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

our existence is creation
our role with children is giving not taking
some may begin for other reasons
some may be awkward with responsibility
but the procreative act is pro creation, which is an affirmation of creation.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: Icelander]
    #5160361 - 01/09/06 09:52 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It really doesn't matter in the end I would say. In fact nothing matters on that level.







Yeah, I do silly things like plan a "Human Timeline" in my head of where global consciousness will be in hundreds of years, to give myself some sort of agenda and reason for existing.  But underneath, I precisely agree with you.  Which is why I think, "Why bother?"  I've always had this feeling and the more I live, the more things confirm it. 

But I'm trying to work with the fact that I'm here NOW.  Maybe Veritas is right and becoming obsessed with my life and excluding a child is the most selfish thing. 

So I guess it doesn't matter anyway.  Just like nothing matters.  :smile:  (except maybe what you decide)

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InvisibleELECTRIC
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: spud]
    #5160366 - 01/09/06 09:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"If you can manage to be a somewhat competent parent, IE: not sticking carrots up your 2 year old child's ass..."


:eek: :omg: :eek:


W T F !!!! ???





Riiight.


....And this one time in band camp....



:shiftyeyes:


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Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5160406 - 01/09/06 10:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I think you worry too much about being right or wrong on this issue, or being selfish or not.

Whatever you do, for whatever reason you do it, there will be consequences. And those consequences will teach you everything you need to learn about life in this go round. And that's my 2 cents from 50+ years on this planet.

Try to follow your own understanding and trust your own ideas about things and try not to let others talk you into adopting their plan for how your life should look. Even if you love them. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/09/06 10:05 PM)

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: Icelander]
    #5161043 - 01/10/06 12:21 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

selfless, who else is going to give more for your new liife than you, unless they will be a welfare baby. If that is the case then, wait until you can be auto responsible fro your genes

If no then it is in my mind the most purely sefless act their is, after giving yourself over to a chosen lover, you have to give over total self to the child. Please raise them right? Itas not that hard.


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Asshole

Edited by nakors_junk_bag (01/10/06 12:22 AM)

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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5161181 - 01/10/06 12:53 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:

I was just thinking that considering the state of the world, it would be pretty selfish of me to create new life...

But my husband feels that we should be optimistic, that the state of the world is EXACTLY what would make our job as parents incredibly important and valuable.

What do you think?




I think your husband is correct. A well-raised child is their generation's best hope.

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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: MOTH]
    #5161514 - 01/10/06 04:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think that there is anything selfish about it--life is a gift.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: gregorio]
    #5161659 - 01/10/06 05:21 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

> I don't think that there is anything selfish about it--life is a gift.

Perhaps a gift to those that wish to live, but for those that wish to die, life is a curse.

> What do you think?

I do not have children and am getting close to the age where it will be too late. I don't find people that have children to be selfish, but I also do not see the wisdom in their decision. I certainly would not want to be a child facing the future we are creating. My ego is not so large that I need to leave a legacy of my accomplishments (children) behind. If I decide that I do want children in the future, I will adopt.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #5161840 - 01/10/06 08:37 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nakors_junk_bag said:
selfless, who else is going to give more for your new liife than you, unless they will be a welfare baby. If that is the case then, wait until you can be auto responsible fro your genes

If no then it is in my mind the most purely sefless act their is, after giving yourself over to a chosen lover, you have to give over total self to the child. Please raise them right? Itas not that hard.




Giving over your "total" self to anything is a cowardly act and anyone who makes it will live to regret it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: Icelander]
    #5162720 - 01/10/06 01:23 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Would the world be a better place with your children in it? If the answer is yes, then it would be selfish to withhold the gift of life from the world.

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OfflineDroz
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Re: Is it selfish to bring new life into the world? [Re: shroomydan]
    #5162735 - 01/10/06 01:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

How in the hell does it make it selfish to want to have kids? I don't see where your thoughts are coming from, children is to bring out survival of your own kin.

To reproduce is to have family and with it there are responsibilities.


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Evolution of Time.

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