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agar
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Registered: 11/21/04
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Coir as substrate. 1
#5150228 - 01/07/06 10:28 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Rig LC lids like this.
1 each level tablespoon light dry malt & dry dextrose. To a quart of water. Add nutes to boiling water, decant through double coffee filters. Half each into 2 quart jars. Add a marble to each jar as an agitating device. PC 20 minutes. Coll overnight.
Inoculate LC with spores, colonized agar or tissue. Incubate 76 to 84F. agitate daily.
Wait until you have a thick LC.
Soak WBS 24 hours, rinse, drain & jar up.
PC jars 90 minutes @ 15 to 18 psi. Shake each jar, as you remove from PC. Coll jars overnight.
Inoculate WBS jars with LC, 4 to 5 ml each.
Keep needle wrapped in alc soaked gauze pad, at all time. Minimizes needle exposure to open air.
Incubate jars close to 80F.
Find big block of COIR.
Buy several GLAD OVEN-WARE CONTAINERS.
Find/buy a roll of micropore paper tape. (any drug store in bandage section)
Hydrate Coir with hot water to saturation point. Doesn't drip when you pick up a handful. Does drip when you give it a firm gentle squeeze. Place coir in plastic bags. Nuke several times for 3 minutes each. Seal bags with a rubber band. Allow bags to cool overnight.
Drill a couple 1/2 inch holes in GLAD OVEN WARE LIDS. Cover holes with Micropore tape.
Use colonized WBS as spawn @ 50% rate to Coir in Glad trays. Add lid to tray.
Incubate trays at 80F.
Once trays are colonized. Open lid & add thin layer of casing cover mixture. 50/50 pH adjusted peat (adjusted pH 7.5)& Verm. Add oyster shell flour as a long term buffer.
Incubate trays 3 to 5 more days. (until myc hits casing surface in spots)
Remove lids. Place trays in a fruiting chamber. (85 to 95% rh & 80F) Expose to 12/12 light & FAE.
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Wronguy
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5150234 - 01/07/06 10:32 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Very nice as usual Agar. How does the potency compare to horse manure?
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ohmatic
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Wronguy]
#5150264 - 01/07/06 10:47 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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ha funny as i am just up to trynig coir myself for the next go good to see that itll gonna work as i am expecting it to, thats why i dont use coir in my casing layers, it just got to many damn nutes itself ! peace ohm
-------------------- MONOTUB tek HEATBOMB tek RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !
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agar
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Wronguy]
#5150273 - 01/07/06 10:50 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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As good, if not far BETTER than any shroom off a PF style cake.
It's just a toilet flush simple TEK, for those who want to do semi-bulk. But, don't have large fruiting space & a h/poo, or compost supply.
You can find about everything, in an afternoon around any decent sized town. WBS & Coir from a pet store. Glad OVEN-WARE trays at any large grocery store. Micropore tape at any large chain drug store (single dispenser like Scotch tape - NEXCARE brand).
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Wronguy
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5150282 - 01/07/06 10:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sounds like it's pretty comparable to a straw substrate.
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agar
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: ohmatic]
#5150284 - 01/07/06 10:53 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Coir will OVERLAY if you are not right on top it. I use coir in my casing mix (for a CAC'ing effect). But, only about 5% coir. In other words, a couple handfulls to a large 50/50 mix.
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agar
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Wronguy]
#5150292 - 01/07/06 10:56 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would say BETTER than straw.
I'm not a STRAW substrate fan.
Sure, well prepared straw will colonize quickly.
But, to me it's a one flush wonder.
It doesn't rehydrate well, and after 1 flush seems very contaminate prone.
Just my $0.02 cents on straw.
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Hotnuts
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5150310 - 01/07/06 11:01 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Coir works great as substrate material. The only problem I have with it is; the fruit from the later flushes are extremely weak. First flush fruits are fine and even the second on occasion, but the third and fourth require double the dosage....lol!
It's really strange how far the fruit potency declines with coir. This was a third flush with coir and me and my pal had to eat damn near all of them.
Edited by hotnutz (01/07/06 11:05 AM)
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agar
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Hotnuts]
#5150469 - 01/07/06 12:04 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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That happens because as the myc digests the nutrients in the substrate. Naturally, it takes the good stuff first. Coir is very low in nitrogen. Which (IMHO) is needed for higher potency.
Next batch, add 10 to 20% weathered h/poo.
If you don't have h/poo, add a tiny bit of blood meal, or cotton seed meal, or any high nitrogen ORGANIC fertilizer.
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Hotnuts
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5150710 - 01/07/06 01:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I simply use horse manure and compost for substrate and now have left coir alone. But, coir alone is an easy, managable substrate material for any new grower for sure....
Edited by hotnutz (01/07/06 01:01 PM)
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Snaggletooth
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Hotnuts]
#5151251 - 01/07/06 04:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Great thread...I'll be referring to this in the future...
I did not know that would work...
-------------------- Atheist Chat
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jmg5
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So, the more nitrogen, the higher the potency? I wonder if a high nitrogen fertilizer added to horse poo would up the potency noticeably.
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agar
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: jmg5] 1
#5151297 - 01/07/06 04:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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You want the NITROGEN level under 3.7%
H/poo is about that.
Adding more may/could/would cause damage, rather than benefit. To hot & it burns things.
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jmg5
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5151302 - 01/07/06 04:54 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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cool!
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Hotnuts
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5158952 - 01/09/06 04:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar said: I would say BETTER than straw.
I'm not a STRAW substrate fan.
Sure, well prepared straw will colonize quickly.
But, to me it's a one flush wonder.
It doesn't rehydrate well, and after 1 flush seems very contaminate prone.
Just my $0.02 cents on straw.
Same here. Well for bulk applications anyways. I'd only recommend using straw for Roger's straw log technique. Coir is far better for bulks anyday of the week IMHO....
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Hotnuts] 1
#5159152 - 01/09/06 05:06 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Except, coir is ten to one hundred times the price of straw, so it's not really a fair comparison. Coir is a great substrate material though. Too bad about the price. For nitrogen, you can add blood meal to all substrate materials including horse manure, at the rate of one tablespoon to ten cups of substrate. It really does make a difference in the quality of your crop after harvest.
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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_OttO_
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Quote:
agar said: You want the NITROGEN level under 3.7%
H/poo is about that.
Adding more may/could/would cause damage, rather than benefit. To hot & it burns things.
I always had success with adding a weak solution of organic liquid fertiliser (seaweed extract) to the horse poo too bring it to field capacity - and then pasutrising in sealed oven bags as not too leach out any nutrients.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Except, coir is ten to one hundred times the price of straw, so it's not really a fair comparison.
A block of coir that expands to 9 litres is $2 Australian (about $1.50 US) at my local supermarket. Although this is probably still more expensive than straw, it is a negligable amount of money and very easy to store - if you were only growing smaller amounts and had less space to work with.
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JustK
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: _OttO_]
#5179702 - 01/14/06 10:38 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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How much blood meal would you suggest using Agar? Looking on some websites it appears that blood meal has a N content of about 12%.
I suck at math (art student) so about what percentage would you suggest?
-------------------- Dont get caught dancing. It's just, K.
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agar
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: JustK]
#5179718 - 01/14/06 10:43 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not much. Maybe a tablespoon to 5 lbs of dry h/poo. Which would be just under 15 lbs of wet substrate.
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JustK
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5179728 - 01/14/06 10:47 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was referring to if you were using ONLY the coir as your substrate. I'm trying to avoid using poo, although I will most likely experiment with it in the future. I have a good source for it...my boss
-------------------- Dont get caught dancing. It's just, K.
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JustK
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: JustK]
#5537272 - 04/20/06 11:31 AM (18 years, 2 days ago) |
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Why is this not in the sub forum??
There are actually many good write ups that should be in the sub forums that are not.
-------------------- Dont get caught dancing. It's just, K.
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fufungi
Stranger
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5539926 - 04/21/06 01:33 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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What about using coir in place of verm in pf tech and fruiting as a cake?
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shroomballa
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: fufungi]
#5540632 - 04/21/06 10:45 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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"Use colonized WBS as spawn @ 50% rate to Coir in Glad trays." How do you spawn to something? simply mix it all together?
as far as using coir instead of verm in PF tek, I tried this and after jars showed no signs of growth in 2 weeks, I pitched them. The cakes that came out were so compact, it was almost difficult to break them up. My guess is my coir was not hydrated enough though, and expanded in the PC. (all water squeezed out before mixing w/ brf)
-------------------- Anything I say is fictional. Duh.
Edited by shroomballa (04/21/06 10:47 AM)
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Anno
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: JustK]
#5540638 - 04/21/06 10:50 AM (18 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
JustK said: Why is this not in the sub forum?? There are actually many good write ups that should be in the sub forums that are not.
Care to compile a list and PM me?
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BataviaVakereli
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: fufungi]
#5540977 - 04/21/06 12:53 PM (18 years, 23 hours ago) |
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I wouldn't think that would work as well. Verm is good because it can hold moisture really well. You may be able to substitute brown rice flour with coir though.
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fufungi
Stranger
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Coir expands 800-900% when hydrated. seems to me it would hold water better than verm. Though the cakes may take longer to colonize due to being less "airy"
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shroomballa
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: fufungi]
#5542945 - 04/22/06 12:57 AM (18 years, 11 hours ago) |
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I have 2 jars with 30% coir, 70% verm and BRF, but again, think my coir is not hydrated enough, and when the 4cc/jar (1/2 pt) of LC were injected, i'm sure it swelled more.....only time will tell
-------------------- Anything I say is fictional. Duh.
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cappa
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I've found that coir hydrates really well, but it also dehydrates really well.
Friggin casings shrunk like a mofo.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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fufungi
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: fufungi]
#5549540 - 04/23/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Only one way to find out... I'll whip up a batch of "coir-cakes" and see what happens. As soon as I knock 'em up I'll start a grow log. I should be able to get going this weekend.
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davesj1
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: fufungi]
#5654679 - 05/20/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Would mixing worm castings with coir be a viable option? Dont castings have high levels of Nitrogen?
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hfactor
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5671979 - 05/25/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was kinda looking to do something along the lines of this. My friend told me that mixing some brown rice flower in with the WBS makes for some nice flushes, he said something like 5-10% is all you need. Has anyone tried that out? Cause it definatly seems like WBS runs out of nutes after 2 flushes, but then again I guess I cant complain becuase I still get 3 or 4 flushes. But it just seems like they need more because I dont get nearly as many pins on the 3rd and 4th flushes.
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niteowl
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#5690094 - 05/30/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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That is cool how you used it in you casing.
I used coir instead of verm with the PF tek.
It was a small attempt, just to see if it would work, and it did. Pasteurizing the coir rather than PCing it is the key, IMO
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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davesj1
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: niteowl]
#5712164 - 06/04/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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when using blood meal, do u put it in the water you hydrate the coir in, or do you add it once the coir is already at field capacity? Also for about 12 cups total substrate (rye/coir - wet), how much blood meal is recomended?
Edited by davesj1 (06/04/06 07:02 PM)
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Drowse
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: agar]
#7483983 - 10/04/07 07:59 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar said: That happens because as the myc digests the nutrients in the substrate. Naturally, it takes the good stuff first. Coir is very low in nitrogen. Which (IMHO) is needed for higher potency.
Next batch, add 10 to 20% weathered h/poo.
If you don't have h/poo, add a tiny bit of blood meal, or cotton seed meal, or any high nitrogen ORGANIC fertilizer.
So to bring up a probably dead thread. How about using fish emulsion as an organic fertilizer mixed in with a little coir as a substrate? Has anyone ever tried this?
-------------------- "... and it would be better for our country and the world in general, if at least the few people who were capable of thought stood for reason and the love of peace instead of heading wildly with a blind obsession for a new war." --Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse
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j_db69
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Drowse]
#7485212 - 10/04/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wouldn't want something with fish emulsion in my house, talk about stink. Use worm castings or coffee grounds for a nitrogen boost. Blood meal you will have to be careful with.
-------------------- One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious. --Jung
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Drowse
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: j_db69]
#7486670 - 10/04/07 10:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
j_db69 said: I wouldn't want something with fish emulsion in my house, talk about stink. Use worm castings or coffee grounds for a nitrogen boost. Blood meal you will have to be careful with.
I used fish emulsion all the time when growing plants without the smell bothering me. Smell aside, would it be better to include it in water that I use in coir?
-------------------- "... and it would be better for our country and the world in general, if at least the few people who were capable of thought stood for reason and the love of peace instead of heading wildly with a blind obsession for a new war." --Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse
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Hippie3
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Drowse]
#7487464 - 10/05/07 06:23 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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fish emulsion is very acidic and the ph would likely need adjusting. i prefer cottonseed meal as a N source.
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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toadstooly
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Hippie3]
#7487488 - 10/05/07 06:39 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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lol.
cottonseed meal has a very low ph. and takes a very long time to become available.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: toadstooly]
#7487510 - 10/05/07 06:53 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mycelium loves a low pH. Cottonseed hulls/meal and coffee grinds are excellent substrate additives. Cotton seed meal doesn't need to break down to become available. It becomes available as soon as the mycelium consumes it.
Don't use blood meal because it doesn't do much good unless it's been composted in a pile. Fish emulsion does no good at all. Remember, mushrooms are not plants and need to eat their food to get energy. They don't get energy from the sun, so fertilizers are useless. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Hippie3
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: toadstooly]
#7487536 - 10/05/07 07:12 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
toadstooly said: lol.
cottonseed meal has a very low ph. and takes a very long time to become available.
not necessarily. the ph of cottonseed meal depends in large part on how it's made, here's some with a ph of 6.5 http://www.ladybugbrand.com/ladybugbrand/Product_GardenPep.html fish emulsion is much lower, about 4.5 or lower [to prevent fermentation].
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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Drowse
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Mycelium loves a low pH. Cottonseed hulls/meal and coffee grinds are excellent substrate additives. Cotton seed meal doesn't need to break down to become available. It becomes available as soon as the mycelium consumes it.
Used coffee grounds or not used?
-------------------- "... and it would be better for our country and the world in general, if at least the few people who were capable of thought stood for reason and the love of peace instead of heading wildly with a blind obsession for a new war." --Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse
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StanleyPain
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Drowse]
#8541169 - 06/19/08 03:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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used
-------------------- -= StanleyPain
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gethyn
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Thanks for bumping this thread this is a perfect and easy process ive been looking for
-------------------- I RESEMBLE THE REST
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Rx900
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: JustK]
#13519061 - 11/21/10 11:41 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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hpoo
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Rx900
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Drowse]
#13519063 - 11/21/10 11:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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how much coffie?
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PsiloSci
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: Hotnuts] 1
#25081386 - 03/22/18 01:50 AM (6 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Coir works great as substrate material. The only problem I have with it is; the fruit from the later flushes are extremely weak. First flush fruits are fine and even the second on occasion, but the third and fourth require double the dosage....lol!
It's really strange how far the fruit potency declines with coir. This was a third flush with coir and me and my pal had to eat damn near all of them.
Now in response to your potency statement here is a Quote from RR " Wrong. That's nonesense. Coir is as nutritious as horse manure, and is not suitable for use as a casing layer due to the nutrition unless massively diluted with vermiculite. That's why coir casings overlay so often. Coir is far better suited as a substrate, and there is not one single shred of evidence that coir does not deliver superior potency in cubensis. RR"
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Coir as substrate. [Re: PsiloSci]
#25081449 - 03/22/18 03:00 AM (6 years, 28 days ago) |
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-------------------- This space for rent
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