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InvisibleAlex213
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Should Saddam be reinstated?
    #5141710 - 01/05/06 12:01 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

With Iraq rapidly descending into apocalypse is the best thing we could possibly do for the Iraqi people to re-instate Saddam? At least he could get the electricity and water supplies working again.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5141762 - 01/05/06 12:13 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

do you think he'd be elected if he were allowed to run?


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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5141767 - 01/05/06 12:14 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Saddam has already told his lawyers he wants the firing squad if proven guilty.

He know's they don't want him.

It's sad that you don't know that yet.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Stein]
    #5141780 - 01/05/06 12:18 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Saddam has already told his lawyers he wants the firing squad if proven guilty.

He said that because they were going to hang him.

He know's they don't want him.


Where did you get this from?

It's sad that you don't know that yet.

What are you talking about? I merely asked a question.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5141789 - 01/05/06 12:20 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

do you think he'd be elected if he were allowed to run?

Not with the Shia and Kurds having more votes than the Sunni. But you have to accept that even after 12 years of appalling sanctions Saddam was still providing more water and electricity than they are now.

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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5141791 - 01/05/06 12:21 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

and why is it do you think he thought they were going to hang him?




edit: he thought

Edited by Stein (01/05/06 12:22 AM)

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Stein]
    #5141798 - 01/05/06 12:22 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

To try and justify launching an illegal invasion on the basis of false and misleading propaganda?

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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5141803 - 01/05/06 12:23 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

who, what the fuck are you talking about

he is being tried by his own people

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5141815 - 01/05/06 12:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

what was the availability of water and electricity like before the invasion, and what is it like now?

if there are greater shortages now, what is preventing supplies from returning to their pre-invasion levels?


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Stein]
    #5141824 - 01/05/06 12:29 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

he is being tried by his own people

"own people" in what sense? Has anyone in Iraq voted on this?

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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Stein]
    #5141825 - 01/05/06 12:29 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Where were all these "insurgents" under Saddam?

At least he was able to keep his country in line. Perhaps conditions were not as bad as the American media is letting on...

Unless the Americans are just willing to admit that Saddam and his army was able to do what you can't...

Strange that all this uprising wasn't happening then. If Saddam was so bad, then why are people just fighting back now...


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Edited by Prajna (01/05/06 12:31 AM)

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5141829 - 01/05/06 12:30 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

what was the availability of water and electricity like before the invasion, and what is it like now?


I believe it was better pre-invasion.

if there are greater shortages now, what is preventing supplies from returning to their pre-invasion levels?

War.

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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Prajna]
    #5141836 - 01/05/06 12:34 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I've yet to understand the mindset of an apologist.

The insurgents you talk of weren't there before because they didn't mind their own kind.

It's our presence that brought those roaches out.

Do you honestly think they were gonna do shit to saddam and his army while he was in power?

jesus man use your head

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Prajna]
    #5141846 - 01/05/06 12:36 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

If Saddam was so bad, then why are people just fighting back now...

ba'ath regime: entrenched in iraq over decades. large, native, intelligence organizations. dissidents tortured and killed by the thousands.

occupation force: newcomers and foreigners in a proud muslim land. very different policies on human rights of dissidents and insurgents.


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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5141850 - 01/05/06 12:37 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
he is being tried by his own people

"own people" in what sense? Has anyone in Iraq voted on this?




Do you see him in a court in California?

Are the jurors Americans?

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5141872 - 01/05/06 12:41 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)


I believe it was better pre-invasion.


is there a source for that?

War.

what aspects of it? who is destroying, or preventing the construction of water and electricity infrastructure, and how? are occupation troops destroying power plants? are they preventing the construction of power lines? are the insurgents cutting water mains? are they threatening to kill anyone who helps construct telecommunications facilities? in what ways is the conflict creating these shortages?


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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5141891 - 01/05/06 12:46 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

just forget it

this is just a huge propaganda thread to get people talking more about how horrible America is

such rubbish

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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5141929 - 01/05/06 12:57 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
With Iraq rapidly descending into apocalypse is the best thing we could possibly do for the Iraqi people to re-instate Saddam? At least he could get the electricity and water supplies working again.




Quite possibly the dumbest post I have seen here on the Shroomery.

:irdumbtard:

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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Stein]
    #5141947 - 01/05/06 01:01 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stein said:
Quote:

Alex213 said:
he is being tried by his own people

"own people" in what sense? Has anyone in Iraq voted on this?




Do you see him in a court in California?

Are the jurors Americans?





This is from the BBC:

Galloway: Saddam trial US 'sham'

Mr Galloway will not stand for election in Scotland
George Galloway has branded the trial of Saddam Hussein a US sham and said Iraq's new interim authority is a "puppet of the military occupiers".

The rebel MP, kicked out of Labour for his outspoken attacks on the war, said the ex-dictator was effectively being tried by the US, who wanted him hanged.

"It is not the Iraqis that are doing it, it is the Americans," he told Sky.

"Iraq is not a free country. There is a government that has been put in power in Baghdad by the Americans."

Saddam's trial began on Thursday with the former leader denouncing US President George W Bush as the "criminal".

'Stooges'

He also rejected the jurisdiction of the special tribunal and said he was still Iraq's president.

Mr Galloway meanwhile said Iraqis prosecuting the trial were "stooges, collaborators, hand-picked by the military occupation of Iraq".

The Glasgow Kelvin MP has founded his own political movement called Respect which is a left-wing alliance opposed to military action in Iraq.

When Saddam was in power, Mr Galloway visited Saddam in Iraq, although he rejects claims he is an apologist for the brutal regime.

He said the ex-dictator was a war criminal "just like George Bush and Tony Blair".

______________________________________________________________________


Please tell me that you are not naive enough to really believe that the Americans couldn't "rig" a trial...

Fact is you nor I could ever really say whether he is getting a fair trial or not, and by the time we did, he would be dead anyway...

Nice assumption of "innocent until proven guilty" by the way.


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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Prajna]
    #5141959 - 01/05/06 01:05 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Don't you think they'd have killed him in that spider hole if they didn't want this bullshit attention from the bbc?

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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Prajna]
    #5141977 - 01/05/06 01:08 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
He said the ex-dictator was a war criminal "just like George Bush and Tony Blair".




Anyone that makes that kind of comparison is an idiot.  :thumbdown:

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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5141986 - 01/05/06 01:10 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

On what grounds?


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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Prajna]
    #5141993 - 01/05/06 01:12 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Are you kidding me?

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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Prajna]
    #5141995 - 01/05/06 01:12 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

please answer, lady

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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Stein]
    #5142009 - 01/05/06 01:17 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Let her answer  :crazy2:

Edited by Mcdoopy (01/05/06 01:27 AM)

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InvisibleStein
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5142017 - 01/05/06 01:19 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

yes, let him

Edited by Stein (01/05/06 01:24 AM)

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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Stein]
    #5142032 - 01/05/06 01:23 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:  I'm way out of it... 3:30am

:goodnight:

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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5142071 - 01/05/06 01:46 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mcdoopy said:
Are you kidding me?




No, I'm not asking to be a prick, I really just don't know what he did.

That quote wasn't from me, BTW, it was from the article that I posted. I fear that he may not be getting a fair trial though, for obvious reasons.

As an American you may not think that he even deserves a fair trial, but I believe that it should be the right for all people.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5142083 - 01/05/06 01:53 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

very different policies on human rights of dissidents and insurgents.

"Very different policies" such as?

Iraq's government says it has begun an investigation into the alleged abuse of more than 170 detainees held by Iraqi security forces in Baghdad.

The prisoners, many malnourished and some showing signs of torture, were found when US troops took control of an interior ministry building on Sunday.

The BBC's Caroline Hawley in Baghdad says the discovery will not come as a surprise to many Iraqis.

There have been persistent allegations of abuse by members of the Shia-dominated security forces, our correspondent says.

But Sunday's discovery is hard evidence and officials believe it may be the tip of the iceberg.

Human rights group Amnesty International welcomed Mr Jaafari's decision to order an investigation but urged him to expand the inquiry to cover all allegations of torture.

Amnesty also asked him to make the results public.

"There have been many reports of torture and maltreatment of Iraqi detainees by the Iraqi police and security forces belonging to the Ministry of the Interior such as the Wolf Brigade," spokeswoman Nicole Choueiry told Associated Press.

"Amnesty International recently received information of four people who were tortured while detained by Iraqi security forces."

Iraq's new police force has faced repeated allegations of systematic abuse and torture of people in detention by human rights groups, as well as allegations of extra-judicial killings.

A report by pressure group Human Rights Watch earlier this year said methods used by Iraqi police included beating detainees with cables, hanging them from their wrists for long periods and giving electric shocks to sensitive parts of the body.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4440134.stm

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Stein]
    #5142093 - 01/05/06 01:56 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Don't you think they'd have killed him in that spider hole if they didn't want this bullshit attention from the bbc?



No because they wanted to go through the charade of a public show trial.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5142098 - 01/05/06 02:00 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


He said the ex-dictator was a war criminal "just like George Bush and Tony Blair".

Anyone that makes that kind of comparison is an idiot.




As the International Crime Court stated quite clearly:

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Bush is a war criminal. There really is no defence to the charge whatsoever.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5142148 - 01/05/06 03:39 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Bush is a war criminal. There really is no defence to the charge whatsoever.




By that reasoning, then the entire UN is a war criminal as well...


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Seuss]
    #5142165 - 01/05/06 04:32 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

By that reasoning, then the entire UN is a war criminal as well...

Why? The UN didn't approve the invasion.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5142200 - 01/05/06 05:04 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

> Why? The UN didn't approve the invasion.

I was speaking in general terms with respect to the definition given. There have been plenty of times in the past that the UN has approved the use of force (aggression)... I guess if everybody agrees, then it isn't a war crime after all... (I'm being a bit cynical this morning and haven't had any coffee yet...)

It would be very interesting to see a US President charged as a war criminal... I doubt it would ever happen as long as the US is the primary funder of the UN... nobody wants to bite the hand that feeds them, though they may grumble a lot.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Seuss]
    #5142237 - 01/05/06 06:32 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Historically speaking, every nation that is invaded by the USA does suffer temporary economic hardships.

What was Germany after World War 2????

Japan after Pearl Harbor, then we dropped the bomb?

Look at these countries now.

Placing Saddam back in power would be as insightful as placing
Hitler back in power.

You need to read your history and establish in your mind, that during a war or engagement with the US, it takes years of reconstruction for a country to reestablish itself. 99.9% of the time, the country is better off afterwords.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5142259 - 01/05/06 07:17 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Quote:


He said the ex-dictator was a war criminal "just like George Bush and Tony Blair".

Anyone that makes that kind of comparison is an idiot.




As the International Crime Court stated quite clearly:

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Bush is a war criminal. There really is no defense to the charge whatsoever.




International Crime court? International law is dubious to even those who are supporters of it and irrelevant to those who don't believe in it.

International law contradicts the sovereignty of nations and many view the sovereignty of a nation as the only foundation for which moral action can be upheld in.

Let's not forget history either. UN law was violated in Bosnia, but it didn't matter to the Europeans then, did it? They supported war in the face of breaking 'international law' and were not charged as war criminals.

UN's international law does bolster legitimacy when it comes to war, and that is the main reason nations look to it before action, but when all is said and done, it is used and abused by everyone and to refer to it as thee moral foundation for which the world must act upon is ridiculous.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Seuss]
    #5142288 - 01/05/06 07:49 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

There have been plenty of times in the past that the UN has approved the use of force (aggression)...

Is the use of force the same thing as initiating a war of aggression? Driving Iraq from Kuwait would be use of force, I'm not sure you could class that in the same category as invading Iraq.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5142296 - 01/05/06 07:56 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Historically speaking, every nation that is invaded by the USA does suffer temporary economic hardships.


I think you could call what happened to the countries in South East asia after US involvement as a little more than temporary economic hardships.

What was Germany after World War 2????

A massively powerful industrialised state that needed a little time to recover?

Look at these countries now.


Why not look at Vietnam or Cambodia rather than countries that were already massively powerful to begin with?

99.9% of the time, the country is better off afterwords.

You'd have to give me examples other than Germany or Japan. Which were countries that were always going to recover anyway. Certainly the US bombing Cambodia back into the stone age resulted in the rise to power of Pol Pot which presumably you agree didn't make Cambodia "better off".

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5142324 - 01/05/06 08:18 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Alex stated:

A massively powerful industrialised state that needed a little time to recover?


The manufacturing ability of Germany was crippled, the infastructure of the counrty was all but destroyed. Hilter depleted the industial complex of Germany, like a spent battery. The USA ecomnoic reform coupled with its monetary aid re established Germany

Southeast Asia is its own beast. I will grant that US involvement was not productive for the countries there, however, the blaming of Pol Pot on the US is bullshit.

You'd have to give me examples other than Germany or Japan

UMMMM ....how about France?????


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5142328 - 01/05/06 08:20 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)


I believe it was better pre-invasion.


is there a source for that?

War.

what aspects of it? who is destroying, or preventing the construction of water and electricity infrastructure, and how? are occupation troops destroying power plants? are they preventing the construction of power lines? are the insurgents cutting water mains? are they threatening to kill anyone who helps construct telecommunications facilities? in what ways is the conflict creating these shortages?

"Very different policies" such as?

you answered your own question.

"Iraq's government says it has begun an investigation into the alleged abuse of more than 170 detainees held by Iraqi security forces in Baghdad."

under ba'ath iraq, dissidents and political opponents were rounded up, tortured, and executed as a matter of routine. they died by the thousands. there weren't investigations because these sorts of things were permitted then.

here's a question... if you had to choose whether to be an iraqi openly defying hussein's government, or openly defying the coalition, which would you feel safer as?


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5142692 - 01/05/06 10:38 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

is there a source for that?

I heard it on the news the other day.

what aspects of it?

What aspects of war can cause problems in countries? Pretty much all of them.

are the insurgents cutting water mains?

You do realise that without the war there wouldn't be any insurgents in the first place?

"Iraq's government says it has begun an investigation

:grin:

That's allright then...

if you had to choose whether to be an iraqi openly defying hussein's government, or openly defying the coalition, which would you feel safer as?

Why would you feel safe under either?

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5142704 - 01/05/06 10:41 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Southeast Asia is its own beast. I will grant that US involvement was not productive for the countries there

Nicaragua? That whole Somalia thing? Are they "better off" for US involvment?

How about funding the islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan? Do you think the Afghani people are "better off" for the US helping those lunatics?

however, the blaming of Pol Pot on the US is bullshit.


Nah, it's common sense. Unless you want to believe he just appeared after the country had been bombed back into the stone age by coincidence.

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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5142892 - 01/05/06 11:42 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Quote:


He said the ex-dictator was a war criminal "just like George Bush and Tony Blair".

Anyone that makes that kind of comparison is an idiot. 




As the International Crime Court stated quite clearly:

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Bush is a war criminal. There really is no defence to the charge whatsoever.




You can't really believe that.  I hope you are just trying to sound smart.

:thumbdown:

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5142972 - 01/05/06 12:12 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The UN was a "war criminal" in Bosnia.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5143055 - 01/05/06 12:36 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

You can't really believe that. I hope you are just trying to sound smart.



There's nothing to "believe" about it. Bush initiated a war of aggression on Iraq. Therefore he is a war criminal.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5143056 - 01/05/06 12:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The UN was a "war criminal" in Bosnia.

Why?

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5143059 - 01/05/06 12:38 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Because they iniated a war of aggression.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5143068 - 01/05/06 12:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

No they didn't.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5143084 - 01/05/06 12:46 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Explain to me how the UN violating Yugoslavia's sovereignty under the guise of "humanitarian aid" was not a war of aggression?

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5143122 - 01/05/06 12:56 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

When did the UN do this? Do you mean NATO?

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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5143134 - 01/05/06 01:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The UN was involved as well. After the initial strikes, the UN acted as an occupation force in the former Yougoslavia.

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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5143157 - 01/05/06 01:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Europe went to war in Kosovo after the U.N security council did not give authorization.

*Gasp* WAR CRIMINALS!


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5143164 - 01/05/06 01:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The UN was involved as well

Arn't we talking about whether or not they initiated a war of aggression?

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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: looner2]
    #5143168 - 01/05/06 01:09 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Europe went to war in Kosovo after the U.N security council did not give authorization.

*Gasp* WAR CRIMINALS!




No, looner... don't you understand? Europe found it morally correct to disregard the U.N and because they are God's gift to righteousness, the decision was just.

Europe now believes the U.N is the ultimate source of legitmacy, so you will obey her for she is the new ultimate in justice and peace!


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: looner2]
    #5143737 - 01/05/06 03:52 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

All that fighting in the Balkins is caused by muslims, too, not surprisingly.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #5143744 - 01/05/06 03:55 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Actually, it was caused by Muslims being ethnically cleansed, but whatever.

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5143778 - 01/05/06 04:09 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mcdoopy said:
Quote:

Alex213 said:
With Iraq rapidly descending into apocalypse is the best thing we could possibly do for the Iraqi people to re-instate Saddam? At least he could get the electricity and water supplies working again.




Quite possibly the dumbest post I have seen here on the Shroomery.

:irdumbtard:




Quote:

Here we are not fighting for a handful of dirt nor some imaginary borders drawn by Sykes - Picot , Likewise, We are not fighting here to replace a Western Taghut with an Arab Taghut. rather, our Jihad is loftier and higher. Verily, we fight to make the Word of Allah the Highest, and to make the Din entirely for Allah, And fight them untill there is no more Fitnah (shirk) and the worship will all be for Allah. So anyone who opposes this aim Or stands in the way of this goal Then he is an enemy of ours, and a target of out swords, regardless of what his name or lineage is. Verily, we have a Din which Allah has sent down as Scale and Judge. Its statement is Decisiive and its verdict is not a joke, This is the relationship which we have had with mankind. Thus our standards- and praise is to Allah are Heavenly, and our verdicts are Qur'anic, and our decisions are based upon the Prophetic Law. The american Muslim is our Brother, Beloved; and the Arab apostate is our enemy, despised even if he and we came out of the same womb





I dont know Saddam back in power maybe more helpful. Itleast he actually had some control in the country.

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5143795 - 01/05/06 04:15 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Explain to me how the UN violating Yugoslavia's sovereignty under the guise of "humanitarian aid" was not a war of aggression?




Yugoslavia was not a country after Tito died. It was split into Serbia and Montenegro on the christian side, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, and Croatia.

91- 95 war was caused because Bosniaks wanted a democratic muslim country. When bosniaks told the serbs they wanted to break off of serbia, Serbia declared war. The Serbs pressed the U.N. To put sanctions on Bosnia for No limited arms for any defense. The Bosniaks were powerless and the Chetniks eventually just marched right into Sarajevo and surrounded the city with 105 and 88 mm mortars and barraged them.


Not only that but Serbia's main target were hospitals, mosques, schools and civilian targets. When Bosnia kicked Serbia's ass WITHOUT U.N. help, and by the end of the war Nato had been knocking out serbian artillery batteries around 95.

Then Serbia invaded another country Kosovo in 99 and after that it was all history.

Serbs have been the instigators of war in that region.


EDIT:

and 2nd of all the second time UN put security forces was because they did not want to see another 91-95 war which left thousands of people dead. Not only that but its no secret that JnJ(chetniks) and the reserves out of Montenegro were committing genocide.


Chetniks- Orthodox Christians (Serbs)
Bosniaks- Muslim
Croats - Catholics

Bosniak Serbs- Christian
Bosniaks- Muslims
Bosniak Croats- Catholic.

Montenegro- Chetniks.

Edited by The_Red_Crayon (01/05/06 04:20 PM)

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5144347 - 01/05/06 07:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I heard it on the news the other day.

just say you don't have one. thanks.

What aspects of war can cause problems in countries? Pretty much all of them.

the question was not what aspects of war can cause "problems", but which aspects in this current conflict are causing the shortages you referred to. if you had any understanding about the nature and causes of the shortages, you could answer this question simply. the fact that you've chosen to avoid it, and that you cannot provide a source supporting your claim that such shortages even exist, betrays how little you understand the situation over there.

That's allright then...

are you honestly claiming that the current government is as effective and ruthless in eliminating protest as the previous one? can you please explain a single aspect in which the current government provides more horrific penalties for protest or insurrection, or uses more nefarious intelligence gathering methods, than the previous?

Why would you feel safe under either?

the question said "safer" not safe. jeeze. way to not give a straightforward answer to a single question posed in the post to which you are responding.


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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5144966 - 01/05/06 09:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Define 'war of aggression'













:thumbdown: :topicsucks:

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5146226 - 01/06/06 10:02 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

just say you don't have one. thanks.


Why? Like i said I heard it on the news the other day. Do you want me to search google for you?

the question was not what aspects of war can cause "problems", but which aspects in this current conflict are causing the shortages you referred to

It's not about aspects. All the problems are a consequence of launching a half-baked invasion. If you can't comprehend this then there's nothing else to say.

the fact that you've chosen to avoid it,

:grin:

Are you serious? I just don't have enough respect or interest in your opinions to search google for you. If you had any genuine interest in the subject then rather than making your usual bitchy comments you could search google yourself.

can you please explain a single aspect in which the current government provides more horrific penalties for protest or insurrection

So using starvation, electrocution are better than Saddam?

the question said "safer" not safe.jeeze. way to not give a straightforward answer to a single question posed in the post to which you are responding

Under Saddam prisoners were tortured and under the new government prisoners are tortured. Which do you feel safer being a prisoner under?

Can you even answer your own profoundly idiotic question?

I'm one post from putting you back on ignore..

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5146259 - 01/06/06 10:14 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Define 'war of aggression'


Invading Iraq.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5146260 - 01/06/06 10:14 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Do you want me to search google for you?

if you make a positive claim, it is up to you to support it.

it's very possible that electricity and water shortages are worse now than before the invasion. i actually don't know if they are or they aren't. since you're claiming they are, i'm asking where you got the info. if it's just something you heard on the news the other day, and you don't have a source or other confirmation, i won't bother.

All the problems are a consequence of launching a half-baked invasion. If you can't comprehend this then there's nothing else to say.

you say the invasion is causing shortages of water and electricity. all i'm asking for is a source for that info and some explanation as to how the invasion is causing the shortages. all i'm asking is that you support the claims you've made. you are dragging your heels. why?

I just don't have enough respect or interest in your opinions to search google for you. If you had any genuine interest in the subject or think I'm making it up then rather than making your usual bitchy comments you could search google yourself.

my questions are in regards to claims that you have made. i'm asking you to support your statements. why are you so unwilling to do so?

Under Saddam prisoners were tortured and under the new government prisoners are tortured.

under which government was torture more common?
under which government was torture more accepted as a standard procedure?
under which government was torture more often used as a penalty for political prisoners?
under which government were more dissidents excecuted?
which government had more pervasive intelligence gathering capabilities?


--------------------


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5146288 - 01/06/06 10:34 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i actually don't know if they are or they aren't. since you're claiming they are, i'm asking where you got the info

Well now you know. If it isn't true then you can prove me wrong.

if it's just something you heard on the news the other day, and you don't have a source or other confirmation, i won't bother.


If you think it isn't true do a search and let me know.

all i'm asking for is a source for that info and some explanation as to how the invasion is causing the shortages.

What is the sense of asking this tho? Do you believe if the invasion hadn't happened the shortages would be happening now?

all i'm asking is that you support the claims you've made. you are dragging your heels. why?


Because firstly it isn't a "claim" and doesn't need any "supporting statements". Invading Iraq has resulted in the current insurgency. That is a statement of fact. It isn't a "claim".

y questions are in regards to claims that you have made. i'm asking you to support your statements. why are you so unwilling to do so?


What claims? That the invasion of Iraq resulted in an insurgency?

under which government was torture more common?
under which government was torture more accepted as a standard procedure?
under which government was torture more often used as a penalty for political prisoners?
under which government were more dissidents excecuted?
which government had more pervasive intelligence gathering capabilities?


Do you actually have a point or do you just intend to ask dozens of dopey questions and then spend the next 4 pages saying "Why are you avoiding my questions"?

You havn't even answered your own question yet. Here it is again...As torture is used on prisoners under both Saddam and the new government which would you feel "safer" being a prisoner under?

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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5146447 - 01/06/06 11:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Well now you know. If it isn't true then you can prove me wrong.



There's a pinkish ant-eater named Bernie that created the Universe. Everything that was, is, and will ever be is a product of Bernie. If you say the word Bernie every hour on the hour for at least 20 years of your life, then when you die your soul goes to Bernieland where you exist forever in eternal bliss. If this isn't true then you can prove me wrong.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5146468 - 01/06/06 11:31 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Those are some disgusting, childish debating tactics. YOU made the claim, so YOU back it up with sources. Either that, or concede that you are wrong.

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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5146481 - 01/06/06 11:34 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Identical to the "debating" tactics of the infamous Alex123/Xlea321, of whom Alex213 has never heard.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence, however.





Phred


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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Phred]
    #5146518 - 01/06/06 11:42 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

:rofl:

:wink:

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5148646 - 01/06/06 07:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

you're claiming that water and electricity service in iraq is worse now than while hussein was in power. i'm asking you to prove it. you're refusing.

someone asked why there is an insurgency now that didn't exist while hussein was in power. one of the reasons i cited was that the current government's policies towards human rights of those who oppose the government is very different than under hussein. i don't see how you can refute this. now, since i made a claim, it is up to me to back it up.

"Summary executions increased during January and February, primarily in reaction to acts of armed resistance. Following a practice especially common during September and October 1990, Iraqi authorities ordered highly publicized executions of suspected resistance members."

"Throughout 1992, there were reports of punitive military operations in the marshlands area of southern Iraq which is home to an indigenous Arab people and has been used as a shelter for Iraqi rebel forces and military deserters. The counterinsurgency campaign included indiscriminate attacks by artillery, helicopter gunships and fixed-wing aircraft on villages. The attacks were reportedly accompanied by the arrest and execution of civilians, including tribal leaders, the destruction of property and livestock, and the razing of entire villages."

"In one incident during the first week of August, over 2,000 people from the Al-Keba'ish marsh, in Nasiriyya governorate, were reportedly rounded up and transported to an army camp at Manareh, just south of the Iraqi-Kurdish cease-fire line, near the city of Erbil, where they were confined to large poultry sheds. According to Muhammad Sayyah 'Omran, a survivor who managed to flee to Kurdish lines, on each of the three nights he was at the camp, about 100 detainees were executed."

"After a battle from July 7 to 9 near Kermat Beni Sa'id, his contingent was forced to surrender. Together with an estimated 2,000 men and 500 women and children from the vicinity, the sairi prisoners were taken first to Baghdad and then transported further north to a depopulated district near the Kurdish lines. Told they would be permitted to farm there, they instead were systematically executed"

"The Iraqi government continued to punish its citizens under a series of brutal decrees first passed in June 1994. The decrees_which impose punishments constituting torture_ordered the amputation of ears and hands, branding of foreheads and the use of the death penalty for crimes such as stealing, desertion from the military, smuggling antiquities, engaging in currency exchange, organizing prostitution and car theft."

"...However, because political opponents were required to register with the Iraqi government in order to qualify for the amnesty, there was legitimate skepticism about the government's real intentions. This would not be the first time that Iraq used an amnesty as a ruse to round up opponents. After the 1991 uprising in the south, Iraq issued an amnesty for which people had to apply. About 3,000 individuals who came forward and registered in Najaf were placed on trucks and have not been heard of since."

"Throughout 1996, persons involved in or suspected of opposition to the government, especially those who held positions of responsibility within the government and military, were targets of arbitrary arrest, disappearance, torture, and extrajudicial execution. Several waves of arrests and executions involving dozens of military officers were reported in May, June, and July following what the government claimed were foiled or failed coup attempts. By the beginning of 1996, the U.N. Working Group on Enforced or Involuntary Disappearances had over 16,100 unresolved cases of Iraqi disappearances, more than for any other U.N. member state."

"Despite repeated inquiries by the U.N. Working Group on Enforced or Involuntary Disappearances, the Iraqi government failed to clarify the fate of over 16,000 individuals reported "disappeared" in Iraq. These cases are in addition to those of over 600 persons reported "disappeared" during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait."

there is a lot more where this came from at Human Rights Watch

do you honestly believe that the current government is as brutal as hussein's in crushing opposition?


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OfflineCommunismIsRight
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5150118 - 01/07/06 09:31 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Saddam is being treid under the French and Egyptian law system. That is why he will be hanged.


--------------------
Why do we kill people who are killing people to show that killing people is wrong? ~Holly Near

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~John Stewart Mill

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Invisiblequiver
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5150205 - 01/07/06 10:19 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

hahaha im nearly blind drunk and uneducated but when it comes to us against them id have to disagree...whats your nationality/religion?
dont get me wrong...i just emailed a a pretty young curtain clad young lady with my best intentions living in the west and id fuck her silly thru her hajib and talking from experiience she's gonna go off like a roman candle and may allah bless her soul :dickin:


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5150403 - 01/07/06 11:38 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Those are some disgusting, childish debating tactics

I get it, you're pissed because I didn't agree with you in the other thread?

YOU made the claim, so YOU back it up with sources

I've told you my source. A news report on the television.

Either that, or concede that you are wrong.

Why not find a source that proves me wrong instead?

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Phred]
    #5150414 - 01/07/06 11:44 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phred

Identical to the "debating" tactics of the infamous Alex123/Xlea321, of whom Alex213 has never heard.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence, however.





So much for your promise to let this drop. Looks like the admins will need to have another word with you. Grow the fuck up.

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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5150981 - 01/07/06 02:27 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I addressed this concern via our Support Ticket system, please do not bring these matters up in the public forum.
I mean christ, it's counterproductive to your stated goal to bring direct attention to this here in the thread itself.

/off-topic


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5151718 - 01/07/06 06:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Those are some disgusting, childish debating tactics

I get it, you're pissed because I didn't agree with you in the other thread?

YOU made the claim, so YOU back it up with sources

I've told you my source. A news report on the television.

Either that, or concede that you are wrong.

Why not find a source that proves me wrong instead?




No, I'm pissed b/c you are just as bad as right-wingers who don't know how to behave like adults. You can never admit you are wrong, and it is a damn shame. You make an assertation of some "fact", so you must back it up. Provide a link that confirms Anonymous TV Channel or admit you're incorrect. It's not hard.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: geokills]
    #5152836 - 01/08/06 12:04 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

it's counterproductive to your stated goal to bring direct attention to this here in the thread itself.


It's a little late for that when it's already been brought up isn't it. What difference does it make?

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5152858 - 01/08/06 12:10 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Can't we all just get along:crying:

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: wilshire]
    #5152865 - 01/08/06 12:12 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

someone asked why there is an insurgency now that didn't exist while hussein was in power. one of the reasons i cited was that the current government's policies towards human rights of those who oppose the government is very different than under hussein. i don't see how you can refute this.

Human rights abuses in Iraq are now as bad as they were under Saddam Hussein and are even in danger of eclipsing his record, according to the country's first Prime Minister after the fall of Saddam's regime.

'People are doing the same as [in] Saddam's time and worse,' Ayad Allawi told The Observer. 'It is an appropriate comparison. People are remembering the days of Saddam. These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam and now we are seeing the same things.'

In a damning and wide-ranging indictment of Iraq's escalating human rights catastrophe, Allawi accused fellow Shias in the government of being responsible for death squads and secret torture centres. The brutality of elements in the new security forces rivals that of Saddam's secret police, he said.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1651789,00.html

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5153064 - 01/08/06 01:48 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Can't we all just get along?




Radnall, there can't be anyone as sick as me of having to deal with such uneccessary and utterly childish behaviour. It doesn't like he's ever going to learn. What can you do.

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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5156748 - 01/08/06 11:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Can't we all just get along:crying:




:thumbdown:

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OfflineMisterMyco
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5157352 - 01/09/06 02:48 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:

I've told you my source. A news report on the television.




I just saw a report that said that the standard of living in Iraq is fifteen times better than conditions before the war. I win.


--------------------
"I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural."
Isaac Asimov

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5157367 - 01/09/06 03:04 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The difference is I was telling the truth Myco. As no doubt a quick search on google would confirm for you.

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5157589 - 01/09/06 08:31 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMyco said:
Quote:

Alex213 said:

I've told you my source. A news report on the television.




I just saw a report that said that the standard of living in Iraq is fifteen times better than conditions before the war. I win.




Iraqs standard of living has degraded significantly after the 91 war.

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OfflineMisterMyco
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Re: Should Saddam be reinstated? [Re: Alex213]
    #5158137 - 01/09/06 12:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry, I'm telling the truth. The standards of living in Iraq are higher than they were before the war, the oppressive measures taken by Saddams cruel underlings are a hundredfold the severity of what may be going on there now, their are more doctors in Iraq, more hospitals, more schools, more infrastructure than before the war.


What time period was your fake news story talking about? If it was under the sanctions, which you've claimed starved children, then does that mean you support the sanctions taken by the UN/US against Iraq, since they were doing so swimmingly under them?

http://www.m4radio.com/main/messageboard/571.html
Quote:



Both women said great strides have been made in education, human rights, health care and infrastructure improvements. Iraq has seen schools reopened, refurbished and re-painted. Some 159,000 new desks were distributed to the schools, millions of new textbooks have been printed and 20 million Iraqi citizens now have clean water and sanitation amenities they didn't have before. Teachers are also now making between $300 and $500 a month to teach, which Quinn said is a great deal to the Iraqis.




Quote:


The more than 10 new medical clinics, 400 renovated schools and new police stations planned for the region are slated for construction before the end of the year; each is aimed at improving the aging infrastructure of southern Iraq and adding thousands of jobs across the region.





Quote:



In electricity news, "two electricity generators in suburban Baghdad that had fallen into disrepair under Saddam Hussein's regime returned to service today, producing enough electricity to fuel 72,000 Iraqi homes. Iraqi and U.S. engineers brought the seven-megawatt generator in southern Baghdad and the 17-megawatt generator in north Baghdad online this morning." Electricity production now averages 5,000 megawatts. Fifty megawatts were recently added to the grid through efforts of Iraqi engineers at the Baiji power station.




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The Electricity Ministry is aiming to increase power production to 25,000 megawatts over the next five years. After years of neglect and violence, the electricity infrastructure in Iraq is in such state of disrepair that, according to ministry estimates, it might require somewhere between $30 billion and $50 billion to fully upgrade the grid to modern standards. Foreign governments are already assisting, with the United Arab Emirates agreeing to speed up its contribution of $215 million toward rebuilding Iraqi power system.




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Melted plastic tubing and heat warped glass vials will soon be a thing of the past for doctors and nurses at Ibn Sina Hospital, the busiest medical facility in Iraq and one of only three Level III trauma centres in the country. The reprieve comes courtesy of the first climate-controlled medical storage facility in Iraq, which opened Sunday only metres from the front door of the hospital. The new warehouse will provide an end to the destructive heat, with enough air-conditioned storage space to store tons of medical supplies to treat the county's most seriously wounded soldiers and civilians.




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New pipes buried deep in the walls and floors of the revamped Iraqi airport will soon feed the building with enough clean water for the nearly 4,000 Iraqi laborers that will staff the airport and the thousands of travelers that will soon re-fill the once teaming terminal.

Providing clean water and a viable sewer system for the airport is the final step in a multi-million dollar effort to revive the airport and reopen commercial travel in the southern region.

A $1.3 million renovation project to revamp the water treatment plant is slated for completion by the end of October. The plant was operating at full capacity before the war, pulling millions of liters of water from the nearby river. However, it lacked maintenance and chemicals to render water suitable for human consumption.




Quote:



There is also movement on the water front, with the Ministry of Water Resources allocating "134 billions Iraqi dinars [$92 million] for cleaning small streams and operating and maintaining the water canals." More dams also continue to be constructed throughout Iraq. And speaking of the environment, "the United Nations Environment Programme (Unep) has said it will help Iraq clean up the toxic pollution caused by a decade of conflict. Starting next month, Unep will assess pollution 'hotspots,' ranging from oil spills to waste from military vehicles."




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The troops also continue to be involved in the reconstruction effort. The 1st Infantry Division's Engineers Electricity Ministry Team, for example, is currently overseeing the construction of a health care center for more than 4,000 employees and family members of employees of the Baiji Power Plant. The team is also overseeing construction of a chemical warehouse to improve operational capacity at the thermal power plant.




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Soldiers from the 133rd Engineer Battalion are working on a series of projects in the rural village of Hamzan in northern Iraq. The National Guard Soldiers from Belfast, Maine, replaced the village's small mud schoolhouse with a concrete structure. The new school has three classrooms with plumbing and electricity.




Quote:


In addition to rebuilding the village school, the engineers brought in a 20,000-liter water tank and a 75-kilowatt generator which will serve the 17 families in the area who do not have plumbing or electricity. They also improved the local roads which were in disrepair.




Quote:


The 478th Civil Affairs Battalion, meanwhile, continues its good work in Iraq: "The battalion has opened four health clinics, and each one can handle more than 60,000 people, he said. The battalion is working to get a $1.2 million maternity clinic approved and ready for residents. But it was a youth center that drew more enthusiastic responses and large crowds. The battalion revamped a security personnel building into a youth-friendly environment with video games and the Internet. The kids can go there, instead of congregating in the streets, [Spc. Erich] Scholz said. 'You won't believe how many kids are here,' he said."




Quote:


In the south of the country, Coalition partners are carrying their own reconstruction projects: "In the Multi-National Division Central South area of Babil Province, the Polish-led Civil Military Cooperation team (CIMIC) has completed a $258,000 renovation of Babylon University's 2,000-student law school in Al Hilla. . . . During clashes in the province, almost all University of Babylon equipment, furniture and plumbing and electrical utilities were stolen or damaged, so the first part of the two-phase project focused on repairing the water, electrical wiring and cable systems for a cost of about $79,000. The second stage was completed in mid-September for a total of about $179,000. New furnishings and air conditioners were bought and installed, and a new fence was placed around the building. About 10,000 students attend the University of Babylon."




Quote:



A year and a half ago, Ari Askanda would have been risking death selling Western music and DVDs from his small shop on the main street of Biyara in Iraq's Kurdish zone. Now he even sells alcohol under the counter.






Your source now, please?


--------------------
"I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural."
Isaac Asimov

Edited by MisterMyco (01/09/06 12:24 PM)

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