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 missulena
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 Australian aboriginals 
#513927 - 01/08/02 12:28 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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The post on American Indians made me wonder what peoples opinions or thoughts are on Australian Aboriginals way of life, artwork, intiation rituals or anything to do with them really that isnt hateful.
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Anonymous
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 Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: missulena]
#513930 - 01/08/02 12:34 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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aboriganals kick ass they believe in living off nature without any outside interference kinda like the pygmese*...
actually im just drunk and talking out of my ass
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missulena
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: Anonymous]
#514019 - 01/08/02 02:02 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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thanks anyway.....have a good one
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gnrm23
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: missulena]
#514107 - 01/08/02 05:50 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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dreamtime is the real world...
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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ArchDruid
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: gnrm23]
#514355 - 01/08/02 12:39 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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One of the most beautiful ORIGINAL cultures that have ever existed. The fact that some still exist EXACTLY like they would have a thousand years ago is astounding to me. They also have it credited to them the first musical instrument ever comprised, the digeredo(sp?). I plan on going on a walkabout in a few years, I have the oportunity to so I may as well take advantage. The theory of the dream time is so beautiful to me, their art is well I cant even think of a word for it.
Well enough said about my opinion, basicall Im enthralled.
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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."
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Tannis
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 Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: missulena]
#514357 - 01/08/02 12:43 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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After some recent insights which shifted my focus and consciousness---I'm unavailable because I'm on a "walk-about" in my mind and life..... .....Tannis
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Traveller
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: ArchDruid]
#514941 - 01/08/02 10:55 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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while I also have a lot of respect for and fascination with the aboriginal cultures of australia i think there can be a tendency to...what's the word i'm looking for here...over-romanticize??! their ways which most of us still really know very little about. sure we've heard of the dreamtime and know they lived off the land, had intimate knowledge of their environment etc but beyond that I know very little and 99% of australians know very little and the few elders that are left are old and dying and most young aboriginals are more interested in money and girls than in learning an entire cultural system in order to keep it alive. and as far as I know there are no groups of aborigines living exactly like they did a thousand years ago...could be wrong there but I know that there are a few small groups trying really hard to keep the knowledge alive. I forget who it is but i think whoever started this thread has been studying aboriginal culture so hopefully he can shed a bit more light...but then that's the point of this thread isn't it to see what people around the world (specifically shroomers at the shroomery) think of aboriginal culture, what perceptions and mis-perceptions they might have about them. I like many here would love to learn more!
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missulena
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: Traveller]
#514996 - 01/09/02 12:03 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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No i dont know that much about Aboriginals but i have heard that on an expedition to find a rare python specie in Northern western Australia in the very remote and largely unexplored Kimberly ranges some scientists believed they were being watched and found footprints in the sand near there campsite the following morning-no one was known to be within many kilometres from where they were.
Edited by missulena (01/09/02 12:07 AM)
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Traveller
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: missulena]
#515036 - 01/09/02 01:22 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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cool! if they were to be anywhere, it would be northwestern australia I guess. such a big place it's not that hard to believe there are still a few little tribes going about their business unnoticed...
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Anonymous
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 Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: gnrm23]
#515044 - 01/09/02 01:38 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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what is Dreamtime?
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Anonymous
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: Anonymous]
#515056 - 01/09/02 01:58 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dreamtime is exactly that...time spent in dreams. It is an integral part of their culture since they believe that the dreamworld is as important as waking reality. To them, dreams are just as real as when they are awake.
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wintertime
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: ]
#515100 - 01/09/02 03:46 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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The 'Dreaming' (its better not to use the word Dreamtime because their notion of the Dreaming is beyond a western notion of time) isn't just the time when they are sleeping.
Okay here we go.. :) The Dreaming is (if I had to draw a link) their version of the Bible I suppose. It encompasses their core beliefs about existance : 'the Land' (the Earth, in a western translation) , 'the Law' (the rules that were given unto them by the creative ancestors), 'the Creative Spirits' (the beings that carved out the land from a shapeless mass and gave it features such as hills and lakes), and Creation.
I don't want to get too theoretical here, but you know how Christians use rituals such as Communion to experience the power of Jesus? Well Aboriginies dance, sing and have initiatory rites to actually bring the power of the Creation into the present day. Thats why at Church they say "this IS the body of Christ"; not, "this symbolises the body of Christ", it actually is meant to be his body.
Anyway... :) There are almost certainly no tribes living exactly as they did before white settlement. That would be very very unlikely. I hate to say it, but the pre-white Aboriginal religion is dead; it died when we killed the Land. It would be like someone killing God to Christians, the Land was basically their God (again, this is a very sloppy way to put it, but it makes it easier to understand, for me anyway.) What we have seen recently in Australia is a tribes bringing back elements of their religion and fusing it with Christianity, for example, in some tribes, they have included Jesus in their Dreaming stories.
I've got more information here than I know what to do with about this sort of stuff, but I am still quite an amatuer. If anyone has any corrections/questions about what i've written, let me hear it, I'd be very interested.
later all
Edited by wintertime (01/09/02 03:48 AM)
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gnrm23
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: wintertime]
#515251 - 01/09/02 09:03 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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some of the guys from "yes" (rick wakeman et al.) did a song a decade or so ago about the effect of nuclear testing in the aussie desert on abo dreamtime... very haunting lyrics...
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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ArchDruid
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: gnrm23]
#515645 - 01/09/02 05:54 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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My research yeilds a bit of a different description of what "Dream time" is. It's going to sound a bit vulgur, because its hard to put stuff like this into words.
The dream time is what aboriginals call the "primevil" time i guess you could say, it refers to a time when man could turn into a beast and beast into man, and their "gods" walked among them. They were all part of a central life forces. When all was connected in unison it is refered to as the "Dream time", basically the pre-history of the aboriginal peole. A time when things were still being formed, they say giant animals of different kinds formed the land. That occured in the "dream time".
It's interesting (I'll try to find it again), the aboriginal history (which is all but lost now), speaks of "beings from the sky" coming to earth after the dream time. Could this be aliens, like the ones who built the first pyramids?
I do believe than some still live today "much" like they did today, it would be to hopefull of me to assume "exactly".
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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."
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Traveller
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: ArchDruid]
#515855 - 01/09/02 09:57 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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interestingly enough, there is one story which I believe is common to many if not all the aboriginal australians - of the rainbow serpent. a gigantic rainbow coloured snake that carved great valleys and gorges through the land as it moved around long loooooong ago.
when i get back to australia next year i'll be able to help out with plenty more info, since several of my friends have been hanging out in arnhemland learning this past year! I certainly plan to head out that way myself and start learning how to survive in the beautiful endless australian wilderness. it really is up to us now don't you think? if this old knowledge is to survive then WE have to get out there and learn as much of it as we can.
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 mr crisper
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: missulena]
#516855 - 01/10/02 09:48 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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i cannot claim any expertise here but i was in nw australia last september for a friends wedding.
my friends job is creating dictionaries of the regional indigenous languages, to do this he goes `walkabout` with one of the elders who teaches him the names of places, animals and tells stories.
at the wedding were many of the tribal elders from the `halls creek mob`, most of them didnt speak english, or only a little.
i was lucky enough to spend an afternoon, sitting under a tree with my friends teacher, stan brumby, stan speaks 16 languages, his english was about elementary level and he cannot read or write.
he told me that people who speak `the language` communicate with wandjina. the wandjina are the classic alien looking beings that are often featured in australian cave paintings, tall stick-like beings with big black eyes and big glowing white heads. he told me his wandjina friends show him where too find food and water and guide him thru life.
it seems the whole culture is tied up in language, story telling, initiations, sacred secret words. the young generations havent learnt these languages and when these elders die, so too will their culture. that is why he is teaching my friend so that together they can try to keep it alive.
strangely, when i tried to discuss with my friend these subjects he got shitty with me and denied everything. `its just a language` he reckons.
also, i used to work with an old guy, whose job in the 50`s and 60`s was driving around the desert rounding up any `stray` tribes and families. many times his was the first white face they had ever seen. he used to take them to christian missions, where they would be washed, clothed and put to work weaving baskets, then they could catch colds, influenza or measles and die...no immunity.
their children were sent to perth and put in homes as `servants`, these are the so-called `stolen generation`.
until 1966, the indigenous people of australia did not have australian citizenship and at least in the north of west aus, could not enter any town without police escort, nor were they allowed to roam free.
sorry i could bitch on for hours about the atrocities, i guess you get the picture.
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missulena
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: wintertime]
#516977 - 01/11/02 12:07 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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The rainbow serpent is actually based on a real snake called a water python that is olive in colour but has an irridescent sheen in certain light
Edited by missulena (01/11/02 12:42 AM)
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missulena
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: wintertime]
#517072 - 01/11/02 02:12 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Can you tell me why there would not be an undiscovered aboriginal tribe around the lower drainage areas of the hunter or mitchell river near their junctures with prince fredrick harbour. This area is basicly unexplored and the only people who have got near this site did it by helicopter and they were scientists who believed that they were being watched.
Edited by missulena (01/11/02 02:15 AM)
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wintertime
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: ArchDruid]
#517082 - 01/11/02 02:50 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I should have been a bit clearer, you are certainly right, the creation time where the earth was given shape by Spirits who lived inside the earth and when ethics and rituals were created, are part of the Dreaming. This is the time when the myths that most of us will be familiar with originated, they are stories that explain how things were created, such as the Rainbow Serpent which has been mentioned.
But this is only a part of the Dreaming (or Dreamtime), the Dreaming is seen as being everwhere and everywhen.
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MagicRooms
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 Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: missulena]
#517086 - 01/11/02 02:56 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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When I was a kid I lived in Darwin and travelled all over the N.T. I visited many camp sites where Aboriginals lived. The camp sites were set up around a drilling rig and many hundreds of miles from any towns, so the men would take turns going out on fishing and hunting trips so we could all eat. Yarms, grubs, lizards, snakes, barra, ants etc was the grub, nothing would be wasted. Stories around the campfire was the entertainment. Everybody was in tune with the enviroment and seemed to know when the weather would change. But that was 30 years ago, things have changed.
Edited by MagicRooms (01/11/02 03:00 AM)
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wintertime
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: missulena]
#517087 - 01/11/02 02:57 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm not sure how they could tell they were being watched, especially from a helicopter, but there is a POSSIBILITY that there still could be undiscovered tribes, not a very good one IMHO. If hypothetically there was an undiscovered tribe, they probably would have felt some effects of European settlement, eg planes flying overhead? Also, Australian Aboriginals were nomadic, they travelled great distances, albeit in certain terrirtories they were familiar with, and did have interaction with other tribes.
I forgot to mention in my above post, possibly the "beings from the sky" you refer to could in fact be white man? When they first settled in 1788, they were mistaken for Ancestor Spirits (the ones who created the earth's features, by the way, i don't say created the earth, because they believe that the earth had always existed).
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missulena
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: wintertime]
#517597 - 01/11/02 04:06 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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They got droped off by a helicopter and than canoed up a gorge and made a camp site there, its all in an issue of Australian geographic from about 8 years ago. The python they were looking for was called a rough scaled python
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ArchDruid
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: wintertime]
#517954 - 01/11/02 10:41 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Magicshrooms - I do belive you are the luckiest guy I have ever known to exist, I would give anything for one of those nights you experienced..
Wintertime - no, I know when the white people came in there history, but there is a seperate incident LONG, LONG before that. Some sort of sky sprits they say, came and visited and then left through the sky.
Could that also have something to do with that ziggurat that was discovered off the coast of Japan. Do you think that aboriginal people could have built it, and then when the Ainu came to japan, they were maybe moved south? huh, to many questions that will probebly never be answered
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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."
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MagicRooms
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 Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: ArchDruid]
#518111 - 01/12/02 02:15 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Visit this site to find out more.
http://aboriginalart.com.au/culture/dreamtime.html
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wintertime
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: MagicRooms]
#518273 - 01/12/02 07:07 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Song chant incessantly to the accompaniment of the didgeridoo or clap sticks relates the story of events of those early times and brings to the power of the dreaming to bear of life today. "
thats what i was trying to say in one of my posts above.. a bit clearer here.
anyway.. even if there is an undiscovered tribe, does it really matter? it's only a matter of time before they are discovered and their idyllic world is destroyed like the others. it's sad, but thats what happened.
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MagicRooms
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: wintertime]
#518564 - 01/12/02 02:33 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have a didgeridoo made from and ironbark tree, handcarved and painted the traditional way with bees wax. Now they make doo's out of PVC pipe and slide them in and out to make a sound effect. That's progress????
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TheCaptain
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: MagicRooms]
#518869 - 01/12/02 09:39 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Interesting post here... I'd like ot share my .02 if y'all wouldnt mind...
As far as undiscovered tribes go, from an anthropological perspective there are no more "undiscovered" elements of human civilizations existing in the world today. At one time or another all of these indigenous people have had some form of contact with "civilized" societies.
As far as the didge goes, the aborigines know the instrument as a Yidaki, didge is the white name given by settlers. My understanding is that aborigiinals made didge's out of whatever materials were available to them. I guess now, with the influence of western society into aboriginal culture, the two are merging into a hybrid where elemnts of both cultures are becoming one. Media has a lot to do with this too, we get much more exposed to thier culture from tv and stuff. Ive lost count of how many times people have said "Thats that THING from SURVIVOR!" when ive been playing my didge...
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"I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. 'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are."
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missulena
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: TheCaptain]
#518908 - 01/12/02 10:23 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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If there undiscovered than they have only been indirectly influenced by us e.g theve seen an aeroplane fly by, we wouldnt know about them, are you saying that the earth has been that thoroughly explored that its impossible even in Australia that a small tribe could go about its buisness and not know about white people?
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Swami
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: MagicRooms]
#519112 - 01/13/02 03:46 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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And what is unsacred about PVC pipe? The ironwood pipe is just as manufactured as any other musical instrument.
It is the expression that is magical, not the mediium. Thought you of all people would understand that...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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MagicRooms
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Re: Australian aboriginals [Re: Swami]
#520010 - 01/14/02 01:30 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Swami
If you think searching the forest for a hollow tree, cutting it down, trimming to the correct size and shape, burning the inside with hot ash to get the correct sound, hand painting and finishing off the ironbark with bees wax is the same as extruding a piece of PVC and cutting it with a hacksaw, that's your opinon. I said nothing about being unsacred? I said that's progress for you! I also made no mention of the medium of expression.
I prefer to play my traditional doo, but that's just me.
Edited by MagicRooms (01/14/02 01:32 AM)
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