Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomCube.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives
    #5125709 - 12/31/05 11:03 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The 70th anniversary wasn't noticed in the United States, and was barely reported in the corporate media. But the Germans remembered well that fateful day seventy years ago - February 27, 1933. They commemorated the anniversary by joining in demonstrations for peace that mobilized citizens all across the world.

It started when the government, in the midst of a worldwide economic crisis, received reports of an imminent terrorist attack. A foreign ideologue had launched feeble attacks on a few famous buildings, but the media largely ignored his relatively small efforts. The intelligence services knew, however, that the odds were he would eventually succeed. (Historians are still arguing whether or not rogue elements in the intelligence service helped the terrorist; the most recent research implies they did not.)

But the warnings of investigators were ignored at the highest levels, in part because the government was distracted; the man who claimed to be the nation's leader had not been elected by a majority vote and the majority of citizens claimed he had no right to the powers he coveted. He was a simpleton, some said, a cartoon character of a man who saw things in black-and-white terms and didn't have the intellect to understand the subtleties of running a nation in a complex and internationalist world. His coarse use of language - reflecting his political roots in a southernmost state - and his simplistic and often-inflammatory nationalistic rhetoric offended the aristocrats, foreign leaders, and the well-educated elite in the government and media. And, as a young man, he'd joined a secret society with an occult-sounding name and bizarre initiation rituals that involved skulls and human bones.

Nonetheless, he knew the terrorist was going to strike (although he didn't know where or when), and he had already considered his response. When an aide brought him word that the nation's most prestigious building was ablaze, he verified it was the terrorist who had struck and then rushed to the scene and called a press conference.

"You are now witnessing the beginning of a great epoch in history," he proclaimed, standing in front of the burned-out building, surrounded by national media. "This fire," he said, his voice trembling with emotion, "is the beginning." He used the occasion - "a sign from God," he called it - to declare an all-out war on terrorism and its ideological sponsors, a people, he said, who traced their origins to the Middle East and found motivation for their evil deeds in their religion.

Two weeks later, the first detention center for terrorists was built in Oranianberg to hold the first suspected allies of the infamous terrorist. In a national outburst of patriotism, the leader's flag was everywhere, even printed large in newspapers suitable for window display.

Within four weeks of the terrorist attack, the nation's now-popular leader had pushed through legislation - in the name of combating terrorism and fighting the philosophy he said spawned it - that suspended constitutional guarantees of free speech, privacy, and habeas corpus. Police could now intercept mail and wiretap phones; suspected terrorists could be imprisoned without specific charges and without access to their lawyers; police could sneak into people's homes without warrants if the cases involved terrorism.

To get his patriotic "Decree on the Protection of People and State" passed over the objections of concerned legislators and civil libertarians, he agreed to put a 4-year sunset provision on it: if the national emergency provoked by the terrorist attack was over by then, the freedoms and rights would be returned to the people, and the police agencies would be re-restrained. Legislators would later say they hadn't had time to read the bill before voting on it.

Immediately after passage of the anti-terrorism act, his federal police agencies stepped up their program of arresting suspicious persons and holding them without access to lawyers or courts. In the first year only a few hundred were interred, and those who objected were largely ignored by the mainstream press, which was afraid to offend and thus lose access to a leader with such high popularity ratings. Citizens who protested the leader in public - and there were many - quickly found themselves confronting the newly empowered police's batons, gas, and jail cells, or fenced off in protest zones safely out of earshot of the leader's public speeches. (In the meantime, he was taking almost daily lessons in public speaking, learning to control his tonality, gestures, and facial expressions. He became a very competent orator.)

Within the first months after that terrorist attack, at the suggestion of a political advisor, he brought a formerly obscure word into common usage. He wanted to stir a "racial pride" among his countrymen, so, instead of referring to the nation by its name, he began to refer to it as "The Homeland," a phrase publicly promoted in the introduction to a 1934 speech recorded in Leni Riefenstahl's famous propaganda movie "Triumph Of The Will." As hoped, people's hearts swelled with pride, and the beginning of an us-versus-them mentality was sewn. Our land was "the" homeland, citizens thought: all others were simply foreign lands. We are the "true people," he suggested, the only ones worthy of our nation's concern; if bombs fall on others, or human rights are violated in other nations and it makes our lives better, it's of little concern to us.

Playing on this new nationalism, and exploiting a disagreement with the French over his increasing militarism, he argued that any international body that didn't act first and foremost in the best interest of his own nation was neither relevant nor useful. He thus withdrew his country from the League Of Nations in October, 1933, and then negotiated a separate naval armaments agreement with Anthony Eden of The United Kingdom to create a worldwide military ruling elite.

His propaganda minister orchestrated a campaign to ensure the people that he was a deeply religious man and that his motivations were rooted in Christianity. He even proclaimed the need for a revival of the Christian faith across his nation, what he called a "New Christianity." Every man in his rapidly growing army wore a belt buckle that declared "Gott Mit Uns" - God Is With Us - and most of them fervently believed it was true.

Within a year of the terrorist attack, the nation's leader determined that the various local police and federal agencies around the nation were lacking the clear communication and overall coordinated administration necessary to deal with the terrorist threat facing the nation, particularly those citizens who were of Middle Eastern ancestry and thus probably terrorist and communist sympathizers, and various troublesome "intellectuals" and "liberals." He proposed a single new national agency to protect the security of the homeland, consolidating the actions of dozens of previously independent police, border, and investigative agencies under a single leader.

He appointed one of his most trusted associates to be leader of this new agency, the Central Security Office for the homeland, and gave it a role in the government equal to the other major departments.

His assistant who dealt with the press noted that, since the terrorist attack, "Radio and press are at out disposal." Those voices questioning the legitimacy of their nation's leader, or raising questions about his checkered past, had by now faded from the public's recollection as his central security office began advertising a program encouraging people to phone in tips about suspicious neighbors. This program was so successful that the names of some of the people "denounced" were soon being broadcast on radio stations. Those denounced often included opposition politicians and celebrities who dared speak out - a favorite target of his regime and the media he now controlled through intimidation and ownership by corporate allies.

To consolidate his power, he concluded that government alone wasn't enough. He reached out to industry and forged an alliance, bringing former executives of the nation's largest corporations into high government positions. A flood of government money poured into corporate coffers to fight the war against the Middle Eastern ancestry terrorists lurking within the homeland, and to prepare for wars overseas. He encouraged large corporations friendly to him to acquire media outlets and other industrial concerns across the nation, particularly those previously owned by suspicious people of Middle Eastern ancestry. He built powerful alliances with industry; one corporate ally got the lucrative contract worth millions to build the first large-scale detention center for enemies of the state. Soon more would follow. Industry flourished.

But after an interval of peace following the terrorist attack, voices of dissent again arose within and without the government. Students had started an active program opposing him (later known as the White Rose Society), and leaders of nearby nations were speaking out against his bellicose rhetoric. He needed a diversion, something to direct people away from the corporate cronyism being exposed in his own government, questions of his possibly illegitimate rise to power, and the oft-voiced concerns of civil libertarians about the people being held in detention without due process or access to attorneys or family.

With his number two man - a master at manipulating the media - he began a campaign to convince the people of the nation that a small, limited war was necessary. Another nation was harboring many of the suspicious Middle Eastern people, and even though its connection with the terrorist who had set afire the nation's most important building was tenuous at best, it held resources their nation badly needed if they were to have room to live and maintain their prosperity. He called a press conference and publicly delivered an ultimatum to the leader of the other nation, provoking an international uproar. He claimed the right to strike preemptively in self-defense, and nations across Europe - at first - denounced him for it, pointing out that it was a doctrine only claimed in the past by nations seeking worldwide empire, like Caesar's Rome or Alexander's Greece.

It took a few months, and intense international debate and lobbying with European nations, but, after he personally met with the leader of the United Kingdom, finally a deal was struck. After the military action began, Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain told the nervous British people that giving in to this leader's new first-strike doctrine would bring "peace for our time." Thus Hitler annexed Austria in a lightning move, riding a wave of popular support as leaders so often do in times of war. The Austrian government was unseated and replaced by a new leadership friendly to Germany, and German corporations began to take over Austrian resources.

In a speech responding to critics of the invasion, Hitler said, "Certain foreign newspapers have said that we fell on Austria with brutal methods. I can only say; even in death they cannot stop lying. I have in the course of my political struggle won much love from my people, but when I crossed the former frontier [into Austria] there met me such a stream of love as I have never experienced. Not as tyrants have we come, but as liberators."

To deal with those who dissented from his policies, at the advice of his politically savvy advisors, he and his handmaidens in the press began a campaign to equate him and his policies with patriotism and the nation itself. National unity was essential, they said, to ensure that the terrorists or their sponsors didn't think they'd succeeded in splitting the nation or weakening its will. In times of war, they said, there could be only "one people, one nation, and one commander-in-chief" ("Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer"), and so his advocates in the media began a nationwide campaign charging that critics of his policies were attacking the nation itself. Those questioning him were labeled "anti-German" or "not good Germans," and it was suggested they were aiding the enemies of the state by failing in the patriotic necessity of supporting the nation's valiant men in uniform. It was one of his most effective ways to stifle dissent and pit wage-earning people (from whom most of the army came) against the "intellectuals and liberals" who were critical of his policies.

Nonetheless, once the "small war" annexation of Austria was successfully and quickly completed, and peace returned, voices of opposition were again raised in the Homeland. The almost-daily release of news bulletins about the dangers of terrorist communist cells wasn't enough to rouse the populace and totally suppress dissent. A full-out war was necessary to divert public attention from the growing rumbles within the country about disappearing dissidents; violence against liberals, Jews, and union leaders; and the epidemic of crony capitalism that was producing empires of wealth in the corporate sector but threatening the middle class's way of life.

A year later, to the week, Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia; the nation was now fully at war, and all internal dissent was suppressed in the name of national security. It was the end of Germany's first experiment with democracy.

As we conclude this review of history, there are a few milestones worth remembering.

February 27, 2003, was the 70th anniversary of Dutch terrorist Marinus van der Lubbe's successful firebombing of the German Parliament (Reichstag) building, the terrorist act that catapulted Hitler to legitimacy and reshaped the German constitution. By the time of his successful and brief action to seize Austria, in which almost no German blood was shed, Hitler was the most beloved and popular leader in the history of his nation. Hailed around the world, he was later Time magazine's "Man Of The Year."

Most Americans remember his office for the security of the homeland, known as the Reichssicherheitshauptamt and its SchutzStaffel, simply by its most famous agency's initials: the SS.

We also remember that the Germans developed a new form of highly violent warfare they named "lightning war" or blitzkrieg, which, while generating devastating civilian losses, also produced a highly desirable "shock and awe" among the nation's leadership according to the authors of the 1996 book "Shock And Awe" published by the National Defense University Press.

Reflecting on that time, The American Heritage Dictionary (Houghton Mifflin Company, 1983) left us this definition of the form of government the German democracy had become through Hitler's close alliance with the largest German corporations and his policy of using war as a tool to keep power: "fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."

Today, as we face financial and political crises, it's useful to remember that the ravages of the Great Depression hit Germany and the United States alike. Through the 1930s, however, Hitler and Roosevelt chose very different courses to bring their nations back to power and prosperity.

Germany's response was to use government to empower corporations and reward the society's richest individuals, privatize much of the commons, stifle dissent, strip people of constitutional rights, and create an illusion of prosperity through continual and ever-expanding war. America passed minimum wage laws to raise the middle class, enforced anti-trust laws to diminish the power of corporations, increased taxes on corporations and the wealthiest individuals, created Social Security, and became the employer of last resort through programs to build national infrastructure, promote the arts, and replant forests.

To the extent that our Constitution is still intact, the choice is again ours.

Thom Hartmann lived and worked in Germany during the 1980s, and is the author of over a dozen books, including "Unser Ausgebrannter Planet." This article was originally published by Thom in shorter form around 9/11 of last year under the pseudonym "Rusticus," a character in his book "Unequal Protection." This version is copyright by Thom Hartmann, but permission is granted for reprint in print, email, blog, or web media so long as this credit is attached.

http://www.awitness.org/journal/bush_hitler.html


Think about it...



Hermann Goering, Hitler's deputy:

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5125737 - 12/31/05 11:15 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."




Works even better when there is no need to tell them they've been attacked -- when they can turn on their televisions and see for themselves hijacked airliners crashing into buildings and stuff.




Phred


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Phred]
    #5125831 - 12/31/05 11:57 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

In 1961 The joint chiefs of staff drew up and approved a plan to create false terror attacks in or around the U.S. The aim of this plan was to drum up American support for military action against Cuba.

The plan was called "Project Northwoods" and the documentation can be found here:

http://cryptome.quintessenz.org/mirror/jcs-corrupt.htm

The plan was never implemented, but it shows the willingness of those in power to put lives in jeopardy to achieve political ends. Many scenarios were presented with this operation, each would have been televised for everyone to see...as that is the point of such operations...to manufacture false consent for a war that the public would otherwise not consent to.

Plans like this ARE made, and people do die by the hands of their own governments, as nothing more than a means to achieve and ends...

Just because you cannot fathom the evilness behind an act of conspiracy doesn't mean that it didn't take place.

With that said...

I won't say that the people behind PNAC did or did not stage 9/11, in my mind the chances are about 50/50, but only an idiot would "just believe it" because they saw it on T.V,...

The whole reason that your constitution is so good is because your founding fathers knew that mankind's worst enemy will always be it's rulers, it's governments, and those who crave absolute power...


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5125887 - 12/31/05 12:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:

I won't say that the people behind PNAC did or did not stage 9/11, in my mind the chances are about 50/50, but only an idiot would "just believe it" because they saw it on T.V,...





I have a very different opinion about what only idiots would believe


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5125954 - 12/31/05 12:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

What about the people who were in NY when it happened? Did the gov't create some complex hologram of two planes colliding with the buildings?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126089 - 12/31/05 01:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
What about the people who were in NY when it happened? Did the gov't create some complex hologram of two planes colliding with the buildings?




Don't be an idiot. Obviously it happened...

Jesus help me, that may have been the stupidest thing I have heard to date, holograms?
Really?
That's you're argument?...

Please.

If you want to argue my position that the attacks COULD have been staged, then at least come at me with something of substance.

I am no loony and I will not allow you to make my words out to be lunacy.

I brought up a historical instance of the American government plotting the manipulation of the American public into war by manufacturing a false terrorist attack...

Only to show you that you MAY be being deceived.

What do you have in return?

Holograms?

Someone, please show me where the American government is NOT behind this attack and I will gladly concede. Because I want it to not be true...

However I have the PNAC doctrine, the words of Paul Wolfawitz, one of the founding members of PNAC, and the Northwoods thing to sway me into a neutral position.

I'm not saying that 9/11 was a sham. I'm saying that it COULD have been.

And what do you have?

Propaganda?

It's not good enough...

Sorry.

Prove me wrong...


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5126107 - 12/31/05 01:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

However I have the PNAC doctrine, the words of Paul Wolfawitz, one of the founding members of PNAC, and the Northwoods thing to sway me into a neutral position.




Which way do groups that strap bombs to people, blow up crowded public areas, and call for the destruction of America and Isreal sway you?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5126116 - 12/31/05 01:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Don't be an idiot. Obviously it happened...

Jesus help me, that may have been the stupidest thing I have heard to date, holograms?




Flaming is not allowed. You will receive a warning for this when a mod sees it.

Quote:


Someone, please show me where the American government is NOT behind this attack and I will gladly concede. Because I want it to not be true...




I can not prove to you that the US did not stage these attacks, just as you can not prove that they did. Neither you or I are privy to the information that would be needed to determine what is true. In my opinion, it is absurd to believe that the United States gov't undertook these attacks. There are no good motives for this sort of action that could not be fulfilled by less dramatic and damaging actions.

I am quite the skeptic of government action; ask anyone here. I just have no time for loony-tunes speculation that has little to no concrete proof backing it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126305 - 12/31/05 02:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

if any jerkwater police dept was handling the 9/11 investigation..the first question they would have asked was .."who stands the most to gain?"..and the prime suspects for the crime would have been whoever was the answer to that question...so why then..did the FBI not ask that question (or at the very least..purposely produced a wrong answer)??...there are two(2) possible answers ..either the standards of the FBI are lower than those of the jerkwater PD.. or else they have deliberately avoided it..which is only possible if bush&co instructed them to do so.. ie if the investigators were under the auspices of the criminals...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5126311 - 12/31/05 02:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Why do you believe the gov't had the most to gain?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126312 - 12/31/05 02:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:


Don't be an idiot. Obviously it happened...

Jesus help me, that may have been the stupidest thing I have heard to date, holograms?




Flaming is not allowed. You will receive a warning for this when a mod sees it.

Quote:


Someone, please show me where the American government is NOT behind this attack and I will gladly concede. Because I want it to not be true...




I can not prove to you that the US did not stage these attacks, just as you can not prove that they did. Neither you or I are privy to the information that would be needed to determine what is true. In my opinion, it is absurd to believe that the United States gov't undertook these attacks. There are no good motives for this sort of action that could not be fulfilled by less dramatic and damaging actions.

I am quite the skeptic of government action; ask anyone here. I just have no time for loony-tunes speculation that has little to no concrete proof backing it.




First off, please mods, warn me if I have broken the rules, but I call a spade a spade man...and this is one of those times...

Where in my post did I say that the 9/11 attacks were a fucking hologram?

You were attempting to undermine my post by being sarcastic and posting something ludicrous as to discredit me...that's childish and stupid, so if I get warned, so be it.

I also hope that the mods have enough sense to see that your post WAS stupid, and I that I am not trying to flame you brother...

In fact I myself am the king of stupid statements, and am willing to admit freely that I know nothing about anything, and therefore try not to discredit others with my own stupidity, as you should also.

As far as 9/11, you said it yourself...

You can't prove that it was NOT your government any more that I can prove that it WAS. Therefore you are "just taking their word for it"...

No?



Which means that it IS possible that the attacks of 9/11 were a sham, just as the "attacks" on Germany that consolidated Hitler's power are still under debate, so is 9/11...

The whole point to this thread was just to show that what has happened before CAN happen again...

In fact, I think it is happening again.

I said nowhere in any of my arguments that this is anything more than a possibility, and as such, it CANNOT be ruled out OR ruled in, just kept in mind for later, when it becomes obvious either way....

Don't be so quick to brand me a "loony-toon" redstorm, you may eat those words really quickly if your people don't wake up before it is too late.

The time that your founding fathers made the second amendment for is now!

Stop arguing with me and polish your weapon...


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126314 - 12/31/05 02:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

because they have gained the most...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126325 - 12/31/05 02:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Why do you believe the gov't had the most to gain?




Power and control.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5126329 - 12/31/05 02:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Islamic extremists have gained sympathy, membership, and widespread media attention b/c of it. I don't think it is really that clear who gained more from the attacks.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5126355 - 12/31/05 02:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You can't prove that it was NOT your government any more that I can prove that it WAS.




That is not a valid argument because you can't prove that something didn't happen. Debate 101.

Quote:

In fact I myself am the king of stupid statements, and am willing to admit freely that I know nothing about anything, and therefore try not to discredit others with my own stupidity, as you should also.





Calling someone an idiot would fall into that category. At least you tried.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Catalysis]
    #5126364 - 12/31/05 02:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Just what would you accept as proof? Not that your requirement is of any consequence other than moot argument.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5126368 - 12/31/05 02:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry that was for Mr 50%.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126417 - 12/31/05 03:14 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Why do you believe the gov't had the most to gain?




Well let's see, there is the matter of a huge natural gas pipeline in Afghanistan, constructed by haliburton, bought, sold, and built by Bush's oil buddies...

There's a lot of oil in Iraq too, bought, sold, and built by Bush's oil buddies, and there is also the question of the threatened oil bourse by Iran, which would hurt Bush and his oil buddies...

Have you heard of this Oil Bourse yet, redstorm?

Google it, you won't hear about it on CNN, but I assure you it's the real reason for Iran being next.

Iran had threatened to start trading oil in Euros by march of 2006...

This would cause Bush-co many dollars...

Funny how Israel has threatened to attack Iran by March of 2006, same month as the proposed Bourse, therefore keeping them from trading in Euros instead of the American dollar, keeping the oil dictators in sweet money for awhile...

Also funny how The Avian flu epidemic has dried up, eh?

I guess Rummy, who stands to make many untold millions off Tammiflu, has also had his fill...and told your fear mongering manipulated media to stand down for a while, not to get off topic, but wake up dude!

Your government is lining their own pockets at the expense of your military and your people, and you are defending them?

But then again, perhaps the Haliburton rebuilding of Iraq, the Haliburton building of the Caspian Sea pipeline in Afghanistan, the Iranian oil Bourse, the avian flu scare for Rummy, who used to sit on the board for the company that makes Tammiflu, and all the other big world events that directly benefit those currently in power are all just coincidences...

Maybe... :rolleyes:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5126438 - 12/31/05 03:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I see how it benefits international corporations, but how does it benefit the government? They are not one and the same.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Catalysis]
    #5126449 - 12/31/05 03:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Quote:

You can't prove that it was NOT your government any more that I can prove that it WAS.




That is not a valid argument because you can't prove that something didn't happen. Debate 101.

Quote:

In fact I myself am the king of stupid statements, and am willing to admit freely that I know nothing about anything, and therefore try not to discredit others with my own stupidity, as you should also.





Calling someone an idiot would fall into that category. At least you tried.




So because I am an idiot, I can't call his statement idiotic?

I came out with previous examples of government corruption and he comes back at me with holograms?

I may be an idiot, but C'mon...

I don't want or need proof of anything, I really don't even care. This thread is about POSSIBILITIES, and I think it is possible that you are headed the way of Nazi Germany...

I can see the parallels, why can't you?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5126463 - 12/31/05 03:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Well let's see, there is the matter of a huge natural gas pipeline in Afghanistan, constructed by haliburton, bought, sold, and built by Bush's oil buddies...




You are of course aware there is no such pipeline. For that matter, there is not even a contract awarded to build such a pipeline, much less one awarded to Halliburton.

Quote:

There's a lot of oil in Iraq too, bought, sold, and built by Bush's oil buddies, and there is also the question of the threatened oil bourse by Iran, which would hurt Bush and his oil buddies...




You are of course aware that the government of Iraq decides who gets the oil they sell, and that the oil the US buys from Iraq (yes, that's right -- buys) is bought at the same price paid by every other customer of Iraq.

Quote:

Funny how Israel has threatened to attack Iran by March of 2006, same month as the proposed Bourse, therefore keeping them from trading in Euros instead of the American dollar, keeping the oil dictators in sweet money for awhile...




Funny how the Israelis think it better to destroy Iran's nuke-building program before Iran builds nukes to wipe Israel off the map.

Quote:

Also funny how The Avian flu epidemic has dried up, eh?




Yeah. Real funny how yet another of seemingly endless "the sky is falling" stories promulgated by alarmists in the media to boost their falling circulation turned out to be over-hyped. Like that has never happened before. Ever heard of SARS?

What on earth does Avian Flu have to do with who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks, by the way?

Quote:

I guess Rummy, who stands to make many untold millions off Tammiflu...




Huh? You want to explain that one? Is he a major shareholder of a company which manufactures the vaccine or something?


Phred


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126465 - 12/31/05 03:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I see how it benefits international corporations, but how does it benefit the government? They are not one and the same.




Yes, they are...


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5126468 - 12/31/05 03:28 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Please, explain to me how they are the same.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126476 - 12/31/05 03:30 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Islamic extremists have gained sympathy, membership, and widespread media attention b/c of it. I don't think it is really that clear who gained more from the attacks.




not so much because of the attacks then as the way bush&co spun the attacks into the political capital to wage aggressive warfare abroad..and cut off civil liberties at home..and they knew too ..

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

Quote:

Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event ? like a
new Pearl Harbor.




so much for ZIGs claim that theres "no bushite revolution"...

and BTW..OBL used to work for the CIA...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5126479 - 12/31/05 03:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I suppose you, the statistical genius, would also consider the chance that the sun will implode tomorrow to be a 50-50 proposition. Sure, it's possible. Just not likely, not even close, beyond any value in considering. Probability approaching zero.

Hat, foil, some assembly required.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5126482 - 12/31/05 03:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


not so much because of the attacks then as the way bush&co spun the attacks into the political capital to wage aggressive warfare abroad..and cut off civil liberties at home..and they knew too ..




Yes, but these intrusions on our rights occurred because of the terrorist attacks.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126497 - 12/31/05 03:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

What intrusions on your rights? Did you have the phone numbers of known terrorists on your computer and then call them? Outside of that group I am not aware of any NSA monitoring. The Times didn't report it.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Phred]
    #5126627 - 12/31/05 04:11 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Well let's see, there is the matter of a huge natural gas pipeline in Afghanistan, constructed by haliburton, bought, sold, and built by Bush's oil buddies...




You are of course aware there is no such pipeline. For that matter, there is not even a contract awarded to build such a pipeline, much less one awarded to Halliburton.

Quote:

There's a lot of oil in Iraq too, bought, sold, and built by Bush's oil buddies, and there is also the question of the threatened oil bourse by Iran, which would hurt Bush and his oil buddies...




You are of course aware that the government of Iraq decides who gets the oil they sell, and that the oil the US buys from Iraq (yes, that's right -- buys) is bought at the same price paid by every other customer of Iraq.

Quote:

Funny how Israel has threatened to attack Iran by March of 2006, same month as the proposed Bourse, therefore keeping them from trading in Euros instead of the American dollar, keeping the oil dictators in sweet money for awhile...




Funny how the Israelis think it better to destroy Iran's nuke-building program before Iran builds nukes to wipe Israel off the map.

Quote:

Also funny how The Avian flu epidemic has dried up, eh?




Yeah. Real funny how yet another of seemingly endless "the sky is falling" stories promulgated by alarmists in the media to boost their falling circulation turned out to be over-hyped. Like that has never happened before. Ever heard of SARS?

What on earth does Avian Flu have to do with who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks, by the way?

Quote:

I guess Rummy, who stands to make many untold millions off Tammiflu...




Huh? You want to explain that one? Is he a major shareholder of a company which manufactures the vaccine or something?


Phred




No Pipeline?

A quick time-line

September-October 1995: Unocal Obtains Turkmenistan Pipeline Deal      Complete 911 Timeline
     
Oil company Unocal signs an $8 billion deal with Turkmenistan to construct two pipelines (one for oil, one for gas), as part of a larger plan for two pipelines intended to transport oil and gas from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan and into Pakistan. Before proceeding further, however, Unocal needs to execute agreements with Pakistan and Afghanistan; Pakistan and Ahmed Shah Massoud's government in Afghanistan, however, have already signed a pipeline deal with an Argentinean company. Henry Kissinger, hired as speaker for a special dinner in New York to announce the Turkmenistan pipeline deal, says the Unocal plan represents a ?triumph of hope over experience.? Unocal will later open an office in Kabul, weeks after the Taliban capture of the capital in late 1996 and will interact with the Taliban, seeking support for its pipeline until at least December 1997. [Coll, 2004, pp 301-13, 329, 338, 364-66]
People and organizations involved: Ahmed Shah Massoud, Taliban, Unocal, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Henry A. Kissinger, Pakistan
         


October 27, 1997: Halliburton Announces Turkmenistan Project; Unocal and Delta Oil Form Consortium     

Halliburton, a company headed by future Vice President Dick Cheney, announces a new agreement to provide technical services and drilling for Turkmenistan. The press release mentions, ?Halliburton has been providing a variety of services in Turkmenistan for the past five years.? On the same day, a consortium to build a pipeline through Afghanistan is formed. It is called CentGas, and the two main partners are Unocal and Delta Oil of Saudi Arabia. [CentGas press release, 10/27/97; Halliburton press release, 10/27/97]
People and organizations involved: Halliburton, Inc., Energy Information Agency, Turkmenistan, Richard ("Dick") Cheney
         


January 2002: Central Asian Countries See US Military Bases Expand     

Reportedly, the US is improving bases in ?13 locations in nine countries in the Central Asian region.? [Christian Science Monitor, 1/17/02] US military personnel strength in bases surrounding Afghanistan has increased to 60,000. [Los Angeles Times, 1/6/02] ?Of the five ex-Soviet states of Central Asia, Turkmenistan alone is resisting pressure to allow the deployment of US or other Western forces on its soil...? [Guardian, 1/10/02] On January 9, the speaker of the Russian parliament states, ?Russia would not approve of the appearance of permanent US bases in Central Asia,? but Russia seems helpless to stop what a Russian newspaper calls ?the inexorable growth? of the US military presence in Central Asia. [Guardian, 1/10/02] Commenting on the bases, one columnist writes in the Guardian: ?The task of the encircling US bases now shooting up on Afghanistan's periphery is only partly to contain the threat of political regression or Taliban resurgence in Kabul. Their bigger, longer-term role is to project US power and US interests into countries previously beyond its reach. ... The potential benefits for the US are enormous: growing military hegemony in one of the few parts of the world not already under Washington's sway, expanded strategic influence at Russia and China's expense, pivotal political clout and?grail of holy grails?access to the fabulous, non-OPEC oil and gas wealth of central Asia.? [Guardian, 1/16/02]
People and organizations involved: China, Taliban, Turkmenistan, Russia, United States
         



December 27, 2002: Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Turkmenistan Agree on Building Pipeline

     
Leaders sign the pipeline agreement.
Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Turkmenistan reach an agreement in principle to build the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline, a $3.2 billion project that has been delayed for many years. Skeptics say the project would require an indefinite foreign military presence in Afghanistan. [Associated Press, 12/26/02; BBC, 12/27/02; BBC, 5/30/02] As of mid-2004, construction has yet to begin.
People and organizations involved: Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkmenistan
         


January 18, 2005: Plans for a Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline Continue     


The US ambassador to Turkmenistan states that US companies might join a long-delayed trans-Afghan natural gas pipeline project. The Turkmenistan government says a feasibility study for the $3.5 billion pipeline is complete and construction will begin in 2006. The project's main sponsor is the Asian Development Bank. The pipeline is to run from Turkmenistan through Herat and Kandahar in Afghanistan, through the Pakistani cities of Quetta and Multan, and on to India. [Associated Press, 1/18/05]
People and organizations involved: Asian Development Bank, Turkmenistan

If you don't believe me check out any of these links phred...


http://www.kiddmillennium.com/Trans-Afghanpipeline.htm
http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD201A.html
http://www.eppc.org/publications/pubID.2192/pub_detail.asp
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI203A.html
http://members.localnet.com/~jeflan/jfafghanpipe.htm
http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/03/29_Homeland_Security_Pipeline.html
http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/armitagecheneyasia.htm
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/oilwar1.html


As far as Bush and friends gaining from Iraq's oil, I will not bore everyone with the details other then to say that Saddam was also threatening a Bourse before he fell. 

I have no space here to go into details, but these links below should provide at least enough information to question Bush and friends motives for invading to line their own pockets.

I have my doubts that you will keep an open enough mind to read them though...

Here's a quote from one of the links:

PLATFORM's "Crude Designs: The Rip-off of Iraq's Oil Wealth"  points out that the proposed agreements (with US State Department origins) will prove a bonanza for oil companies but a disaster for the Iraqi people:

    "At an oil price of $40 per barrel, Iraq stands to lose between $74 billion and $194 billion over the lifetime of the proposed contracts, from only the first 12 oilfields to be developed. These estimates, based on conservative assumptions, represent between two and seven times the current Iraqi government budget."

    "Under the likely terms of the contracts, oil company rates of return from investing in Iraq would range from 42% to 162%, far in excess of usual industry minimum target of around 12% return on investment."

Of course, given the current political chaos, Iraqi citizens have little power over whether their politicians sign the proposed PSA agreements. That critical decision could be left to con-men like the former Interim Oil Minister Ahmad Chalabi, who recently met with no less than Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice during his red-carpet visit to the White House. One can assume the topic of Iraq's proposed PSAs came up more than once.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1203-23.htm

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/17450
http://www.energybulletin.net/7707.html
http://www.heatherwokusch.com/columns/column70.html



You said:

"Funny how the Israelis think it better to destroy Iran's nuke-building program before Iran builds nukes to wipe Israel off the map."

Oh...The WMD thing again?

Isn't that getting a little tiresome... :rolleyes:



As far as the Avian flu LIE is concerned, no it doesn't really factor into my point except to point out that the dick heads in charge of you're country are so bold as to make money wherever there speedy little hands can grab it...


Yes Rummy once sat on the board of Gilead, which owns the rights to Tamiflu, and he owns major stock, and is making major money from Bush's stockpiling of the drug to fight this "false pandemic" that has killed less people in the last year then lightning...

Here's a quote from one of the links to follow:

"Roche will now pay Gilead 14-22% of Tamiflu revenue, up from last year's 10%. The drug was a "lackluster" seller before pandemic fears, which reached new heights earlier this month when President Bush outlined a $7.1 billion pandemic response plan.

American mainstream media continue to ignore the White House connection (some call it crony capitalism) to its flu plan ($1 billion is specifically earmarked for Tamiflu). Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld owns Gilead stock valued at $5-25 million. US Liberals Deborah White reported this connection on 1 November. And yet. A Google news search of "Rumsfeld and Tamiflu" yields only 84 stories; a large percentage of these are foreign press. Not surprisingly, Google's BlogSearch has 627 hits; Technorati, 507 in the last five days.

When Rumsfeld left the board of Gilead, shares were trading at about $7. Since last year, the stock has increased more than 57% (the Pentagon bought $58 million worth for soldiers this summer). In November, the share price has jumped about 20%. Last year, sales of Tamiflu were about $258 million, according to Roche, which manufactures the drug under a royalty agreement with Gilead. Roche estimates 2005 sales at $1 billion.

Here again are some links:

http://uspolitics.about.com/b/a/207474.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news/newsmakers/fortune_rumsfeld/
http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=1443
http://keerblog.blogspot.com/2005/11/rumsfelds-got-tamiflu.html
http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/rumsfeld_to_profit_from_avian_flu_hoax.htm


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrajna
ReliablyUnreliable
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5126664 - 12/31/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I suppose you, the statistical genius, would also consider the chance that the sun will implode tomorrow to be a 50-50 proposition. Sure, it's possible. Just not likely, not even close, beyond any value in considering. Probability approaching zero.

Hat, foil, some assembly required.





Figures a right winger would resort to this type of stupid argument.

When faced with the facts, just turn around and call me a loony, or talk about holograms and tinfoil hats...

Why don't you read what I have written and come back at me with facts instead of twisting what I have said!!!

I never said a fucking thing about holograms!!!
I never said that the sun wasn't going to come up tomorrow!!!

What does anything that I said have anything to do with whether or not I think the sun is going to come up tomorrow?

Nice smokescreen buddy...

Can't beat me, then discredit me by implying that I am crazy...

Must be a tactic you learned from Rush or Hannity...

And to think that you guys call us "moonbats"...

Got any REAL "quid-pro-quo"?...

Or you just going to twist my words all night?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5126780 - 12/31/05 04:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:


not so much because of the attacks then as the way bush&co spun the attacks into the political capital to wage aggressive warfare abroad..and cut off civil liberties at home..and they knew too ..




Yes, but these intrusions on our rights occurred because of the terrorist attacks.




the whole point is that the "terrorist attacks" prolly occurred in order to make it possible for bush&co to revoke our rights..and whatever else he wants to...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5127199 - 12/31/05 06:46 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

January 18, 2005: Plans for a Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline Continue


The US ambassador to Turkmenistan states that US companies might join a long-delayed trans-Afghan natural gas pipeline project. The Turkmenistan government says a feasibility study for the $3.5 billion pipeline is complete and construction will begin in 2006. The project's main sponsor is the Asian Development Bank. The pipeline is to run from Turkmenistan through Herat and Kandahar in Afghanistan, through the Pakistani cities of Quetta and Multan, and on to India. [Associated Press, 1/18/05]
People and organizations involved: Asian Development Bank, Turkmenistan




So here we are a year later. Would you care to provide us a link showing the contract has been awarded to a US company? For that matter, would you care to provide us a link showing which companies (from ANY country) have been awarded the contract?

So far all we have seen is an article claiming the US ambassador to Turkmenistan says that unspecified US companies might join (join who?) others involved in the project. Which still hasn't been started. People and organizations involved -- Asian Development Bank, Turkmenistan. Conspicuously absent from the list of people and organizations involved are Halliburton or any other US companies. Or any companies at all, come to think of it.

In other words, more than four years after the UN coalition invaded Afghanistan, the pipeline contract still hasn't even been awarded, much less started. As I said.

Quote:

Oh...The WMD thing again?

Isn't that getting a little tiresome...




If you think Iran is pursuing the enrichment of uranium for the purpose of building nuclear generating plants rather than for atomic weapons you are of course free to continue to believe such nonsense.

So Rumsfeld owns stock in a pharma company. Big whoop. I ask again, what does the existence of Avian Flu have to do with who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks?



Phred


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Phred]
    #5127253 - 12/31/05 07:07 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If you think Iran is pursuing the enrichment of uranium for the purpose of building nuclear generating plants rather than for atomic weapons you are of course free to continue to believe such nonsense.




This is not meant as a flame, but anybody that thinks Iran wants enriched uranium for any purpose other than building a bomb is out of their mind...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Phred]
    #5128027 - 01/01/06 01:41 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Would you care to provide us a link showing the contract has been awarded to a US company?

No, the article states perfectly clearly that according to the US ambassador US companies MIGHT join the project. The sensible thing to do is wait and see when, or if, the Afghani people stop fighting back against the occupation.

For that matter, would you care to provide us a link showing which companies (from ANY country) have been awarded the contract?


See above.

Which still hasn't been started

Yes those pesky Afghani's fighting back against the occupation eh? Can you believe the nerve of these people?  :rolleyes:

People and organizations involved -- Asian Development Bank, Turkmenistan. Conspicuously absent from the list of people and organizations involved are Halliburton or any other US companies. Or any companies at all, come to think of it.


Read the statement by the US ambassador again. Is he just saying this for fun?

In other words, more than four years after the UN coalition invaded Afghanistan, the pipeline contract still hasn't even been awarded, much less started.

But remember that's because the Afghanis are still fighting the occupation.

If you think Iran is pursuing the enrichment of uranium for the purpose of building nuclear generating plants rather than for atomic weapons you are of course free to continue to believe such nonsense.



Do you have any evidence to back this up? Or is this just a feeling you had in your water this morning?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Alex213]
    #5128344 - 01/01/06 10:01 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Do you have any evidence to back this up? Or is this just a feeling you had in your water this morning?




It's the same "feeling" you'll get from any person who feels an absurd pre-emptive attack on Iran would be a good idea.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5128463 - 01/01/06 11:32 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I suppose you, the statistical genius, would also consider the chance that the sun will implode tomorrow to be a 50-50 proposition. Sure, it's possible. Just not likely, not even close, beyond any value in considering. Probability approaching zero.

Hat, foil, some assembly required.





Figures a right winger would resort to this type of stupid argument.

When faced with the facts, just turn around and call me a loony, or talk about holograms and tinfoil hats...




Facts, what facts? I merely responded to your utterly unsubstantiated assertion that "I won't say that the people behind PNAC did or did not stage 9/11, in my mind the chances are about 50/50". You have also stated in this thread "In fact I myself am the king of stupid statements(this being one), and am willing to admit freely that I know nothing about anything(clearly), and therefore try not to discredit others with my own stupidity," a fun but essentially nonsensical statement. I particularly like the part "therefore try not to discredit others with my own stupidity." Are you a native English speaker?
The hologram quote was not from me but I think the point being made is valid. You have ascribed equal likelihood to the possibility that the US government deliberately brought about the attacks to the possibility that sworn US enemies, who made a previous attempt to do the same thing, did it. Absurd. The monumental nature of this conspiracy foolishness makes it so impossible to pull off as to earn it's adherents the title "moonbat" as well as "loon", "lunatic fringe" and "tinfoil hat wearer".


Quote:


Why don't you read what I have written and come back at me with facts instead of twisting what I have said!!!




Obviously I have. As near as I can tell the sole "evidence" you have offered is that there was a document prepared during the Cuban crisis in the early sixties that elucidated a possible series of actions which could garner support for a Cuban invasion. No evidence that this was carried out or even seriously contemplated for execution was offered. Further, this document was prepared in a far earlier time of much less government scrutiny than currently exists. And from this, you conclude that it was equally likely self-inflicted as not. Hat. Foil. Assemble.

Quote:


I never said a fucking thing about holograms!!!
I never said that the sun wasn't going to come up tomorrow!!!
What does anything that I said have anything to do with whether or not I think the sun is going to come up tomorrow?





Ah yes, the sun remark was mine. In case you are unaware, there actually is a possibility that the sun will spontaneously implode tomorrow. However, the probability of that event approaches zero so closely as to be essentially impossible for all practical purposes except for mathematical modeling. Although there is a greater chance than this that the US government somehow perpetrated the attacks than this, it is nonetheless so fucking low as to be of no consequence to any rational being seriously interested in anything other than BushAmerica bashing.

Quote:


Nice smokescreen buddy...




I hope I have cleared up the purpose of those examples. It relates directly to probability. You seem to have no understanding of the concept. This should help.

Quote:


Can't beat me, then discredit me by implying that I am crazy...




I implied nothing. I flat out stated that anybody who chooses to believe that there is a high probablity that US government brought down the Towers should be equally concerned about mind control beams from Rove (see my previous post elsewhere about RIMJOB). The hat is your only hope
Quote:


Must be a tactic you learned from Rush or Hannity...

And to think that you guys call us "moonbats"...

Got any REAL "quid-pro-quo"?...




Do you have any idea what the phrase "quid-pro-quo" means and what it is applicable to? It has no relevance here. I have no intention of giving you anything, nor do I expect to get anything from you.

Quote:



Or you just going to twist my words all night?




I have done no such twisting. Your arguments lack intellectual rigor. You have no understanding of probability and you have a foolish and naive notion of acceptable forms of proof. There is no absolute proof ever, of anything. The only way to "prove" the US government did not deliberately perpetrate the 9/11 attacks is to "prove" that someone else did it beyond a reasonable doubt. I and almost everybody else on the planet with a shred of intelligence have found the argument that OBL and his henchmen did this to be so shown. The evidence is quite strong.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5128497 - 01/01/06 11:59 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

That was my "hologram" comment. I love how I have become, without my consent or knowledge, a Neocon for not agreeing with some crazy conspiracy theory. I certainly am not a Republican or a conservative.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5128522 - 01/01/06 12:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
That was my "hologram" comment. I love how I have become, without my consent or knowledge, a Neocon for not agreeing with some crazy conspiracy theory. I certainly am not a Republican or a conservative.




Not yet, my friend, but soon, soon. Bwahahahahaha. As the beams take their cumulative effect the time will come when the Rovian mind control device takes over. You have, after all, shed the Hat of Protection.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5128577 - 01/01/06 12:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

Didn't take you long, did it?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5128593 - 01/01/06 12:59 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

What will the humanazi's say once we really start tearing apart our enemies without regard to world opinion?

They already wasted the hitler thing... what will they come up with next? Silly moonbats shoulda thought about that.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJ4S0N
human
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 284
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Prajna]
    #5128620 - 01/01/06 01:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You are wasting your time talking about 9/11 on this forum Prajna. Every discussion ends up with the same group of people attacking others with talk of tin foil hats. Its very strange, and kind of funny.

But the self proclaimed experts are correct. Just ask them and they will tell you. The Islamofacist cavemen did it.


--------------------
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: J4S0N]
    #5128631 - 01/01/06 01:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

If you, or anyone else for that matter, had even half-assed evidence that attempted to prove that is was a vast government conspiracy, that would do a lot of good towards cpnvincing people. I'm a liberal Libertarian who is very, very skeptical about our government, and I have not seen anything in this forum that budged me towards believing in the 9/11 conspiracy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5128694 - 01/01/06 01:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If you, or anyone else for that matter, had even half-assed evidence that attempted to prove that is was a vast government conspiracy, that would do a lot of good towards cpnvincing people. I'm a liberal Libertarian who is very, very skeptical about our government, and I have not seen anything in this forum that budged me towards believing in the 9/11 conspiracy.




Rovian Mind Beams at work.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04 Happy 20th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5128809 - 01/01/06 03:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

It only takes a little eye-opening effort to realize that there are many many discrepancies, divergences, contradictions, deceptions, evasions and plain impossibilites in the official version of the story that we've been getting from the media and the government's 911 commision.

There remains hundreds of unanswered questions, like the surviving "hijackers", the "hijacker's" passport found in the WTC rubbles, the bizarre WTC 7 collapse, the bin Laden/CIA relationship, known Bush/Cheney/Rice lies, which US parties, corporations and agencies profited most from 9/11, and countless more...

Please, I ask you this sincerely, take an objective look at what you can find on the internet concerning 911, there are lots of web sites that aim towards revealing the truth.

Paradoxically, the most obvious proofs that show that 911 was an inside job have been seen by everyone, without anyone really noticing: the only video of the first plane going in the tower shows a big flash just before the plane hits the tower, same thing for the second plane, which also had something attached to it which strangely ressembles a missile. As the towers fell to the ground, you could see a progression of "explosions" which preceded its fall from the top to the bottom at every 20 floors or so. Not to mention, the fall of WTC7. And the list goes on.

All of this is so overwhelming to someone who only knows and has accepted the official version to the point that i understand how some can refuse to read any further and dismiss the whole thing as another looney conspiracy theory. I understand how some people can experience a psychological barrier making it impossible for them to even come close to thinking that their own government is capable of such a thing. But I know you can easily overcome these difficulties, I know you're a smart guy, and I know that if you look a bit deeper into all of this you'll be able to understand me.

Seeing is believing, right? In case you weren't able to see the bitTorrent version of "Loose Change", I found a media player version of it on this website: http://novakeo.com/?p=262

Check. It. Out.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: exclusive58]
    #5128845 - 01/01/06 03:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I can't watch it right now, since I'm on dial-up (yuck), but I will watch it once I'm back to school from X-mas break.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: exclusive58]
    #5128872 - 01/01/06 03:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
the second plane, which also had something attached to it which strangely ressembles a missile.




That is the dumbest 9/11 conspiracy theory I've seen. I've seen the web site that had the pictures up and that had an examination from a "respected authority". The web site was horrendously biased towards the "anti-war" crowd.

The photos are blurry as hell. Considering there are probably at least 10 different close-up videos of the second plane hitting the tower, why did they pick the blurriest and shittiest pictures to do their analysis? Why has no other respected authority corroborated their analysis?

If some nefarious government organization was going to execute 9/11, why in the hell would they put some big, obtrusive, and easily spotted object on the plane? There would be hundreds of video cameras trained on the towers, hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers watching very closely, and possibly millions watching on TV. It would make no sense to put something that would be so easily spotted. Why attach something onto it when a plane hitting a tower would be pretty spectacular in and of itself? When was this massive tank or missile attached to the plane? Why did none of the ground crew at the departing airport notice a big thing attached to the plane? I've seen a bunch of videos of the second plane hitting the tower. Some of them were very up close. I noticed no big missile or tank on the plane.

The only conspiracy theory stuff that has passed any muster was how did WTC 7 collapse and how did people call on their cell phones when cell phones aren't supposed to work above a certain altitude. The rest is easily debunkable conspiracy theory garbage put forth by America hating Leftists.

Show me proof! Not "well...this is kind of weird...and that is kind of weird....and I don't really have any proof.....so....the U.S. government must have done it!" crap.

Edited by RandalFlagg (01/01/06 04:28 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5128886 - 01/01/06 03:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Occam's Razor, baby.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5128980 - 01/01/06 04:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Occam's Razor, baby.




Numquam ponendo est pluritas sine necessitate.

I copied that out of Wikipedia and pasted it here to look smart.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5128982 - 01/01/06 04:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04 Happy 20th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5129045 - 01/01/06 05:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
That is the dumbest 9/11 conspiracy theory I've seen.




I assume that you haven't heard of the "loch ness monster" theory :lol:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/npp-rgarb.html

Quote:

I've seen a bunch of videos of the second plane hitting the tower. Some of them were very up close. I noticed no big missile or tank on the plane.




Planes travel at a very fast speed, making it hard for the eyes to notice fine details. Did you see the videos in slow motion? If you did, you should have noticed something that ressembles a pod. But some people say it is only a reflection of light, and others say its just shadows. How can it be a reflection and a shadow at the same time...?

However, the missile is of secondary importance to the flash issue, which you have completely ignored.

Quote:

The rest is easily debunkable conspiracy theory garbage put forth by America hating Leftists.




Please don't start the right vs. left bullshit. I hate that stuff, you can't have a debate w/o being called a stupid lefty or an ignorant righty.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: exclusive58]
    #5129124 - 01/01/06 05:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

But some people say it is only a reflection of light, and others say its just shadows. How can it be a reflection and a shadow at the same time...?




I'm not going to comment on the missile theory, since I have no seen the footage. On the other hand, what you said doesn't make any logical sense. It doesn't have to be a reflection and a shadow at the same time. Some people say it is a shadow and some people say it is a reflection, and I'm sure no people say it is both. Therefore, they believe it is a reflection OR (not and) a shadow.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04 Happy 20th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: Redstorm]
    #5129199 - 01/01/06 06:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

true. what i was trying to say is that some explanations for what seems to be a missile on the plane are contradictary. and i'm not stating as a fact that there was a missile on it, i'm just saying that it does kinda look like one.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: exclusive58]
    #5129222 - 01/01/06 06:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Fair enough.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Bush and Hitler - Parallel Lives [Re: exclusive58]
    #5129257 - 01/01/06 06:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
However, the missile is of secondary importance to the flash issue, which you have completely ignored.





Link me several videos that show the flash from different viewpoints.

Also, check this site out: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Bush=Hitler
( 1 2 all )
FeliusAndromeda 2,814 32 10/06/02 01:00 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* Bush and Hitler's, " New World Ordr." mjshroomer 1,091 6 11/04/02 11:29 PM
by BuzzDoctor
* Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11
( 1 2 all )
Eightball 2,323 24 10/29/02 09:54 AM
by Xlea321
* CBS: Saddam challenges Bush to debate
( 1 2 all )
Angry Mycologist 3,007 38 02/25/03 12:45 PM
by MushyMay
* Bush asks - "What protests?"
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Angry Mycologist 4,976 64 02/20/03 05:32 PM
by Phred
* Bush sweating in his shoes
( 1 2 3 all )
Xlea321 1,550 42 08/29/03 10:53 AM
by shakta
* Bush Wants Marijuana Ruling Struck Down
( 1 2 all )
Edame 2,335 30 07/13/03 07:59 PM
by Psilocybeingzz
* 5-Minute Video of George W. Bush on the Morning of 9-11
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
LearyfanS 10,043 125 07/15/03 08:43 PM
by Learyfan

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
3,234 topic views. 0 members, 6 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.045 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.