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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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My theory on the 12th planet (planet X)
    #512325 - 01/06/02 05:36 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

After reading this site: http://xfacts.com/x5.html (I started from the first page) I have decided to pose a theory on why there could be an orbit as such on http://xfacts.com/x5.html of Planet X.

If the core of all the planets are made of the same elements (ex: carbon) then maybe the Sun keeps carbon based objects in its orbit. Planet X might not be carbon based, and there could be a unknown object (black hole maybe) far outside the reaches of Pluto and in the center of Planet X's orbit. The black hole might keep objects of the same base as Planet X in it's orbit, explaining why it might have such a fucked up orbit that crosses so far into our system.

Thats my belief, and it makes sense to me:-)

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #512329 - 01/06/02 05:41 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

hmmm, my thoughts are swirling over this....


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #512369 - 01/06/02 06:14 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Plenty of objects orbit the sun in fucked up (highly eccentric) orbits. Comets have virtually the same pattern: they spend most of their time well outside the solar system and wander in toward the sun every few thousand years. It has to do with how the sun captured the bodies in its gravitational pull, not black holes. If there was a black hole in our solar neighborhood, we'd have been swallowed up billions of years ago.

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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #512382 - 01/06/02 06:22 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I don't mean it is a black hole, it was an example of an object like our sun... one that attracts bodies of certain chemical bases. If you go to the site http://xfacts.com/x5.html and look at the picture, it has a HUGELY fucked up orbit, as if it revolves around something totally different than the sun. This helps my theory about it as the sun doesn't seem to affect it's orbit (the orbit of the object would be near the center, and in the pic, the sun is on the edge) Why would the orbit of this planet stretch so far towards the sun and away from it if it was in our solar system. I think it would be part of a different solar system, involving a star or some object outside of our pulling on Planet X, but not on Pluto or Uranus or Neptune because they have different base elements. Understand what I'm trying to say?

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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #512402 - 01/06/02 06:38 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I understand what you mean about it looking like its orbiting another body, but that orbit can come about because when Nibiru was gravitationally captured by our sun, it was travelling at a high velocity. This high velocity (and kinetic energy) enables it to travel very far away from the sun in its orbit before finally being dragged back. I'm not sure how to explain it better, but a highly eccentric orbit simply implies a high velocity of travel, not necessarily a second foci of the orbit. A slower traveling body (like a planet) would result in a more circular orbit. Again, the picture on that site could just as well be describing the orbit of a comet around our sun.

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InvisibleNGC4414
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #512405 - 01/06/02 06:40 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I don't really see what it is you are trying to say. Planets orbit a star because of gravity, not because of their chemical makeup.

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Offlinefeign
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #512426 - 01/06/02 07:01 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I think it's great that you have taken the time and interest to come up with your own ideas on things, but unfortunately orbits have nothing to do with "base elements" and everything to do with gravity.

First of all, I'd be a little skeptical of all the information on that site, based on the fact that their depictions of planetary orbits are completely wrong. Planets don't orbit in circles, they orbit in ellipses. Because they are ellipses, there are two focal points, however, the second one is just a point in space. The reason they are ellipses is because of their velocities when approaching the sun, not because of a second massive object affecting their orbits.

So it's really not too surprising that this "planet X" could be at such an eccentric orbit, since almost all comets follow such an path (again, this has been said)

So, sorry to shoot down your theory and all, it's great that you even took the interest to come up with one...it's just not exactly correct, hehe.


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Remember I'll always love you as I claw your fucking throat away. It will end no other way.
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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: feign]
    #512534 - 01/06/02 08:14 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

It's always cool to think different...

Maybe gravity is specific in what it chooses to pull, which could explain some parts of my theory. We cannot determine that gravity chooses what it chooses to pull outside of Earth... everything we know is based on what happens when on Earth... The gravity of the sun might be a different type of gravity than the Earth has, but this is unlikely with satellites and all... there are infinate possibilities of what might be when it comes to deep space

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Offlinefeign
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #512696 - 01/06/02 10:52 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Well, that is certainly an interesting thought, and honestly, no one can really prove you wrong right now, as we don't really know what gravity is anyway. Hehe


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Remember I'll always love you as I claw your fucking throat away. It will end no other way.
-Tool

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #513014 - 01/07/02 08:41 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

If we did not have basic understanding of gravity and if it were not consistent throughout the solar system, it would be impossible to land a spacecraft on Mars some 30 million miles away.

Try reading physics and astronomy books instead of dribble.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Swami]
    #513642 - 01/07/02 08:05 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

True, but it might not be the same throughout the UNIVERSE.

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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #513960 - 01/08/02 12:53 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

If gravity worked differently anywhere in the universe -- to the extent that you're suggesting -- it would be fucking obvious. Galaxies with more carbon in them, to use your example, would spin faster than a galaxy of similar mass with less carbon. We would notice. Also, carbon is a comparetively late arrival in the universe, whereas gravity has been around since the very begininning -- or, atleast, a few billionths of a second after it.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Pynchon]
    #514094 - 01/08/02 05:10 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

hey that's science talk! strictly forbidden. keep quiet science boy we don't need your phoney science babble here, go on and eat some macdonalds you and all the rest of yer science-lovin friends. you make me sick.

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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Traveller]
    #514096 - 01/08/02 05:14 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I hate MacDonalds.

Put down the cough syrup. Everything will be OK.

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Offlinefeign
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Pynchon]
    #518758 - 01/12/02 07:06 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I would say that while it's HIGHLY unlikely that gravity has *anything* at all to do with chemical composition, we certainly have no idea what it really has to do with.

Sure, we know that gravity is pretty uniform (that right there rules out anything related to chemical composition), but we definitely have no idea why it's like it is. The details of gravity is one of the great unanswered questions of physics.


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Remember I'll always love you as I claw your fucking throat away. It will end no other way.
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InvisibleSwami
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #519100 - 01/13/02 03:27 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

A theory on a fantasy makes no sense whatsoever.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #519106 - 01/13/02 03:40 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

There is not one piece of evidence to show anything different, no matter how"cool" it is is to make these outrageous statements.

Get a degree and get published. But no, That would take effort and disicpline. Much easier to just spout tripe with no back-up than to do any real research.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (02/07/02 04:33 AM)

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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Swami]
    #540799 - 02/04/02 11:24 PM (22 years, 26 days ago)

>>There is not one piece of evidence to show anything different, no matter >>how"cool" it is is to make these outrageous statements.

>>Get a dgreee and get published. But no, That would take effort and disicpline. >>Much easier to just spout tripe with no back-up than to do any real research.

A degree is only a piece of paper saying you have officially studied something. I do not need a degree to havean imagination. If you feel the need for someone to say "Well, you've got a degree, so we are gonna give you the benefit of the doubt on your thoughts." then so be it.

Lack of evidence doesn't mean lack of proof, it just means lack of discovery. How can one judge what the universe is like 40 million light years away when one has not traveled that far? All of the laws of physics are Earth-based, and no doubt would be different under different conditions (place in solar system, galaxy, universe)

So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit. Without imaginaton, we wouldn't have shit for technological advances. Which means no internet, which means no flaming for Swami to do to raise his self-confidense due to lack of imagination.

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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #540873 - 02/05/02 12:57 AM (22 years, 26 days ago)

None of my business, but I'm interested in why you think the laws of physics would "no doubt be different under different conditions"? Why would the universe have one set of laws for us and another for who/whatever else might be out there? What makes us so special?

Surely if we can see something forty million light years away, we atleast know that light (and presumably other forms of radiation, ie gravity) behave in the same way as they do here...

Imagination is a fine thing, but knowledge should form the foundation for any castle in the sky...

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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Pynchon]
    #540938 - 02/05/02 02:30 AM (22 years, 26 days ago)

There are thoughts going around in the scientific community now that the physical laws we experience are local. This has nothing to do with us, or how special we are. There might simply be local variations in the laws around in the universe. Look up New Scientist no 2326 (damn, 23 again..., sorry, other topic...)
Read the article about "gravastars". I think that's where I read it. Might have been NS 2325 though, in the article about anti-gravity.


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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Timeleech]
    #540990 - 02/05/02 04:33 AM (22 years, 26 days ago)

Could you give some details about this? Like what you mean by "variations"? I had a quick poke around at their website but couldn't find anything.

I honestly fail to see how other galaxies etc could even form if they were subject to different laws. Not to say there aren't perhaps additional laws that we haven't yet discovered, but different ones?

It would also be difficult to explain the large-scale uniformity of the universe if there were "local" laws...I dunno, sounds screwy to me...but I bet it hasn't hurt their sales any, natch...

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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Pynchon]
    #541003 - 02/05/02 05:04 AM (22 years, 26 days ago)

I'm not going to sift through the three possible issues right now, but wer'e talking about *variations* here. Not entirely different laws. Minute variations probably, I don't remember.

Galaxies arent' subject to different laws. I would imagine this is on a greater scale, and that the laws change gradually over distance. Much like an electromagnetic field. But that's just my take on it. It seems logical, most other thigs change gradually.
And it was just a little paragraph in a larger article, so I doubt their sales increased very much :smile:


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InvisibleUlysees
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Timeleech]
    #541424 - 02/05/02 02:02 PM (22 years, 26 days ago)

I was reading something about this the other day too, I think I mentioned it in another thread. Our physics laws work in our galaxy, but a galaxy in a different stage is under a totally different set of pressures, conditions, variables... Things are just way too different for scientists to be sure that they're the same. :wink:
Of course, if you put our physics system into action from within that galaxy, the physics system would also be under the same pressures and conditions and whatnot and might work just the same, although it would be working an a very different way...

Don't take my word for it though, I'm just making conversation. :wink: 


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Anonymous

Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Ulysees]
    #541832 - 02/05/02 10:27 PM (22 years, 25 days ago)

if i get this wrong forgive me, but i understand things better when they are broken down into simple terms...

so, they would have the same effect, but for different reasons? something like that? or they would have the same effect, but go about it in a different manner... or did i just say the same thing twice?

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InvisibleUlysees
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Anonymous]
    #542065 - 02/06/02 02:00 AM (22 years, 25 days ago)

Well, I'm no expert on this, but I think both of the thoughts you presented could have been right.
I really can't convey my understanding of it here... I'm sure you'd do much better to form your own opinions...

I'll take a stab at it, but this is going to be a rather crappy stab:

Let's say you're measuring a random object, and that measurement comes to some random (but applicable) number. This object would be in this galaxy, and subjected to the basic laws of physics we have deciphered.

Now, if you found the same object in a different galaxy, a galaxy at a totally different "stage of life", and under totally different circumstances, your tape measure would be under the exact same circumstances. If you measured that object, the measurement might read the same, even though that object looked drastically different from outside that foreign galaxy. (Like you're looking at it from a telescope from here...)

That was probably very crappy... Like I said, it's hard for me to convey this over a message board. (Hell, I probably have no "right" to try and convey this at all.)

I think you're definately on the right track though... What track that is, I have no idea. :wink:

Another thought: If things are so drastically different, then it's possible that they're too different for the mind to comprehend as being the same (perhaps as in intelligent life), or to comprehend at all (other than perceiving them as "cool", or "phenomenon", or "space stuff", thought I'm sure that stuff exists as well).

Ok, I'm done now. :laugh:   


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Anonymous

Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Ulysees]
    #542415 - 02/06/02 11:29 AM (22 years, 25 days ago)


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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: ]
    #542484 - 02/06/02 12:30 PM (22 years, 25 days ago)

On Earth, an object in free fall accelerates at -9.81 m/s/s.... This is Acceleration due to gravity... now, on another planet, the acceleration would be different due to different strengths of gravity. In another galaxy, a planet orbiting a star could have intelligent life on it and look similar to Earth and have the same gravity field as Earth, but its accelerations would vary because of outside forces (their sun, neighboring planets)

Does this help in understanding how our laws of physics cannot be a constant throughout the universe? We can only measure based on our position in the universe... we cannot travel far enough away to test our laws beyond our galactic neighborhood, meaning NO ONE KNOWS that our laws apply constant throughout eternity.

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Anonymous

Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #543237 - 02/07/02 01:23 AM (22 years, 24 days ago)

We can only measure based on our position in the universe

And then rely on our space brothers and sisters for accurate measures based on their perspective

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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Timeleech]
    #543334 - 02/07/02 04:44 AM (22 years, 24 days ago)

Timeleech --

This isn't the bit you were talking about is it?

New Scientist 2327:

"...the book looks at how the familiar laws of physics may just be local by-laws in our branch of a vast multiverse."

It's in the "who's reading what" section, refering to _Our Cosmic Habitat_ by Martin Rees. So it sounds as if he's speculating on laws outside our universe...

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #543335 - 02/07/02 04:44 AM (22 years, 24 days ago)

So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit. Without imaginaton, we wouldn't have shit for technological advances.
Imagination + understanding + discipline + research + persistence = technology. Without all of the elements, all you have is a daydream.

So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit.
No one attacked your imagination, but on your building a theory about a non-existent object. Try to understand the difference.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #543340 - 02/07/02 04:56 AM (22 years, 24 days ago)

>...the acceleration would be different due to different strengths of gravity.

What does that have to do with different physical laws? Are you saying that the moon operates under a different set of laws because it's gravity is 1/6 that of Earth's?

>In another galaxy, a planet orbiting a star could have intelligent life on it and look similar to Earth and have the same gravity field as Earth...

Then it's a reasonable assumption that it obeys the same laws as we do. Physical laws are mathematical laws. If physics behave differently elsewhere in the universe, are there aliens there adding two and two and getting three and a half?

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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Pynchon]
    #543674 - 02/07/02 12:14 PM (22 years, 24 days ago)

***>...the acceleration would be different due to different strengths of gravity.

What does that have to do with different physical laws? Are you saying that the moon operates under a different set of laws because it's gravity is 1/6 that of Earth's? ***

Yes... the moon would have a different acceleration due to gravity then Earth.

***>In another galaxy, a planet orbiting a star could have intelligent life on it and look similar to Earth and have the same gravity field as Earth...

Then it's a reasonable assumption that it obeys the same laws as we do. Physical laws are mathematical laws. If physics behave differently elsewhere in the universe, are there aliens there adding two and two and getting three and a half? ***

It is only a reasonable assumption that it would obey the same laws if the solar system was the same, the size and force of its star was the same, and all neighboring objects were the same

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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Swami]
    #543677 - 02/07/02 12:20 PM (22 years, 24 days ago)

So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit. Without imaginaton, we wouldn't have shit for technological advances.
Imagination + understanding + discipline + research + persistence = technology. Without all of the elements, all you have is a daydream.


Exactly.... I never said it was a law, simply as theory. You completaly discredited any thoughts that I expressed, and if people always did that, then the first element of your model would be lacking, making no technology.

So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit.
No one attacked your imagination, but on your building a theory about a non-existent object. Try to understand the difference.


that is why it is imagination, I never claimed that was how things were. I also never meant "theory" in a scientific sense, I meant it as a thought about what could be. I do not believe there is a 12th planet that is going to come near us, as there is no sign of it in the sky. If we can see stars and other planets and even galaxies, then we should be able to see the reflectedlight of this planet. I know it is a non-existant object, but if it were to exist, there are infinite possibilities of why it would act in the way it does.

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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #543738 - 02/07/02 01:15 PM (22 years, 24 days ago)

just because you can't see it with your naked eye does not mean it isn't there. can you see pluto? no, cuz it's too far. but with the aid of a telescope you can. until it's close enough (if it exists) to see the glowing red with the naked eye clearly, this debate will go on unanswered. yeah yeah mind you both sides can be convinced, but still. unsettled debate.
_ry_


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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
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    ex.  Blastrid!

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Offlinemm.
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #543799 - 02/07/02 02:18 PM (22 years, 24 days ago)

SherlockDrubu -you are getting mixed up. The moon does not have different physical laws because it has 1/6th gravity. It is the physical laws which tell us that it has 1/6th gravity. The laws state how much gravity there is going to be depending on the circumstances. If you can lift up 40 kilos and your friend can only lift 20 kilos, you are not operating under different physical laws, he just has weaker muscles than you.


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Offlinespreadhead
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #543813 - 02/07/02 02:25 PM (22 years, 24 days ago)

The moon operates under the exact same physical laws as the Earth. The reason the accelerations due to gravity are different is simply because the Earth is much more massive than the moon, not because gravity acts any differently there.

F = Gmm/r^2

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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: spreadhead]
    #544265 - 02/07/02 09:51 PM (22 years, 23 days ago)

I'm aware of why it is different, but I'm simply stating that the numbers are different because of different amounts of gravity contained. I applied this to my earlier post about a planet similar to Earth with similar neighboring planets. The laws wouldn't apply because of outside factors, such as the sun affects us, their star would affect their planet. I guess it all relates to what everything is orbiting around. The sun affects the Earth and its laws, because it exerts a pressure on Earth. I don't doubt that if the sun didn't exert any force on the Earth that the laws would be different. We haven't sent anything close to another star, so there is no proof to discredit my opinions.

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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Blastrid]
    #544267 - 02/07/02 09:54 PM (22 years, 23 days ago)

No, Pluto can't be seen with the naked eye. But I think if an object were going to come close enough to Earth IN A YEAR it would be visible with at least a telescope from somewhere in the world.

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OfflineMentalHygene
otherworldly

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 192
Loc: Somewhere...Under the rai...
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #544268 - 02/07/02 09:56 PM (22 years, 23 days ago)

yes but who knows the what the speed of the orbit is?


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #544367 - 02/08/02 12:07 AM (22 years, 23 days ago)

Has anyone looked with a telescope yet? Shroomism's always giving out coordinates, but everyone always says it can't be seen with a telescope...

I'm goin down to the observatory, bangin on the door, and askin what the hell's goin on. :wink: 


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OfflineDrSoliD
Stranger
Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 3
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544374 - 02/08/02 12:17 AM (22 years, 23 days ago)

just some brain food, putting some more ideas on the table

1. We dont know where Nibiru is coming from, so how can we see it if we dont know its path of orbit.

2. What if Nibiru is composed of materials that do not reflect light or reflect very little light, then the only time we can see it is when it passes inbetween us and a star. If we did see it pass in front of a star how would we know what to make of what we saw.

Flame me please, i want to know if anyone is for/against my theories

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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: DrSoliD]
    #546156 - 02/09/02 09:59 PM (22 years, 21 days ago)

Never mind the 12th planet, can someone tell me the 10th and 11th?


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hmmm........

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Anonymous

Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #546166 - 02/09/02 10:05 PM (22 years, 21 days ago)

The Mayans named it the 12th Planet... They counted the Sun as the 10th and the Moon as the 11th.

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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
Loc: Alba
Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: ]
    #546428 - 02/10/02 06:48 AM (22 years, 21 days ago)

And did the Mayans name it "Planet X"?


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hmmm........

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Anonymous

Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #546519 - 02/10/02 10:40 AM (22 years, 21 days ago)

No... NASA named it Planet X in 1982 when they first spotted it with their telescopes. The Bible calls it Wormwood (Revelations in case you were wondering) and Sitchen calls it Nibiru. The people that live on it have been called many things, in the Bible.. the Nephilim, also called the Annunaki, the Elohim.

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