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 Pynchon
Slow Learner
Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
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 Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X)  [Re: Timeleech]
#540990 - 02/05/02 04:33 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Could you give some details about this? Like what you mean by "variations"? I had a quick poke around at their website but couldn't find anything.
I honestly fail to see how other galaxies etc could even form if they were subject to different laws. Not to say there aren't perhaps additional laws that we haven't yet discovered, but different ones?
It would also be difficult to explain the large-scale uniformity of the universe if there were "local" laws...I dunno, sounds screwy to me...but I bet it hasn't hurt their sales any, natch...
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 Timeleech
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Pynchon]
#541003 - 02/05/02 05:04 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not going to sift through the three possible issues right now, but wer'e talking about *variations* here. Not entirely different laws. Minute variations probably, I don't remember.
Galaxies arent' subject to different laws. I would imagine this is on a greater scale, and that the laws change gradually over distance. Much like an electromagnetic field. But that's just my take on it. It seems logical, most other thigs change gradually.
And it was just a little paragraph in a larger article, so I doubt their sales increased very much 
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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 Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Timeleech]
#541424 - 02/05/02 02:02 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was reading something about this the other day too, I think I mentioned it in another thread. Our physics laws work in our galaxy, but a galaxy in a different stage is under a totally different set of pressures, conditions, variables... Things are just way too different for scientists to be sure that they're the same. 
Of course, if you put our physics system into action from within that galaxy, the physics system would also be under the same pressures and conditions and whatnot and might work just the same, although it would be working an a very different way...
Don't take my word for it though, I'm just making conversation.
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Anonymous
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Ulysees]
#541832 - 02/05/02 10:27 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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if i get this wrong forgive me, but i understand things better when they are broken down into simple terms...
so, they would have the same effect, but for different reasons? something like that? or they would have the same effect, but go about it in a different manner... or did i just say the same thing twice?
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Anonymous]
#542065 - 02/06/02 02:00 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, I'm no expert on this, but I think both of the thoughts you presented could have been right.
I really can't convey my understanding of it here... I'm sure you'd do much better to form your own opinions...
I'll take a stab at it, but this is going to be a rather crappy stab:
Let's say you're measuring a random object, and that measurement comes to some random (but applicable) number. This object would be in this galaxy, and subjected to the basic laws of physics we have deciphered.
Now, if you found the same object in a different galaxy, a galaxy at a totally different "stage of life", and under totally different circumstances, your tape measure would be under the exact same circumstances. If you measured that object, the measurement might read the same, even though that object looked drastically different from outside that foreign galaxy. (Like you're looking at it from a telescope from here...)
That was probably very crappy... Like I said, it's hard for me to convey this over a message board. (Hell, I probably have no "right" to try and convey this at all.)
I think you're definately on the right track though... What track that is, I have no idea.
Another thought: If things are so drastically different, then it's possible that they're too different for the mind to comprehend as being the same (perhaps as in intelligent life), or to comprehend at all (other than perceiving them as "cool", or "phenomenon", or "space stuff", thought I'm sure that stuff exists as well).
Ok, I'm done now. 
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Anonymous
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Ulysees]
#542415 - 02/06/02 11:29 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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SherlockDrubu
enthusiast
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 347
Last seen: 23 years, 1 month
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: ]
#542484 - 02/06/02 12:30 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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On Earth, an object in free fall accelerates at -9.81 m/s/s.... This is Acceleration due to gravity... now, on another planet, the acceleration would be different due to different strengths of gravity. In another galaxy, a planet orbiting a star could have intelligent life on it and look similar to Earth and have the same gravity field as Earth, but its accelerations would vary because of outside forces (their sun, neighboring planets)
Does this help in understanding how our laws of physics cannot be a constant throughout the universe? We can only measure based on our position in the universe... we cannot travel far enough away to test our laws beyond our galactic neighborhood, meaning NO ONE KNOWS that our laws apply constant throughout eternity.
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Anonymous
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#543237 - 02/07/02 01:23 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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We can only measure based on our position in the universe
And then rely on our space brothers and sisters for accurate measures based on their perspective
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Pynchon
Slow Learner
Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Timeleech]
#543334 - 02/07/02 04:44 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Timeleech --
This isn't the bit you were talking about is it?
New Scientist 2327:
"...the book looks at how the familiar laws of physics may just be local by-laws in our branch of a vast multiverse."
It's in the "who's reading what" section, refering to _Our Cosmic Habitat_ by Martin Rees. So it sounds as if he's speculating on laws outside our universe...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#543335 - 02/07/02 04:44 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit. Without imaginaton, we wouldn't have shit for technological advances.
Imagination + understanding + discipline + research + persistence = technology. Without all of the elements, all you have is a daydream.
So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit.
No one attacked your imagination, but on your building a theory about a non-existent object. Try to understand the difference.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Pynchon
Slow Learner
Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#543340 - 02/07/02 04:56 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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>...the acceleration would be different due to different strengths of gravity.
What does that have to do with different physical laws? Are you saying that the moon operates under a different set of laws because it's gravity is 1/6 that of Earth's?
>In another galaxy, a planet orbiting a star could have intelligent life on it and look similar to Earth and have the same gravity field as Earth...
Then it's a reasonable assumption that it obeys the same laws as we do. Physical laws are mathematical laws. If physics behave differently elsewhere in the universe, are there aliens there adding two and two and getting three and a half?
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SherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Pynchon]
#543674 - 02/07/02 12:14 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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***>...the acceleration would be different due to different strengths of gravity.
What does that have to do with different physical laws? Are you saying that the moon operates under a different set of laws because it's gravity is 1/6 that of Earth's? ***
Yes... the moon would have a different acceleration due to gravity then Earth.
***>In another galaxy, a planet orbiting a star could have intelligent life on it and look similar to Earth and have the same gravity field as Earth...
Then it's a reasonable assumption that it obeys the same laws as we do. Physical laws are mathematical laws. If physics behave differently elsewhere in the universe, are there aliens there adding two and two and getting three and a half? ***
It is only a reasonable assumption that it would obey the same laws if the solar system was the same, the size and force of its star was the same, and all neighboring objects were the same
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SherlockDrubu
enthusiast
Registered: 04/24/01
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Swami]
#543677 - 02/07/02 12:20 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit. Without imaginaton, we wouldn't have shit for technological advances.
Imagination + understanding + discipline + research + persistence = technology. Without all of the elements, all you have is a daydream.
Exactly.... I never said it was a law, simply as theory. You completaly discredited any thoughts that I expressed, and if people always did that, then the first element of your model would be lacking, making no technology.
So for you to come here and discredit any imagination I have is just utter bullshit.
No one attacked your imagination, but on your building a theory about a non-existent object. Try to understand the difference.
that is why it is imagination, I never claimed that was how things were. I also never meant "theory" in a scientific sense, I meant it as a thought about what could be. I do not believe there is a 12th planet that is going to come near us, as there is no sign of it in the sky. If we can see stars and other planets and even galaxies, then we should be able to see the reflectedlight of this planet. I know it is a non-existant object, but if it were to exist, there are infinite possibilities of why it would act in the way it does.
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#543738 - 02/07/02 01:15 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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just because you can't see it with your naked eye does not mean it isn't there. can you see pluto? no, cuz it's too far. but with the aid of a telescope you can. until it's close enough (if it exists) to see the glowing red with the naked eye clearly, this debate will go on unanswered. yeah yeah mind you both sides can be convinced, but still. unsettled debate.
_ry_
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mm.
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#543799 - 02/07/02 02:18 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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SherlockDrubu -you are getting mixed up. The moon does not have different physical laws because it has 1/6th gravity. It is the physical laws which tell us that it has 1/6th gravity. The laws state how much gravity there is going to be depending on the circumstances. If you can lift up 40 kilos and your friend can only lift 20 kilos, you are not operating under different physical laws, he just has weaker muscles than you.
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spreadhead
journeyman
Registered: 12/04/01
Posts: 60
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#543813 - 02/07/02 02:25 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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The moon operates under the exact same physical laws as the Earth. The reason the accelerations due to gravity are different is simply because the Earth is much more massive than the moon, not because gravity acts any differently there.
F = Gmm/r^2
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SherlockDrubu
enthusiast
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 347
Last seen: 23 years, 1 month
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: spreadhead]
#544265 - 02/07/02 09:51 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm aware of why it is different, but I'm simply stating that the numbers are different because of different amounts of gravity contained. I applied this to my earlier post about a planet similar to Earth with similar neighboring planets. The laws wouldn't apply because of outside factors, such as the sun affects us, their star would affect their planet. I guess it all relates to what everything is orbiting around. The sun affects the Earth and its laws, because it exerts a pressure on Earth. I don't doubt that if the sun didn't exert any force on the Earth that the laws would be different. We haven't sent anything close to another star, so there is no proof to discredit my opinions.
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SherlockDrubu
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: Blastrid]
#544267 - 02/07/02 09:54 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, Pluto can't be seen with the naked eye. But I think if an object were going to come close enough to Earth IN A YEAR it would be visible with at least a telescope from somewhere in the world.
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MentalHygene
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#544268 - 02/07/02 09:56 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes but who knows the what the speed of the orbit is?
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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: My theory on the 12th planet (planet X) [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#544367 - 02/08/02 12:07 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Has anyone looked with a telescope yet? Shroomism's always giving out coordinates, but everyone always says it can't be seen with a telescope...
I'm goin down to the observatory, bangin on the door, and askin what the hell's goin on.
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