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OfflineCUBErt
Connoisseur ofHallucination
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Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1,067
Loc: Southern CA
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Christianity and the threat of Hell
    #5120801 - 12/30/05 12:49 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The other day I was sitting with some friends downtown and we were approached by two young guys who stopped to ask us if we were 100% sure we would go to heaven if we died. I thought to myself "can anyone be 100% sure?" But I remained silent while they spoke with my other, blatantly anti-christian friends. Their whole deal was about accepting Jesus and asking us if we really had a concept of hell and if we really wanted to go there. When I began speaking, I explained that I had gone to Catholic school for 10 years and knew plenty about Christianity, but that I began to question the faith as I got older. (Now for the part that really bothered me) I started asking them about the legitimacy of other major religions like Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc. I said that I considered myself Christian but that there are many other faiths that connect us all to the same God with many of the same basic moral standards. In reply they said that these religions were all missing Jesus Christ, the mid-point between us and God. So then I asked "what about people who live in isolation and never hear about Jesus? are they going to hell?" They said that the Bible says that everybody gets a chance to hear about God. I do not remember seeing that in the Bible but perhaps they were right. They used the Bible passage "I am the way, the truth, and the light. Nobody cometh unto the father except through me."

Anyways, since then I have just been feeling somewhat upset. My friend argued with them that Christianity is a bunch of paranoia, and I would consider myself a pretty paranoid person. I have been thinking alot:
-Wondering if I might be hell-bound
-Thinking of all the wonderful people on these boards and that I know in person who would be denied eternal bliss for believing something that is just as practical to them as Jesus Christ is to Christians.
-Coming to terms with the thought that I may have only remained Christian for so long for fear of hell.
-Wondering how a God of infinite wisdom could expect human beings all to jump on the same bandwagon when there are so many untrustworthy people around, especially in religion.

I was just wondering how other people felt about this issue, and hoping to gain some insight from those who are more well-read on spirituality then myself.


--------------------
-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: CUBErt]
    #5120823 - 12/30/05 12:55 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

All of that shit is nothing but FUD. Don't listen to threats of Hell.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
listening to Mozzy
Male

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 1,860
Last seen: 9 months, 1 day
Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5120945 - 12/30/05 02:04 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

if i go to hell im kickin satan out his kingdom


--------------------


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5120948 - 12/30/05 02:06 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

when jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. nobody cometh unto the father except through me" he was speaking on the behalf of the christ mind. it means no one reaches heaven except through the christ consciousness, which has been called different things by different religions. the bible says to "let this mind be in you which was also in christ jesus" and urges people to "put on the mind of christ". ask those people the meaning of these passages and see the kind of repsonse you get. chances are you will get some kind of very contrived sounding response which is clearly attempting to deny the existence of the chrsit within you.

its up to you to decide what you want to believe, either there is one right religion and you make it to heaven based on luck alone, choosing the right religion among many. or there is something universal witch all religions are hinting at. ask yourself which scenario seems more likely.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: CUBErt]
    #5121342 - 12/30/05 07:11 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The other day I was sitting with some friends downtown and we were approached by two young guys who stopped to ask us if we were 100% sure we would go to heaven if we died. I thought to myself "can anyone be 100% sure?" But I remained silent while they spoke with my other, blatantly anti-christian friends. Their whole deal was about accepting Jesus and asking us if we really had a concept of hell and if we really wanted to go there. When I began speaking, I explained that I had gone to Catholic school for 10 years and knew plenty about Christianity, but that I began to question the faith as I got older. (Now for the part that really bothered me) I started asking them about the legitimacy of other major religions like Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc. I said that I considered myself Christian but that there are many other faiths that connect us all to the same God with many of the same basic moral standards. In reply they said that these religions were all missing Jesus Christ, the mid-point between us and God. So then I asked "what about people who live in isolation and never hear about Jesus? are they going to hell?" They said that the Bible says that everybody gets a chance to hear about God. I do not remember seeing that in the Bible but perhaps they were right. They used the Bible passage "I am the way, the truth, and the light. Nobody cometh unto the father except through me."

These two guys have no scripture to back up the notion that everyone "gets a chance". People who have never heard the gospel in remote areas of the world and die unconverted, will be righteously judged on the last day and be cast into the Lake of Fire. Every one for whom Christ died will hear the gospel in time, and be converted no exceptions. God is sovereign in His actions and has predestinated who will inherit salvation, and who will be damned. Those who hold to Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc. will not be saved if they continue in that belief until they die. I see you went to Catholic school, Roman Catholicism has nothing to do with Christianity, it is a system of lies.


-Wondering if I might be hell-bound


You most certainly are hell bound if you die unconverted and are not made a new creation.

-Thinking of all the wonderful people on these boards and that I know in person who would be denied eternal bliss for believing something that is just as practical to them as Jesus Christ is to Christians.


People go to hell because they do not have a righteousness that can meet the standard of God, which is perfection. Now no person can meet this standard of themselves, but Jesus Christ alone did this for His people. The Christian's faith looks to Christ's righteousness, this is the only way of reconciliation to God.

-Coming to terms with the thought that I may have only remained Christian for so long for fear of hell.

No Christian is motivated by fear, the love of God is shed abroad in the Christian's heart by the Holy Spirit. We have joy in knowing that all our sins are forgiven, hell no longer has any claim on us, since Christ already went to hell for us.

-Wondering how a God of infinite wisdom could expect human beings all to jump on the same bandwagon when there are so many untrustworthy people around, especially in religion.

God has His election of grace on this earth, and in the fullness of time they are converted, and are taught what the true gospel is and is not. Since God Himself is teaching them through His Spirit, no amount of untrustworthy people can destroy them. His sheep hear His voice.


Edited by fivepointer (12/30/05 07:16 AM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: fivepointer]
    #5121354 - 12/30/05 07:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Im sure Jesus died for ALL of our sins, this includes everyone. And if he did die for all our sins, then we must ALL already be saved! :lol:

If many of us really are going to burn in hell, becuase our uncompassionate God has failed to reach those most in need of help. Then i am all too happy to go to hell and suffer alongside the souls within, just like Jesus has.

As Zen master Shunryu Suzuki once taught, "Hell is not punishment; it's training!".


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (12/30/05 08:32 AM)


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OfflineBooby
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Rapture [Re: CUBErt]
    #5121407 - 12/30/05 08:41 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Don't worry :smile: The Rapture is just around the corner:

Quote:

spacedragon said:
At synchronization, each body in the solar system will release a sound, a primal tone that expresses its particular vibration.  The concerted sound of all these tones - the "music of the spheres" - will not only awaken the encoded memory of each entity but it will erase the past forever.  The way to reattune ourselves is through feeling.  We will become something much greater by moving beyond thinking to feeling.  You have learned much about yourselves by experiencing the visitors (including the creator Elohim gods, the interlopers, and various other extra-terrestrials) but now you can see yourselves reflected everywhere in creation, you no longer need them.  We will firmly but peacefully ask the visitors to leave.




Quote:

spacedragon said:
At synchronization, each body in the solar system will release a sound, a primal tone that expresses its particular vibration.  The concerted sound of all these tones - the "music of the spheres" -




...When the Fat Lady sings.

The question is: Who goes where?

from another board:
Quote:


Orbiting a star in the third position is a planet with a moon. It is much like ours, with the Exception that it is entirely an ocean, with only small islands and coral atolls.
On this planet the top of the food chain are the Citations. The main sentient life-forms here are all Whales, and Dolphins of every kind we have here on Earth. Here on Oceanis there are no people, so the Citations can frolic in the waves of their water-world free from the fear and onslaught of Human Predation.
Oceanis is a Matriarchy. It is ruled by the Great Grand-Mother Blue Whale. She has a throne of sorts. She resides among a Crystalline Astral Gateway located deep in an abyss. There is an air chamber in that gateway where she can breath, so she does not have to surface if she does not want to. The Crystalline Gateway is huge like a cathedral, and it is always continuing to grow as it is entirely Quartz.
The Great Grand-Mother Blue is ten times the size of the largest Blue Whale one can find on Earth. With the sound of her voice she can be heard to speak anywhere on the whole of Oceanis. With the sound of her voice she also operates the Crystalline Astral Gateway. Using harmonics she can open the astral gateway by making it resonate with the intense frequencies of her song. This Gateway opens to other gateways located on other water worlds everywhere in the Galaxy, Including Earth!
Grand-Mother Blue keeps order in the classes of Citations existing on Oceanis with a Knighthood who serve her. This Knighthood consists of Orcas! These Orcas are the same as the "Killer-Whales" we have here on Earth, and with one exception, they are four times larger then Earth Orcas. The Knighthood settle all disputes that may occur amongst all the species of Whales and Dolphins on Oceanis. As you know here on Earth Citations frequently have disputes, and disagree with one another, and have tiffs over this and that, particularly amongst the Dolphins concerning territory and mating. This does not happen on Oceanis.
Should some sort of dispute arise among any of the inhabitants of Oceanis, the Great Grand-Mother Blue Whale finds out about it, because she is so wizened nothing can be hidden from her, and she sends her Knights to take care of it. The Orcas come, and simply EAT everyone involved, and the dispute is settled!
So on Oceanis, life amongst the inhabitants is simply wonderful! Everyone gets along famously respecting each others right to exist, and the grand give away that is the food-chain happens in such a way that nothing ever really dies. If an Orca consumes a Dolphin, The Dolphin has simply become Orca. This rarely ever happens though, as there are plenty of everyone's favorite fish around, so everyone is fat and happy!




Odd how the fact that orcas have been used to hunt whales has been omitted from this tale.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


Edited by Booby (12/30/05 09:09 AM)


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: CUBErt]
    #5121446 - 12/30/05 09:20 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I know I'm going to hell.

Why? Because I believe in the Force.

http://www.ooze.com/toolofsatan/


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflineBooby
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: psyka]
    #5121456 - 12/30/05 09:30 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

There an interesting line in the Icelandic Edda's that goes something like: "And the ocean washed over the land"

Obviously (to me) it is the law of the jungle in the ocean


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: CUBErt]
    #5121471 - 12/30/05 09:51 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You should be careful to not get too upset by the scare tactics of fundamentalists protestants. Apply a little philosophy to their claims to see if they make any sense.

We say that God is all knowing, all powerful, and all Good. So how is it possible for a Good God to create people who he knows will never hear the Gospel, if hearing the Gospel is an absolute requirement for salvation? It seems these unfortunate folks are destined for Hell before they are created. But a Good God, who has infinite power, would not create people only to throw them into hell with no chance for salvation.

Those who claim that hearing the gospel, being baptized, or any other human act is *absolutely* required for salvation fail to apprehend God's ultimate Goodness and his infinite power. An ultimately good and infinitely powerful God can save whoever he wants.

It is true that Jesus as "the way, the truth, and the life" is the only means of salvation.  St. John tells us that Christ is the Logos "who pitched his tent among us." Logos is often translated "word", but it also means "reason". In fact, the Greek philosopher Heraclitus spoke of the Logos as the ordering principle of the universe. For him, the logos is the reason why the world, which is in a constant state of change, does not fall into total chaos and non-being. The Logos of St. John is not merely the word of God, he is also the organizing principle of reality. "Though him all things were made. He holds all creation together in himself."

With the incarnation of the Logos as the man Jesus, the gap between being and becoming, between the eternal and the temporal, between God and creation was bridged. As both "true God and true man" (hypostatic union) Jesus is like the mathematical point which is both in the arc of a circle and in a line running tangent to the circle; their can only be one. Jesus is the only place where God and creation coincide, and he is therefore the "only way to the Father."

However, this does not mean that a person has to know about Jesus to be saved, anymore than a sleeping child strapped into his car seat needs to know about the bridge his car uses to cross a river. The  twentieth century Catholic theologian and philosopher, Karl Rahner spoke of some unbaptized pagans as "Anonymous Christians". These are people who have never heard of Jesus, or who have been improperly evangelized and reject Christianity because they don't really understand it, but nonetheless love God seek the good. Like babies who die before being baptized, these anonymous Christians can have salvation by "way" of Jesus, even though they don't know who he is.

The Catholic Church (The first and Universal Christian Church), has never taught that anyone is in hell; to do so would presume to know the mind of God. The practice of condemning pagans to hell is linked to the protestant heresy of predestination, and is counter to the Gospel teaching "Judge not lest ye be judged." This often misunderstood line specifically refers to judging that someone is damned. This ultimate judgment is reserved for God alone.

Does the fact that people don't need to know Jesus to be saved by him mean that Christians should stop evangelizing, given that people can be saved without hearing the Gospel or being baptized?

Certainly not! A person is more likely to cross the bridge if he knows what it is and where it leads, even though this information is not absolutely necessary. 

If I made this any longer people would not read it, so I'll stop now. :laugh:


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OfflineBooby
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: shroomydan]
    #5121479 - 12/30/05 10:05 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Personally I disagree with the concept of "Hell" as a place where everyone suffers.

People who suffer live in their own personal Hell; and would probably like to go somewhere else where conditions are different.

There are those amongst us who prefer one type of utopia, and those amongst us for whom another type of utopia is more fitting.

Oceania and the law of the jungle is fitting for those of us who may find that lifestyle attractive.

The only thing I'm concerned about at this time is just how many options are there.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: Sinbad]
    #5121547 - 12/30/05 10:46 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Im sure Jesus died for ALL of our sins, this includes everyone. And if he did die for all our sins, then we must ALL already be saved! :lol:

If many of us really are going to burn in hell, becuase our uncompassionate God has failed to reach those most in need of help. Then i am all too happy to go to hell and suffer alongside the souls within, just like Jesus has.

As Zen master Shunryu Suzuki once taught, "Hell is not punishment; it's training!".




Right on Sinbad.  :thumbup: We need to take some stand against this nonsense.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Loc: underbelly
Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: fivepointer]
    #5121552 - 12/30/05 10:49 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
The other day I was sitting with some friends downtown and we were approached by two young guys who stopped to ask us if we were 100% sure we would go to heaven if we died. I thought to myself "can anyone be 100% sure?" But I remained silent while they spoke with my other, blatantly anti-christian friends. Their whole deal was about accepting Jesus and asking us if we really had a concept of hell and if we really wanted to go there. When I began speaking, I explained that I had gone to Catholic school for 10 years and knew plenty about Christianity, but that I began to question the faith as I got older. (Now for the part that really bothered me) I started asking them about the legitimacy of other major religions like Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc. I said that I considered myself Christian but that there are many other faiths that connect us all to the same God with many of the same basic moral standards. In reply they said that these religions were all missing Jesus Christ, the mid-point between us and God. So then I asked "what about people who live in isolation and never hear about Jesus? are they going to hell?" They said that the Bible says that everybody gets a chance to hear about God. I do not remember seeing that in the Bible but perhaps they were right. They used the Bible passage "I am the way, the truth, and the light. Nobody cometh unto the father except through me."

These two guys have no scripture to back up the notion that everyone "gets a chance". People who have never heard the gospel in remote areas of the world and die unconverted, will be righteously judged on the last day and be cast into the Lake of Fire. Every one for whom Christ died will hear the gospel in time, and be converted no exceptions. God is sovereign in His actions and has predestinated who will inherit salvation, and who will be damned. Those who hold to Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc. will not be saved if they continue in that belief until they die. I see you went to Catholic school, Roman Catholicism has nothing to do with Christianity, it is a system of lies.


-Wondering if I might be hell-bound


You most certainly are hell bound if you die unconverted and are not made a new creation.

-Thinking of all the wonderful people on these boards and that I know in person who would be denied eternal bliss for believing something that is just as practical to them as Jesus Christ is to Christians.


People go to hell because they do not have a righteousness that can meet the standard of God, which is perfection. Now no person can meet this standard of themselves, but Jesus Christ alone did this for His people. The Christian's faith looks to Christ's righteousness, this is the only way of reconciliation to God.

-Coming to terms with the thought that I may have only remained Christian for so long for fear of hell.

No Christian is motivated by fear, the love of God is shed abroad in the Christian's heart by the Holy Spirit. We have joy in knowing that all our sins are forgiven, hell no longer has any claim on us, since Christ already went to hell for us.

-Wondering how a God of infinite wisdom could expect human beings all to jump on the same bandwagon when there are so many untrustworthy people around, especially in religion.

God has His election of grace on this earth, and in the fullness of time they are converted, and are taught what the true gospel is and is not. Since God Himself is teaching them through His Spirit, no amount of untrustworthy people can destroy them. His sheep hear His voice.




IMO this post is complete nonsense. I would not want to spend eternity with people who post this kind of negative anti love propoganda. To me it's about as fear driven and unholy as humans can get.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: CUBErt]
    #5121674 - 12/30/05 11:34 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with Deviate's interpretation of that particularly important passage. I have posted on this before - about my interpretation of 'The Way' that I took from BE HERE NOW and used in a class in Christian seminary. It was the line that equated the Tao (which translates 'The Way') with The Way as expressed through the words attributed to Jesus. The majority of the class look worried and confused and looked to the professor who said: "You don't all have to be high fliers." That professor was T.C. Oden, who published some good theological books, and he was one of my best professors. He was not in disagreement with me, but he was acquiescing to the needs of the 'low fliers' (the 'Psychic' Christians, not the high flying 'Pneumatic' Christians).

Literalist, Fundamentalist Christians remain completely confused on the different levels of interpretation of scriptures, and in fact are unaware of such levels unless pressed. Orthodox Jews have delineated a literal, an allegorical, a symbolic and a mystical aspect to scriptures. "I am the vine and you are the branches" is an allegorical reference of Jesus to His followers. He was clearly not affirming his vegetative nature.

Not so clear is the interpretation of the above quotation since the Johannine theology which has 'tainted' the entirety of Christian theology has conjoined Jesus the man with Christ the anointed in such a way as to be indivisible to the theologically simplistic mind. Mark, Matthew and Luke (the Synoptic [same view] gospels) all saw Jesus as 'a man anointed by G-D.' The later Gospel of John introduced a purely Greek mythic element and made Jesus 'G-D clothed with flesh.' This is the view that most Christians have. It is not Jewish and therefore it is not the interpretation that Jesus would have had of Himself, nor any of His friends, family and followers. "I have come not for the righteous but for the sinners" is completely overlooked by centuries of Christians who bought into Augustine's doctrine of Original Sin, whereas Jesus Himself recognized the righteousness of Jews (like Himself!). These developments which made a 'specific doctrine' identical with salvation also were the source of the utter perversion of The Way into 'Christianity.' A REAL Christian would NOT participate in a crusade, a witch hunt, torture, murder, genocide, antisemitism, pogroms, persecutions or any other violent, uncompassionate, hateful thing that has been perpetrated in the name of Christianity.

Condemning, judging, Fundamentalist Literalists are heretics, yet under Constantine, their mythology-as-history became mainstream theology over and against the opposing school of Gnostics. The Gnostic interpretation of Christ as a reality to be individually realized rather than as the effect of merely believing in a mythological story as if it were historical is not contrary to other faiths. Even the Christ of the Qur'an is a Gnostic Christ inasmuch as the Qur'an says that Jesus was NOT crucified - only a likeness of Him. Of course this completely antagonizes and threatens the very core of Fundamentalist Christians.

Hindus might see Jesus as an Avatar - a manifestation of G-D, or again (as Ram Dass' Guru did) as a "saint." Buddhists can see Jesus as a Bodhisattva, even as a Buddha. But to the Fundamentalist who doesn't even know what the underlying theology is that they are assuming, or the fact that the title 'Son of G-D' is not unique - that all the kings of Israel were called that because they too were 'anointed' by G-D - Avatar, Bodhisattva, Buddha are not sufficient, not true because He is 'the only begotten Son of G-D, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father,' and of course, one then has then to accept this Nicean [Apostle's] Creed, including the Trinitarian metaphysics which includes the Greek mythological element introduced by John's gospel.

BELIEVE it or not...there still exists the alternative of embracing a Gnostic Christianity - a Christianity that is about 'waking up,' as in 'awakened' (when Buddha was asked what he was, he reportedly said: "I am awake." Lastly, it is important for anyone interested to be able to determine which level scriptures are best manifesting, and to do this, one really has to be able to discern the mythological from the historical-literal. If one can do this, one has awakened from the unconscious assumptions of childhood. Resurrection is a MYSTERY, not a resusitated corpse - the first awakening from Literalism to Gnosis, from the mythological to the mystical.

Peace.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: fivepointer]
    #5121680 - 12/30/05 11:36 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

People who have never heard the gospel in remote areas of the world and die unconverted, will be righteously judged on the last day and be cast into the Lake of Fire
yes, that is absolute nonsense.
Fear to those, who know Christ and continue their evil deeds, perhaps even in his name. It would be better for those, they didn't even notice his presence.

...since Christ already went to hell for us.
Woa, who sent him there ? Was it so bad to save some humans ? I hope he didn't suffer for that too long ?! (irony!)


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: CUBErt]
    #5121702 - 12/30/05 11:52 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

If Heaven is reserved for Fundamentalist Christians, I prefer the "Lake of Fire."  :tongue:


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: Veritas]
    #5121755 - 12/30/05 12:13 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
If Heaven is reserved for Fundamentalist Christians, I prefer the "Lake of Fire."  :tongue:




:thumbup:  They'de probably have some "killer" tunes there too instead of that pussy christian rock and top 25 pop songs lol


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5121768 - 12/30/05 12:17 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

BELIEVE it or not...there still exists the alternative of embracing a Gnostic Christianity - a Christianity that is about 'waking up,' as in 'awakened' (when Buddha was asked what he was, he reportedly said: "I am awake." Lastly, it is important for anyone interested to be able to determine which level scriptures are best manifesting, and to do this, one really has to be able to discern the mythological from the historical-literal. If one can do this, one has awakened from the unconscious assumptions of childhood. Resurrection is a MYSTERY, not a resusitated corpse - the first awakening from Literalism to Gnosis, from the mythological to the mystical.

Peace.


Please give us this kind of Christanity so we can get on with loving each other instead of threatening hell on the enemies of God.

Thanks Markos for continuing to present IMO, some truth about Christ and Christanity. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/30/05 12:17 PM)


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Offlinejonathanseagull
Cool!
Male

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: Icelander]
    #5121872 - 12/30/05 12:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Posted by BlueCoyote

...since Christ already went to hell for us.
Woa, who sent him there ? Was it so bad to save some humans ? I hope he didn't suffer for that too long ?! (irony!)




The time period from where Christ died on the cross, to the 3 days when he was ressurected.  That was supposed to be the time he went there.  When the bible speaks about him dying for our sins, it is really speaking of the 2nd death (Hell).  Everyone has to die once, but through Christ we don't have to die the 2nd death.

I'm not condoning or condemning that idea.  I'm just saying, that is what is believed in the christian faith.  :smile:


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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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Invisibleshroomydan
exshroomerite
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
Re: Christianity and the threat of Hell [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #5121914 - 12/30/05 12:53 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

During the Middle Ages, a lot of theater dealt with the "Harrowing of Hell".

More often than not Jesus was portrayed as an avenging hero who, after his death, descended to hell to kick devil ass and free the virtuous souls held there. It was believed that, before Christ, everybody who died went to hell. In these plays, Adam and Eve are usually the last souls freed before Jesus rises from the dead.


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