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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
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Christianity? *DELETED*
    #5104194 - 12/25/05 02:47 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by Gomp

Reason for deletion: "the new possibilty"



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Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Christianity? [Re: Gomp]
    #5104306 - 12/25/05 05:04 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

*Winter Solstice


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OfflineMcdoopy
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Registered: 10/25/05
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Re: Christianity? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5104317 - 12/25/05 05:10 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)



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Offlinealsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,203
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Re: Christianity? [Re: Gomp]
    #5104363 - 12/25/05 05:38 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

most likely, christ was not born on the 25th of december or its equivalent in whatever calendar was used at the time. christmas as we know it is a roman adaptation of several pagan winter festivals.

christmas doesn't really mean anything to me, since i am not a christian and neither do i wish to take part in the orgy of consumerism that christmas is today.


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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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OfflineShrewmSter
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Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 24
Loc: Fl
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Re: Christianity? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5104370 - 12/25/05 05:42 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I dont really believe in Jesus's birthdate because i dont believe in him so... thats my opinion.:shrug:


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OfflineMcdoopy
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Re: Christianity? [Re: ShrewmSter]
    #5104398 - 12/25/05 06:04 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

He existed whether you believe in him or not.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Christianity? [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #5104478 - 12/25/05 06:50 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i think the point of christmas is to celebrate his birth, its not necessarily his birth day.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Christianity? [Re: kotik]
    #5104643 - 12/25/05 08:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Chrismas as in the 25th of december means something lonr before Christ existed. Has many significations in many religons and so on. I don.t think that this is actually Christ's birthday, as I'm not sure on anything the bible or any religion has to say. Why shoul I believe somrthing that somebody else says, when i'm happy with what I feel about Gog.
And I don't really think it matters that much if this date is the actual birthdate od Jesus, I dot'n even thins it maters that much what the bible has to say, Jesus stands up for the good things that re inside all of us, that's what's important. To find the Jesus in ourselves.
We sholdn't even care so much about this "conspiration" that everybody is talking about regarding Chrisianity. We can be smarter than that and believe in what we feel and in what makes us feel and act good.


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christianity? [Re: Gomp]
    #5104676 - 12/25/05 08:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.locksley.com/6696/xmas.htm

I am a Christian*, but also fairly studied in world religions and Christianity is one among many religions present and past.

*Footnote to profession of faith: Most Christians do not consider me a Christian because I adhere to Gnostic interpretation, not Literalist (Fundamentalist) interpretation of the scriptures. My Christianity is heretical (I was first called a heretic by a professor of religion around 1974 which was pleasing in a sophomoric way at age 21. Now I am simply at odds with most people). I also maintain that I have a Jewish identity (born of a Jewish woman, circumcized, etc.) but I am an apostate (heretical) Jew inasmuch as I recognize the person of Jesus (Y'shua) to be The Paradigm for human development.

As I type this, a 15.20 lb. non-agri-farmed turkey roasts in our oven. It is stuffed with chestnut-mushroom-breadcrumb stuffing, with celery, fresh parsley and spices. My Lady's mom and daughter, an elderly cousin from Jamaica are coming here. One place setting is open for whomever (a single friend has been invited). The Sears 9' artificial tree with 'meaningful' ornaments stands illuminated at the other end of the room. It's too warm to light the fireplace today (although it was in the 50s last night) in Miami. It's an eat, drink and be merry celebration (as merry as it can be with 2 old ladies, one addicted to Percocet!) If my Lady's mom has any wine or champagne with her pills, she'll start going off with Christian-sounding stuff about the Blood of the Lamb and her Savior and so forth. If she goes on too long, I'll have to jam it (she's very bossy, and it's MY house. Mother-in-laws  :rolleyes:)

So, if people go on about Jesus' birthday, I won't be so obnoxious as to discuss the possibility of Jesus as a non-historical being, neither will I mention the complete lack of evidence about a slaughter-of-the-innocents that drove the 'holy family' into Egypt (a recapitulation of the Moses infancy story), but I will have to mention the purely Pagan roots of December 25th - the return of Sol Invictus. I don't really want to be mean, so should I silently endure the nonsense, allow the elderly to keep their illusions, not attempt to awaken or expand long-held notions? What do you think?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Christianity? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5104683 - 12/25/05 08:26 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

the discovery channel has been playing these "ancient evidence" shows lately.  there was one on King David that painted him as a cold, calculated politician, and another on King Herod, explaining how the greek translation from the whole masascre thing was not in fact a massacre, and could have been limited to as few as 1 child.

Apparently, they were trying to point out that he probably killed 3 of his sons that were rumored to have been plotting against him.

Quote:

should I silently endure the nonsense, allow the elderly to keep their illusions, not attempt to awaken or expand long-held notions? What do you think?




worst case scenario, you are called a heretic.  :smile:


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Christianity? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5105338 - 12/26/05 02:58 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i wouldn't say a thing, but silently let them know i was not judging them. it's far more mind warping, i've found to the effect that people who speak nonsense may even chhoke on their own words.
family festivities are a several hour drive for me, so i'm glad to report i'm snug at home again.

CJ
i


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
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"the new possibilty" [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #5110655 - 12/27/05 06:18 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Notes to The New Possibility

John Fahey
Takoma C-1020
From the original Takoma cover (1968)
It is Christmas all year; let us rejoice ecstatically, but. . .

Paul Tillich once referred somewhere to the birth of Jesus Christ as "The New Possibility," in an attempt, I think, to deal with several problematic topics. Among these is the following: to divorce from Christian thought several secular and mythological and / or superstitious ideas connected with the "Christmas Story" as it is added to the Gospel of Matthew and later, according to many scholars using historical criticism, copied and edited by Luke. The earliest Gospel, Mark, makes no mention of this story nor does the latest, John. Jesus himself never referred to the popular conception of his birth and referred to his mother as "mother." Nowhere else in the gospels do we find references to astrologers, "no room in the inn," mangers, or angels attending, even the littlest one. I am certain that St. Francis of Assisi way back in the 13th century while attempting to Christianize the pagan winter solstice customs had no idea what would happen to his praespium. It happened. Nevertheless, we may yet rejoice.

While the Christmas story, garbled as it is, remains the most popular aspect of secularized, not to mention commercialized, Christianity, Tillich attempts to de-emphasize and, at the same time, give a new but forgotten meaning to this presumably minor and / or irrelevant portion of "Christian" thought with his term, "Die Neue M?glicheit." The birth of this New Possibility has nothing to do with Christmas trees, presents, Santa Claus, and little to do with superstitious thoughts regarding virgin births, astrologers, bodily ascensions of virgins, etc. The New Possibility is rather the gift of reconciliation between God and man. He is for all men at all times and places.

That he was begotten and not made is most important (non-propositionally significant). But the particular time and place of his birth is hardly the point - or rather, it is a matter for speculation.
What is also important is what he said. Easter is to me much more important than Christmas, and while I may have inadvertently misinterpreted Tillich elsewhere, I believe Easter is of much more importance to him also, and should be for the rest of us. Consequently, I am planning an Easter album of sorts but, analogously, it will have nothing to do with Easter Bunnies, nor with Easter eggs left by presumably viviparous rabbits. And, as with Christmas and other seasons, the album will emphasize that that most glorious event and season is a year-round cause for rejoicing. So, let us (and all year)!

Christmas and Easter are the two most important events of the Christian calendar, and should as such be celebrated with all due awe and respect, but not underneath a pagan Christmas tree, or in a department store, or by searching for the illusive commercial-divine EGG. I seriously doubt if the Son of Man ascended to Heaven on a rabbit; I doubt if He sits on the right hand of Santa Claus. And children do not need to be told these things; it makes Christianity much less possible for them in later years. Superstition does not aid Christianity; it does not need it. Christianity is not a religion of superstition anyway, although you may think it is.

Nevertheless, let us do celebrate and rejoice (in proper fashion) the New Possibility; and let us do so with music among other things. Insofar as this album is, unfortunately, a commercial product - someone might buy it as a Christmas present - I may be found to be in contradiction; also since it contains the secular "Auld Lang Syne" - a concession to the secular calendar - and "I Sing A Song of the Saints of God" (fantasy) - a concession to my own ignorance of Christmas Carols and their adaptability to the guitar. As for fantasies, most of the "Christmas Story" is one anyway. So, why not? I do not claim to be perfect, and I hope the reader / listener will forgive this slight transgression. As Rudolf Bultmann says, "We ought not to imagine this either in the arrogance of self-satisfaction or in the despondence of self-condemnation. Rather we should believe that our true life is hidden from us. Indeed even now we are already 'children of God' but 'it does not yet appear what we shall be' (I John 3:2)." (Used without permission from Existence and Faith, Meridian Books, pg. 281.)
The songs are, wherever possible, syncopated, not because I feel that syncopation or "swinging the Carols" is more in keeping "with the times" (about which I could care less - blast Hegel's legacy of PROGRESS!), but simply because I prefer to play them the way I do. . . I hope that you like my new arrangements - they are not progressive; "different" is the word - and I hope that you will celebrate Christmas with me, and above all rejoice in the fact of the Birth of The New Possibility.

John Fahey
October, 1968

The New Possibility


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: "the new possibilty" [Re: gnrm23]
    #5110672 - 12/27/05 06:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Merry Christmas gnrm23!


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