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drtyfrnk
PresidentialCandidate 2008



Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2,961
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Linux vs. M$
#5108327 - 12/26/05 06:31 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- It's Krang, Bitch!
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: drtyfrnk]
#5108485 - 12/26/05 07:17 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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ROFL!!! 
Nice find, drtyfrnk!
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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ImOver18
FormerlyMr.Sleep

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 763
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: trendal]
#5108500 - 12/26/05 07:24 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Very lame Family Guy-ish ending, but otherwise kinda funny.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: drtyfrnk]
#5108511 - 12/26/05 07:28 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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What a troll. This whole argument isn't about politics...it is about what works best in a given situation.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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drtyfrnk
PresidentialCandidate 2008



Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2,961
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Dude, it's a web comic.
For fun.
-------------------- It's Krang, Bitch!
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elaspeinreason
psychonaut


Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 1,029
Loc: fairfax virginia
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: drtyfrnk]
#5108799 - 12/26/05 08:33 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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haha tight nice.
-------------------- Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one Diploid said: What's with proclaiming freedom by abridging freedom? That makes no sense.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: drtyfrnk]
#5108987 - 12/26/05 09:06 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I havent met many people who use linux because they dislike Bill Gates. A vast majority of those who use linux (or other *nix variants) do so primarily because they prefer the operating system and all the advantages that come with using *nix as opposed to MS. I use linux because it is more secure and has less vulnerabilities, it is free, runs quite well on my machine, has everything I'd want in an operating system, and I agree with the opensource ethic. Yes, I think the business practices of Microsoft are quite lame and I think the Windows OS itself sucks balls and is vastly inferior to *nix, but that is hardly why I use linux.
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ThePredator
Your a eunich ifyou don't useunix!

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 542
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: drtyfrnk]
#5109076 - 12/26/05 09:22 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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That isnt a case of linux vs microsoft, its dumbass vs dumbass.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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yeah.
why is the guy a hippie burnout? all linux people I've met are just nerds
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: drtyfrnk]
#5109611 - 12/26/05 11:25 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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here's an awesome new linux distro: Linux XP
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Dre
source ofincoherency


Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 120
Loc: LowLands
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Vvellum]
#5110589 - 12/27/05 08:56 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bi0, just to give you some matter to think about;
If *nix is supirior to other systems... Then why the hell is 90% of the computers not running it?
Oh and if you look good and hard enough you find just as much exploits in any *nix then in a MS product. But who cares about writing a virus for a *nix system they only cover 10%(max) of the market. Who cares to write any program for a *nix system at all? There is simply no money in it. Your next door neighbour is not going to give a crap if he watches his porn in IE or in konqer. (wait before you jump to conclusiosn and the quick reply, im trying to make a point here.)
So on to the point of "why does evreyone pay 350 dollars for a shitty OS".... Marketing and simplicity, thats all. All you do is switch your computer on out of the box and it works. No hassle compiling a kernel and building a world. It just works. And if it doesn't dail the number on the box and you can talk/yell at someone who will fix it for you.
Yes ofcourse now im going to get the "what about knoppix?". It is preInstalled and you can stick in the cd and you will have a linux system up and running in a matter of minutes. Why would you do that anyway? Does avrage joe know his way around a other system then windows? No... Ppl don't want to change there operating system. Why change if you can watch porn and write a letter every now and then? Windows is simply good enough for a avarage joe.
Windows is not inferiour it simply doesn't fit your needs.
Now before your going to flame me... I run windows on my workstation and i write software for freeBSD because that is way supirior then linux =P. If you want a discussion about that start a thread in tech and sci =P
-------------------- Dre - A source of incoherent bullshit since 1986
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL


Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Dre]
#5110640 - 12/27/05 09:14 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dre said: Bi0, just to give you some matter to think about;
If *nix is supirior to other systems... Then why the hell is 90% of the computers not running it?
because the computer market isn't merely based on quality of product, but takes into account market share, monopoly, marketing, business practices, etc - with our current (dominant) economic paradigm, M$ has a more successful business plan.
Quote:
Oh and if you look good and hard enough you find just as much exploits in any *nix then in a MS product. But who cares about writing a virus for a *nix system they only cover 10%(max) of the market.
certainly there are scripts to try to brute-force hack linux servers. however, after working in IT for some time, i'd say linux is far more secure than M$.
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Who cares to write any program for a *nix system at all? There is simply no money in it.
to date, the debian repository has 15490 programs. who wrote those?
Quote:
So on to the point of "why does evreyone pay 350 dollars for a shitty OS".... Marketing and simplicity, thats all. All you do is switch your computer on out of the box and it works. No hassle compiling a kernel and building a world. It just works. And if it doesn't dail the number on the box and you can talk/yell at someone who will fix it for you.
Yes ofcourse now im going to get the "what about knoppix?". It is preInstalled and you can stick in the cd and you will have a linux system up and running in a matter of minutes. Why would you do that anyway? Does avrage joe know his way around a other system then windows? No... Ppl don't want to change there operating system. Why change if you can watch porn and write a letter every now and then? Windows is simply good enough for a avarage joe.
Windows is not inferiour it simply doesn't fit your needs.
i'd say windows is inferior to the average users needs - how often do you know people who have problems with their windows machines? (i know i'm constantly having to fix friends and familys computers). linux, to date, probably isn't ready for the average user. OS X, i'd say, is a good blend of an easy-to-use & functional desktop, and the linux kernel. within a few years, though, i see user-friendly distros like ubuntu and knoppix to take over a larger market-share, esp in 3rd world countries, where the use of free gnu-licensed software would save a lot of money.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Krishna]
#5110727 - 12/27/05 09:48 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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> OS X, i'd say, is a good blend of an easy-to-use & functional desktop, and the linux kernel
You meant the BSD kernel along with a lot of Mach as well.
> i'd say linux is far more secure than M$.
I'd say you are correct. Unix in general is far more secure than any version of Windows... though M$ has been making headway the last few years... of course, when you are trying to patch a sieve, it isn't too hard to make a lot of headway.
The big problem with windows is that it is originally based off of a single user operating system, DOS. Unix was always designed for multi-user and does not have the problems that windows does... from the design, not implementation.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Dre]
#5110736 - 12/27/05 09:51 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
If *nix is supirior to other systems... Then why the hell is 90% of the computers not running it?
Just because *nix is not as popular as Microsoft OSs does not mean anything regarding quality. People use Microsoft because it comes pre-installed with their computers they buy at Best Buy. People use Microsoft because they know of little alternative. I am convinced, however, in the next 10 years, people will use linux much more than today - as linux is further developed, opensource drivers are released, and the word gets out.
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Oh and if you look good and hard enough you find just as much exploits in any *nix then in a MS product.
Compare how fast exploits are taken care of in opensource applications to the utter slowness of Microsoft. And how exactly are these supposed exploits in *nix even a threat if you do not run as root?
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But who cares about writing a virus for a *nix system they only cover 10%(max) of the market.
Viruses are ineffective in *nix where the user almost always does not run as root, unlike MS.
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Who cares to write any program for a *nix system at all? There is simply no money in it.
http://sourceforge.net/docs/about
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SourceForge.net is the world's largest Open Source software development web site, hosting more than 100,000 projects and over 1,000,000 registered users with a centralized resource for managing projects, issues, communications, and code.
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Windows is not inferiour it simply doesn't fit your needs.
Well, I'd say it is inferior - all things that the "average joe" would want to do with a computer they can do with linux but with security, stability, less maintainance, and zero cost.
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Dre
source ofincoherency


Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 120
Loc: LowLands
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Vvellum]
#5110873 - 12/27/05 10:40 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok so we all agree on the MS has better markerting and the succes of a particualr product is not dependent on if it is a quality product or not.
Simple question. Who is going to bother writing programs for *nix? I bet alot of people do. I even do it myself, it's my job. So what are those people at sourceforge doing working on opensource projects? Well...
You will need to eat to code, to get some food you will need money, to get money you need work or other source of income. 
I bett there is not one person on whole of source forge that can live off his/her open source project for more then a week. If you do know a way to keep yourself alive via a opensource project. Please enlighten me.
Opensource is futile (taking we are talking about GPL and no other licence). Call me a kapatalist but im gonna be happy as hell if the company im working at is going to do even half as good as MS.
Back to windows. Well if you have to fix your familly's computer all the time. The OS is not doing it wrong the people using it are. I have been running this install of XP, eeeeeh, forever basicly atleast 1.5 years. Had one BSOD for some reason i still don't know. Educating the avrage joe is the step not forcefeeding him some other system he/she will be able to fuck up anyway. If i have learnt anything in the IT, it must be that uneducated users will screw up no matter how much security you throw at them.
-------------------- Dre - A source of incoherent bullshit since 1986
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Dre]
#5110941 - 12/27/05 11:08 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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> I bett there is not one person on whole of source forge that can live off his/her open source project for more then a week
I know two different open source developers that make a decent living doing nothing more than open source development. Theo, the author of one of the BSD flavors, happens to be one of them.
> Opensource is futile
That would explain why it has died off then... 
> The OS is not doing it wrong the people using it are.
Yep, when my car's tire falls off, it isn't the car makers fault... it must be the driver.
I can open a brand-new computer box from Best Buy, plug the damn thing into the wall and start it up, connect to the internet and sit back and wait. It will be a matter of MINUTES before the machine has been hacked and malware installed. What does microshit have to say? Don't connect to the internet until you patch the machine. And how do I get the patches? Just connect to the internet and visit windowsupdate site... or pay us more money, wait a few weeks, and a CDROM will arrive in the mail. Of course, then you have to get the next CDROM with the new patches that were released while you waited...
> I have been running this install of XP, eeeeeh, forever basicly atleast 1.5 years
Hmmm... guess you don't wanna see the UPTIME on my unix server that hasn't been rebooted in over 485 days. Not just running, running all the time, 24x7 without a single reboot in over a year! Nope, not a cluster, not any expensive hardware, just Solaris x86 running on an old intel P4.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Dre]
#5111042 - 12/27/05 11:38 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
So what are those people at sourceforge doing working on opensource projects? Well...
You will need to eat to code, to get some food you will need money, to get money you need work or other source of income.
I bett there is not one person on whole of source forge that can live off his/her open source project for more then a week.
People do it for fun - as a hobby. Some people are paid and employed by the foundations that support, say, linux - Canonical for example. Either way, the opensource movement is quite active and isnt going away soon. Can you not see this?
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If you do know a way to keep yourself alive via a opensource project. Please enlighten me.
Sure: tech support. That's one way.
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Opensource is futile (taking we are talking about GPL and no other licence).
Futile? So, the fact that hundreds of thousands of projects have been developed and countless linux variants and other *nix OSs have been released - many of which are in active development - is futile? That doesnt make sense. How is something "futile" if the objective is being accomplished on a regular basis?
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The OS is not doing it wrong the people using it are.
I think it is a combination of the two. An OS that is vulnerable to spyware, viruses, rootkits, scriptkiddies, trojans, etc. certainly does not help the less-computer literate. I think if there was an OS (and there is) that eliminates such threats, the "average joe" would have more free time and inclination to learn something more.
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ThePredator
Your a eunich ifyou don't useunix!

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 542
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Vvellum]
#5111143 - 12/27/05 12:09 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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The thing about open source is that one person doesnt sit their all day, instead 20 or so people spend 30 minutes a day on it.
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Dre
source ofincoherency


Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 120
Loc: LowLands
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Seuss: Of course your solaris box will have a better uptime them my windows box. Mainly because i switch it off when i goto bed :toungsmile: Comparing the uptime for a 'server' OS and for a regular desktop work OS is like comparing apples and genetically engineered apples. The both look the same do the same but one is always suited better for a specific task. Baking apple pie or eating it out of your hand. The genetically engineered one could taste better in a pie then out your hand.
When the wheel falls off a car of course it is the manufactures problem and not the drivers (user). But if the drive boozes up or just simply looses the ability to control his/her car and crashes in to a tree it is simply a user error. The car was working perfectly the user was broken.
Of course it doesn't help if you have a illiterate user and a system with know security wholes. I give you that. But if someone downloads a email attachment doesn't check it for all kinds of evilness. What can you do against that? Unplug the user from the net so (s)he will never get the updates but will also never get the email attachments?
Bi0: Open source under the GPL is futile. GPL has been designed to keep everything open. I agree it is a nice philosofie but at the same time it is doomed to fail. By keeping everything open and forcing everyone who adds/removes some of the code to update all to the community you scare away company's which can add alot more. But don't want there source opened up to everyone. For instance if i write a piece of code to optimize how i search for a record in a huge database. And i manage to write a method that is so fast it will beat everything that is out there. I bet oracle and MS would be drooling at my feet to get my code.
If i were to publish it in a GPL project they would have a look at it and think by themselves "Yes this is very interesting yet it is stuck in a GPL project. Lets steal this piece of code since no one is able to check it the chances of us getting sue for it are statistically non existent." So my code is stolen and chances are i will never hear of it again. Kinda sucks because it is not there property and they are going act like it is. This is the down side of GPL open source. Every piece of code dumped in to one of those projects becomes totally worthless because it has no meaning to any company which can use it in a product which is more then just a open source project.
In this way GPL is slowly grinding new and revolutionary thinking and development to a halt. Because every idea that is sticked in there can't be worked out by someone else. And simply the fact that person would die because he or she can't eat because they simply suck at support but are good at coding.
And of course i see that there is a open source community and it is here to stay. But claiming it is superior to everything else is non-sense. It has it's stronger point for the people who take the time to learn about it. But i doubt it any *nix will become a complete windows replacement. Maybe in 10 years but it's not going to happen over night.
And think about it... Is diversity really that good in a world where you need to have standards? Take web browsers every browser has its own way to identify itself. Opera had the "opera" object. IE has some methods that are unique to it. Netscape has some other minor tweaks. God i would be happy if what ever code i would write for a web page would work in every browser. I would rather have everyone using IE or everyone using opera or something but that is not going to happen because there is always someone who thinks he or she can do it better and a bunch of people that will follow. They will try to compete on the market and will try to force through some new standard. Kinda pointless we already had a standard we don't need a second one.
-------------------- Dre - A source of incoherent bullshit since 1986
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phi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 14 years, 11 days
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Re: Linux vs. M$ [Re: Dre]
#5111795 - 12/27/05 03:53 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I use Linux. There's a lot of software available, and much of it is far from perfect -- but it generally does what I want.
Linux is less prone to spy-ware, viruses, and trojans than Windows. I don't run Spybot/Adaware every so often, and my performance hasn't degraded over the life of the install. I spend most of my time on a user account rather than having root (administrator) privileges - when I tried running an account w/ limited permissions on Windows, I had trouble running certain programs. Granted, I never had a serious breach of security under Windows, but Linux is more secure for a variety of reasons -- limited permissions being the most obvious.
While there are probably many programs for Windows that don't have equivalents in the Free software world, the opposite is true as well. I haven't wanted/needed any software I couldn't get ahold of fairly easily yet.
The repositories for Ubuntu (which is a debian-based distribution) are pretty sweet. Just about every program I use on a regular basis is in the repository, meaning that it is automatically updated and easy to remove from a central location. It's a bit like the Windows registry, except that it actually makes my life easier (instead of hellish).
I'm not an IT professional, but I like coding. I grew up with the C64, and I think programming computers can be fun. I haven't (yet) made any significant contribution to an open source project, but I do play around with Python in some of my spare time. It's fun. Since my install came with quality text editors and a full suite of compilers and interpreters, it's easy to play around with these things. Also, I have a number of decent IDEs on tap to play with. It's just easier to get into these things on a Linux box than it would be using Windows.
I have to confess that I was drawn to Linux partly out of principle (I like the idea of free software). I also had a couple of abortive attempts to install Linux on my homemade PC- first Gentoo, which was just too hard for me to install, and then Debian, which I couldn't easily convince to support all of my hardware. Also, the state of my present install is far from ideal - particularly in my browser plug-ins -- but, it's good enough, and I've never had an ideal Windows installation, either.
So, that's my experience with Linux. Not the greatest thing that ever happened to me, but I definitely encourage anybody who likes computers and has a little spare time to go with it. It's easy and works well. 99% of any non-game apps you want are available for free in seconds (or minutes, depending on size).
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